john_deerfield Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>I think the argument that Lightroom has X number of users so it must be better is largely misguided. Adobe has a forum for Lightroom. Apple has a forum for Aperture. Kelby Training, Lynda.com ect, offer tutorials in each app. Aperture even has a dedicated user's group website:</p> <p>http://aperture.maccreate.com/</p> <p>Each app has several books written about it. I can't imagine how much more third party support a person could want? I mean if the answer isn't in one of the forums, or one of the websites, or found in one of the books... there isn't one. At that point it becomes an issue, not a question!</p> <p>In terms of speed: have a good workflow. I keep all my media on dedicated hard drives and I have always had a decent amount of Ram and I have never had an issue. I started with Aperture version 1 on a Dual PowerMac 2.7 G5 machine and it was fine. Our "slowest" computer now is an i5 iMac, however we have 12GB of Ram and Aperture runs just fine accessing the library <em>over a gigabit network.</em> So a lot of speed issues are really system dependent.</p> <p>What do <em>I </em>miss when I am working in Lightroom? Again, I can't get my head wrapped around the different "modules": library, develop, etc. I would miss my keyboard shortcuts and different views in Aperture. Hit v to toggle through view modes. In full view mode, hit f for full screen and everything goes away except the image. hit h to bring up a heads up display over the full screen image. The HUD can be "docked" or floating, whichever your preference is. If you use the HUD as a floating palette you can press the shift key while making an adjustment (say an exposure adjustment) and the HUD fades away except for one line that you can move to make the adjustment leaving you with only one adjustment line and your image filling the screen. Not only do I love that, clients get a kick out of it too. No mess. Just the image. I would miss all of that and the attention to detail in represents.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_soohoo2 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>An important consideration is the integration into your other products and workflow. I am speaking out of ignorance because I have not used LR so I do not know exactly the level of integration it has with other devices or things that are important to you.<br /><br /> Since the poster works with Macs and assuming he has other Apple products like an iPhone, iPad, AppleTV then Aperture would make a lot of sense be. Furthermore Apple is doing more and more with iCloud and Photostream (currently Photostream is a work in progress) so again the integration potential is higher to me. For example when I want to sync my iPad with pictures it simply opens up a menu with all of my familiar Aperture "projects, smart folders etc." so it is a very simple process.<br> Finally, Aperture is $80. How can you go wrong for $80? Even if Apple dropped support for Aperture tomorrow (something people have been saying for 3 years ) I would use it until I got a new computer. Meanwhile, I use Aperture to organize all of my photos, built slide shows and for the stubborn photos that need local control I "roundtrip it" to photoshop. Apple did a nice job of recognizing that Aperture plays a certain role and that it can never compete with Photoshop. Clearly Lightroom is in the same space but I would argue for Aperture if integration into other Apple products is important to you.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 pressing F cycle thru different view, L turn the light out meaning everything is hide except the image, D is the develop module, G the library in grid view, etc... all Aperture can do or close to all can be done in Lightroom and vice versa. the fact that a community is bigger should be taken as a + when choosing a software, i wouldtn buy a PC since all my friend have a Mac, i wouldtn learn Page if all the people i know use Word... for me, the number of user have a part in my final choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <blockquote> <p>the fact that a community is bigger should be taken as a + when choosing a software, i wouldtn buy a PC since all my friend have a Mac, i wouldtn learn Page if all the people i know use Word... for me, the number of user have a part in my final choice.</p> </blockquote> <p><a name="pagebottom"></a></p> <p>This is very important to me. I use Macs, lots of my friends and professional acquaintanaces use Macs, some use PCs, I have yet to encounter one who uses Aperture. </p> Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>For those saying Aperture is running slowly, I'm running Aperture 3 on just a 2008 Core 2 Duo 3.06GHz iMac with only 6GB of RAM (the maximum supported by 7,1 and 8,1 model iMacs), and it seems to be running very fast--no complaints. I think what's making it fast is:</p> <p>1. Clean OS X install (Snow Leopard).<br /> 2. Dedicated HDD for Aperture library with >30% of the drive free.</p> <p><br /> Again, after I wiped my drive last weekend, and performed a clean OS install, I felt like I was using a new computer. If you're running Aperture on a 2GB machine with a boot drive that hasn't been wiped in the last year, it probably runs like molasses. However, I did read that Lightroom has a much smaller code base than Aperture, so I would expect Lightroom to run faster on similarly equipped machines, all else being equal.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_mounier Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>I too am running a clean install of Aperture on a brand new MacBook Pro with 8Gb ram, and it <em>is</em> slow <strong>in 64 bit mode</strong>. I think the problem might be the new OS; Lion that is slowing it down, and not Aperture per se.</p> <p>Peter</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenseelig Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I have about 300,000 images in Aperture 3 management extending over a decade now. To the best of my knowledge, I have not lost an original RAW file, but I maintain 4 copies of my RAW files. I use it daily, and PS (CS5 currently) as a huge plug-in for critical needs and Nik filters. I tried Lightroom but felt their interface and database structures were more complex. If you want see the final outputs, visit my website at http://www.e2photo.net. I really like the ability to drag and drop images into a variety of applications such as Fotomagico, iMovie, emails, Sandvox I agree that you should download both programs for testing, but I could persuade myself that the quality of the RAW processing was different. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 >>> I use Macs, lots of my friends and professional acquaintanaces use Macs, some use PCs, I have yet to encounter one who uses Aperture. Ditto what Jeff said. Bottom line for me is not features. It's who's in it for the long run. Once you get beyond a thousand images (and I'm waay beyond that), having to switch between the two programs and lose all of your non- destructive edits would be a nightmare. Impossible, actually. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_sirota1 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>John Deerfield:</p> <blockquote> <p>I think the argument that Lightroom has X number of users so it must be better is largely misguided.</p> </blockquote> <p>Nobody is saying that more users means the product is <em>better</em> -- just that it's a differentiating factor, and an important one.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Peter:</p> <p>Yes, I've seen reports of Aperture 3 running slowly on Lion installs (actually, right on the first page in the AppStore!), but I don't recall what the issue was. Some are running it under Lion just fine, and some aren't. If you wiped your boot disk, and performed a fresh install of Aperture, I would definitely be suspect (and, is the main reason why I'm still operating under 10.6.8). By the way, I tried running Aperture 3 in 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) in 64-bit mode, and Activity Monitor indicated that something was guilty of memory leaks (decreasing amounts of free RAM after closing an app), so I switched back to 32-bit mode for the moment. I haven't yet determined the source of the memory leak, but I had the following applications open concurrently, partly to test my new 6GB RAM install:</p> <p>Aperture 3<br /> Photoshop 5.5<br /> DxO Optics Pro 7<br /> Photo Mechanic (32-bit)<br /> Preview<br /> Chrome</p> <p>Something just wasn't giving back its memory after multiple open/close cycles. This is only Day Two of my Aperture 3 install, so I haven't really vetted the problem. At least in 32-bit mode, under Snow Leopard, Aperture 3 has been running as fast as I've ever seen it. I'm ultra-happy with its performance currently.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <blockquote> <p>pressing F cycle thru different view, L turn the light out meaning everything is hide except the image, D is the develop module</p> </blockquote> <p>Not even close to Aperture's full screen mode or heads up display. I have both. In any case, that is what I would miss!</p> <blockquote> <p> just that it's a differentiating factor, and an important one</p> </blockquote> <p>How so? Again, if a user has a question that can't be answered via forum/tutorial/website/book, then it is no longer a simple questions but an issue with the overall product. Using that type of logic means that we should all be using Windows because it has a larger user base and therefore easier to find answers to issues.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>To the OP:</p> <p>Part of the reason I've been so active in this thread, is because I've been evaluating the exact same decision, and only just upgraded to Aperture 3. Since I already owned Aperture 2, I was tempted by the $79 AppStore price, and decided to give Aperture another shot. I think overall, the stronger app is Lightroom, but I like Aperture's user interface better.</p> <p>However, while most of this is personal preference, there are real consequences to the decision made here. If you ever need to switch from one to the other (or, if the software publisher abandons the app), you will lose all of your application-specific adjustments. Both Adobe and Apple have abandoned apps in the past, but I do feel more nervous about Apple's commitment to Aperture than I do about Adobe's commitment to Lightroom. For me, the jury's still out, but Im really enjoying using Aperture in the meantime.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenseelig Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Aperture speed... rarely is troublesome to me as I can stamp 1000 pictures (or more) with white balance, exposure, contrast, saturation adjusts, and etc, etc, etc and be done with it in a few seconds. The fine editing of blemishes etc I am much slower than the program so it is rare that it is the problem<br> Apple commitment to Aperture vs Adobe to LR.... I would really really love to meet the person who can see/predict the future. Otherwise it is a guess. It is true that to switch is a big deal, but the solution is not to worry about migration of the legacy as the programs will last a long time, or convert image work to TIFF so your modifications are engraved into the image file. And I would guess that both company's commitment will last longer than the backup strategies most of the folks on here use... in other words the risk of losing the image is far greater than a company bailing out.<br> Try both and see which one will fit your work flow the best.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <blockquote> <p>Nobody is saying that more users means the product is <em>better</em> -- just that it's a differentiating factor, and an important one.</p> </blockquote> <p><br />Exactly. Nothing like inserting a projection onto other people to defend one's own preference.</p> Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklavoie Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 how full can a screen be? by pressing F u go no menu, by pressing Tab you are going no ligtroom menu, full image , small black frame... are whe gonna fight over how much frame whe see on screen. aperture 3 introduce level and curve... that was about time! lightroom 4 will introduce book with blurb, that is about time also. both are very similar in there option, both are excellent product. its more a question of what interface you like, what make your workflow more *comfortable* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It's the little UI gems in LR that I like. For example, double-clicking any slider returns it to its neutral position. Wish photohshop did that... www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>Brad said:</p> <blockquote> <p>It's the little UI gems in LR that I like. For example, double-clicking any slider returns it to its neutral position.</p> </blockquote> <p>For what it's worth, Aperture has the same feature!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_sirota1 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>In many respects, this is a lot like Nikon vs. Canon. Aperture and Lightroom are both fine products, are both part of larger "systems" of interrelated pieces, and both will give you great results once you learn to use them. But the products themselves look and feel different, and the companies behind them are different. Choose the one that fits your hand better.</p> <p>I chose Lightroom, but that doesn't mean you should. Don't go by what other people chose unless those other people are close to you, so you can borrow their lenses (expertise).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_arellano Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 <p>So what I am getting is that it really comes down to personal preference. This really seems to be similar to a PC v Mac, or Coke v Pepsi debate. I guess I'll just spend 30 days with both and pick what I like best. It doesn't seem that there is any clear winner here today.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 <blockquote> <p>are whe gonna fight over how much frame whe see on screen.</p> </blockquote> <p>The OP asked what someone might miss with either app. I answered. The "fighting" is by those who seem to think an opposing opinion has no value.</p> <blockquote> <p>how full can a screen be?</p> </blockquote> <p>Since you asked, it can be the <em>full</em> screen. Not a floating image with a frame around it. </p> <blockquote> <p>by pressing F u go no menu, by pressing Tab you are going no ligtroom menu, full image , small black frame...</p> </blockquote> <p>And again, <em>not</em> the same thing. Have you tried using the shortcuts I mentioned in Aperture before to verify the difference. Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing? And finally, while I suppose we seem to disagree on the above, by my knowledge, there is nothing remotely close to the HUD in Lightroom... but that might be because they don't offer a full screen view ;)</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <p>Steven:</p> <p>Yes, try 'em out, and see which one you like! The problem will likely be, you'll find things you really like about both! Here's my two top "likes" from Aperture and Lightroom:</p> <p>1. Aperture: Full-screen view with floating HUD (head's-up-display). Very pretty UI design here, and a fun way to work.<br /> 2. Lightroom: direct RAW-to-Photoshop and back (Aperture requires you to generate a TIFF to "edit with" an external application like Photoshop).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieK Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <p>Aperture's low price compared to the competition makes it seem like a gift from Apple to those who buy it's computers. When I bought it long ago, I think The British Journal of Photography reported that the Raw convertor was quite a bit better than Lightroom's. I doubt that's still true, but Apple will probably provide updates longer than Adobe will. When Adobe releases a new version, they will probably stop supporting the old, forcing you to buy the new version if you buy a new camera. That may not seem likely, but you never know. In either case, it's difficult to transfer from one to the other, so the decision is pretty binding. best, jamie</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamczyk Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <p>I don't know about Aperture, but I use Lighroom with dual monitors so I always have a full size preview on the second monitor (live). I don't know if that you can do that with Aperture and that is the deal seal for me.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <blockquote> <p>I don't know about Aperture, but I use Lighroom with dual monitors so I always have a full size preview on the second monitor (live). I don't know if that you can do that with Aperture and that is the deal seal for me.</p> </blockquote> <p>I could not agree more! Back in the beginning, Aperture started with dual screen support. Lightroom added this feature later. Often, I am working with dual screens- but the ability to do a full screen image, bring up a HUD, and make an adjustment while the HUD fades away, is simply awesome when working with dual screens and the screens are mirrored (like I might dot with a client) or if you are simply working from a single screen.</p> <blockquote> <p>but Apple will probably provide updates longer than Adobe will.</p> </blockquote> <p>Maybe. Apple ties Raw support to the OS. So you might have to update your OS. Which in turn might mean you need to update your software (Aperture). But yes, I imagine Apple will support "older" OS's. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_macpherson Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 <p>This really put me off: <a href="http://www.controlledvocabulary.com/imagedatabases/aperture3.html">metadata problem with Aperture.</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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