Panasonic G1 or Olympus E-P1

[robert_thommes1]

<p>Concerning these two m4/3rds camera options ONLY, which of the two would YOU feel to be the better camera for an inexpensive introduction into the world of m4/3rds gear? Both would come with their respective 14-42mm "kit" lenses. Both are several generations old by now, yet both still seem to get good reviews.<br>

I simply want your personal opinion as to which you would choose, and maybe a "why" or two. <br>

Thanks</p>

[ukhov]

<p>-with the same mount , Panasonic more in price balance body to lens </p>

[Mike Howard]

<p>Get a G2...B&H has them for $299! Or, if Olympus, an EPL-2. They are cheap as well. If I was going for one of the two you mention, it would be E-P1, hands down. My opinion, of course...</p>

[Mike Howard]

<p>As far as the why? I've shot both cameras, liked the Olympus better, simple as that. The jpegs out of camera on the Olympus are excellent, best in class in my opinion. I did not care for the viewfinder on the G1, very grainy to my eye, and slow reacting, though the Oly doesn't have a viewfinder. Oly has the in camera stabilization as well. </p>

[phototransformations]

I chose the G1 and would do so again. The articulating LCD and excellent EVF and better 14-45 kit lens were more

important than prettier JPEGs, IBIS, and physical size. If I were a JPEG shooter coming up from P&S, however, I might

have come to the opposite decision.

[robert_thommes1]

<p>How about if one was a JPEG shooter coming down from a DSLR?</p>

[leslie_cheung]

<p>I don't have either but I do have other oly and panny models. And I like oly's jpegs better. The other plus is the IBIS. The G1 probably has an AF speed advantage as the olys are kinda slow until their latest generation in my experience...</p>

[phule]

<p>So i guess this means you didn't actually buy the E-P1 on December 4th, Robert?</p>

<p><a href="00ZgZ2">http://www.photo.net/olympus-camera-forum/00ZgZ2</a></p>

<p>Oh wait, that's because you said you owned an E-P1 back in August, right?</p>

<p><a href="../canon-fd-camera-forum/00Z7IU">http://www.photo.net/canon-fd-camera-forum/00Z7IU</a></p>

<p>It's a shame your experience with the E-P1 and all the other cameras you have purchased, sold, re-purchased, sold again, etc. has not led you to be able to draw any conclusions about any gear at any time. </p>

[robert_thommes1]

<p>Experience with the E-P1 was very short lived. Decided then, that I wasn't ready for m4/3rds quite yet. But I'm again considering it, and have interesting offers for either another E-P1 or G1. Since both are "old news" now compared to many newer models since then, I was interested to note just which of THESE TWO cameras were still considered to be the better of the two, and why. I have had experience with only the one (E-P1) of these two, and that was almost too short of a time to count in anyway as any sort of expert.<br>

I do know that the E-P1's LCD (the only way images can be pre-viewed on that camera)is a problem in bright light. That drawback I recall very well. Other than that, it did take good pictures. Can the G1 take as good a picture as the E-P1?<br>

G1 can't take videos? Not sure just how important that is.</p>

[anna_turel]

I have had both an E- P1 and a G1, which I updated to a G3 and an E-P3, so I can compare first hand and here is

what I have to say : the E-P1 is the only camera you should avoid for the following reasons :

 

1) they don't have the plug allowing you to mount an EVF;

 

2) their display screen is of mediocre quality; you won't be able to frame your pictures in good outdoors lights.

 

3) the first kit lens was of very mediocre quality;

 

4) there was a problem with the IBIS when you shot near handhold able speeds, around 1/60 and 1/100s;

 

5) the AF is slower than on later models and than on the Panasonic. It is OK to shoot landscapes and still scenes, but

not to shoot at playing children;

 

 

I don't use that body anymore, I didn't even give it to someone else (that would be a way to disgust them from

photography). Nowadays I'm just using the battery as a spare for the E-P3 which is a much better camera. If you want

the Olympus interface you should consider an E-Pl1,

 

The G1 inspire of being Panasonic's first model is still a very good camera.

 

1) It has a lovely fully articulated LCD, which allows you to shoot from unusual angles of view;

 

2) it has a great viewfinder, allowing you to shoot in bright light much more easily;

 

3) it comes with a much more reactive AF;

 

4) it has a very highly regarded 14-45mm kit lens, very sharp and with great local contrast;

 

5) on the down side, it has the same sensor as the E-P1, but the out of camera jpegs aren't as good as those of the

E-P1. That IMO is not a reason to get the E-P1 over the G1. If you want Olympus nice Jpegs colors, get the E-Pl1/2

which have the EVF plug : you will need that EVF ! Go for the E-Pl2 rather than the E-Pl1 if you can : it has a better

kit lens.

 

6) other downside, you won't have IBIS, but OIS on selected lenses, included the kit lens.

 

Good luck with your purchase ! M4/3 are great cameras and except for the E-P1, you can't go wrong with any of

them.

[robert_thommes1]

<p>Anna,</p>

<p>I really appreciated your detailed comparison of the exact two cameras in question. And, from what research that I have managed to do thus far, your comments seem to reflect those of others as well. I've heard a lot of good things about the 14-45 lens; though I have a pending deal which includes, what I assume is, the "kit" lens that accompanied the G1's original package...the 14-42. So I'm guessing that I shouldn't expect much from this lens, then? <br>

I'll be trading a couple of older MF lenses for the G1. The deal is a no-brainer to me; as I have no want/need to keep those lenses for any reason anymore. So I saw this as an opportunity to try going the m4/3rds direction again. I was wondering if the 14-42mm lens is actually a rather "bad" lens with which for me to test the m4/3rds waters? Is the difference between the kit 14-42 and 14-45mm lenses a very obvious difference in IQ?<br>

Again, thanks for your comments.</p>

[jmkubler]

<p>I have the E-PL1 with the 14-42 and 40-150 kit lenses. Both lenses are excellent. I use the 14-42 mostly at f5.6 and the sharpness and contrast compare very well to my 14-54 lens. Obviously, the 14-54 is sharp even wide open at f2.8. Overall, these two "cheap" kit lenses are very good, except that the max. aperture is only 3.5.</p>

[ariel_s1]

<p>Both cameras are old news, and while they take fine pictures, there are ergonomic drawbacks to both. First, all Panasonic cameras (except the GH1, GH2,and G3/GX1) have the same sensor and processor, and all take the exact same photos. The only difference is the features built around that sensor. The G2 was released as an update to the G1, where they fixed some handling issues (such as locations of buttons and dials) and added video. So, I agree that you should consider the G2 that is $300 *brand new* from B&H. This is what I did, and currently have no plans to upgrade anything. It's not perfect, but barring willing to spend the $1,000+ on a GH2, it was the best choice for me. Read here for the differences, but these improvements, plus having a brand new camera with warranty, were worth it for me. Plus, it also has a touchscreen which has redundant controls, so you can use the touchscreen for the features that you like, but there are still other ways to adjust settings.<br /> http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicDMCG2/page2.asp<br /> With Olympus, the E-P1, E-PL1, and E-P2 all have the same sensor as the newer Olympus cameras, but they have a heavier AA filter, which robs sharpness. In addition, they all use fairly obsolete electronics which makes them S-L-O-W to operate and shoot. Realistically, the oldest "non-annoying" Olympus to use is the E-PL2, because of its operating speed, higher-res screen, built-in flash, respectable controls, viewfinder capability, and better AA filter.</p>

<p>However, if you're deadset on those old cameras, definitely go for the G1. It's less of a hindrance than the E-P1, although the shiny screen, front dial that you will always hit with your index finger, etc. will still be annoying. Also, I agree with Rob. You'd think that having owned the camera previously, you would know what you like or don't. Many photographers fall into the trap of worrying about equipment too much, and becoming collectors of it rather than users of it. At the end of the day, just choose a camera, don't look back, and start shooting.</p>

[anna_turel]

<p>To Robert Thommes,

 

<p>The original kit zoom coming with the G1 was the 14-45mm, which is very highly regarded, to the point that, when

they updated to the G2 or G3, which came with the newer 14-42mm version, many put their G1 on sale with the new

kit zoom and kept the older one (I did the same when I gave the G1 to my brother).</p>

 

 

<p>If you look at the DPreview MFT forum, you will see a lot of raving about that first kit lens, which is characterized by a

good local contrast. However, while sharper in the middle, the 14-45 doesn't maintain this in the corners. The newer kit

lens is somewhat less sharp in the middle, but more uniform. In fact, it is as good as the first in the corners. Also the

first version is best at F5.6, but if you close the diaphragm at F8, you'll get the same results. </p>

 

 

<p>I have had both in hands and well you really have to pixel pip to see a difference. In these forums, pele tend to

exaggerate the difference between two lenses or two cameras, what is somewhat better becomes the best kit lens

ever made and if you have to stop down one step, it becomes the bottom of a coke bottle! As I see it, people were

particularly unhappy because the second version was just not as good, had it be the other way around, they would

have whined that there was no visible improvement ! </p>

 

<p>The 14-42mm lacks the hardware OIS switch on the barrel. You have to activate/deactivate IBIS using the camera

menu for that (which can't be done on a Pen body). It is slightly smaller and slightly lighter (but only slightly). After a lot

of hesitation, I decided to keep the first version too, mainly because I do also have an E-P3 and this would allow me to

use OIS instead of IBIS if I wanted. </p>

 

 

<p>If you like tests data, you can look at the blur indexes and MTF charts at DIWALabs website : </p>

 

 

<p>First the <a href="http://www.diwa-labs.com/wip4/test_result_overview.epl?product=7111&id=327299&lid=327299">the

14-45mm on the G1</a></p>

 

 

<p>Second <a href="http://www.diwa-labs.com/wip4/test_result_overview.epl?product=8158&id=536674&lid=536674">the

14-42mm on the G2</a></p>

 

 

<p>To sum up, yes, there is a difference between the first and the second version, but it is not as great as many say. I'm

sure that you will enjoy taking pictures with the G1. It is a very enjoyable camera and the 14-42mm kit lens won't spoil

your pleasure. And if you like it there are several primes little gems to have, like the Olympus 45mm F1.8 a great

value for its price ! Or the 40mm F1.7 Panasonic pancake somewhat more expansive however. Both lenses are

extremely sharp and fast. The Olympus 45mm has a beautiful creamy bokeh !</p>

[anna_turel]

I don't understand it :

 

I inserted paragraphs in the above message for an easier reading, but they don't show up, even after inserting two

returns to correct the problem.

 

May be that photo.net doesn't like my iPad ?

 

Edit : ok, I figured it, if I want to give links in HTML, I have to add the the paragraphs codes too ... How fastidious !

[robert_thommes1]

<p>The 14-42 lens that I have is the first version, I'm sure. I got the G1 via a trade, but had no lens. So picked up the least expensive "Panasonic" lens that I could, just so I'd be able to take some shots. Got it yesterday, but weather has not been cooperative. So only took some indoor shots thus far. </p>

[anna_turel]

The first version of the kit lens is not 14-42mm, it is 14-45mm. Both the 14-42mm and the 14-45mm are still produced

and sold by Panasonic. The 14-42mm is sold cheaper than the 14-45mm when they are new. On the second hand

market, usually, the 14-45mm is also somewhat more expensive than the 14-42mm. To my knowledge, there is only

one version of the 14-42mm. The one which was sold with the G2 is the same version as the one which was sold with

the G3. You can easily differentiate between the first kit zoom (it has the OIS switch on the barrel) and the second kit

zoom (which has no hardware OIS switch on the barrel). Plus the first version is a little longer : it ends at 45mm

instead of 42mm.

[robert_thommes1]

<p>OK. I have the 14-42mm lens without any sort of OIS switch on the side. NO switch.<br>

So I assume that the OIS is "on" at all times. Is this correct? (I have no manual, but will be getting one in a few days.)</p>

[anna_turel]

1) when the G1 was introduced, all lenses having stabilization had the hardware switch. When Panasonic introduced

stabilized lenses without the hardware switch, the firmware of the older cameras was updated to support it.

 

2) make sure that you have the last firmware update for your camera. I think it is Version 1.4 for the G1.

 

 

3) You can download the G1 manual online from the Panasonic website.

 

 

Big warning : the Panasonic manual is one of the worst I have ever seen ! same for more recent cameras like the

G3. If you have questions, you may want to look at the DPreview forums : lots of people there and always someone

ready to help, the forum to look for is the Microfourthirds forum.

 

Link for Panasonic Downloads : http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/Support/Downloads/220239/index.html#anker_222458

 

Enter DMCG1K as the model number and you'll see all the list of files to download, including the firmware updating

files and the operating instructions.

[robert_thommes1]

<p>How do I know which firmware update I have(if any)? And if I do NOT have the most current update, how do I install it? I would need a very, VERY simple play-by-play before even attempting such a thing. I am VERY computer illiterate. Thanks</p>

[anna_turel]

It is all explained there :

 

http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/index.html#step1

 

step by step, it begins with how you can check the firmware you have first.

 

For the rest, you will have to look for yourself. Or find a friend or a family member who is more litter ate than you.

Show them that page and they will know what to do.

 

Good luck !

[robert_thommes1]

<p>Anna,<br>

I certainly look into the firmware update thing. It's scary to realize that I'm the computer "expert" at home. (My wife will have nothing to do with it at all.)<br>

I just got back from work, but had some time to take some test shots while there, then print them. I regret that the results were mixed. Settings were "P" and "Auto ISO" just for the sake of simplicity. Lighting was decent. Bascially any of the closer shots were sharper than the more distant shots.....all taken at the 42mm range (mostly). The non-sharp images were REALLY not sharp when blown up. Does this 14-42 lens have some obvious known problems? That's what it seems like to me. My Canon Powershot G9 and Canon SX40HS are both sigificantly sharper than the G1. I love the feeling and handling of the G1, but will have to see better results than this if it's going to earn a place amongst my gear. Just a bit disappointed at the moment. That'll change.</p>

[anna_turel]

Unless you post some picture, nobody can help you, so many things can go wrong. You also need to tell what was the

shutter speed aperture and ISO.

 

Also many people like to set the film mode on dynamic, especially in B&W color mode. IMO, things should be sharper

than with a point and shoot ! But I've never used the ones you mentioned.

[robert_thommes1]

<p>Could be that the lack of sharpness (blurriness) was from me. I just took a couple indoor shots with camera firmly set on the counter. Sharp as a tack. I notice that there are 3 settings on the G1 for "stabilization". The camera was set on "1" when I got it, and I haven't changed; assuming this was the default setting. But is "1" the best setting for I.S.? The lens has NO switch for that purpose. So the I.S. setting probably has to be done in the camera menu.</p>

[robert_thommes1]

<p>Now that it appears this post is exhausted, I just wanted to thank those who contributed. All comments are always appreciated. THANK YOU</p>