Lenses and a few other ?'s 7D

hnbh · December 11, 2011

Planning to purchase a 7D. I'll mostly be doing portraits but I am interested in experimenting with macro and a landscape here and there. I need advice (pros/cons) and just opinions of what lenses would be a good choice on a limited budget.

I'm thinking of buying

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM

Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM

I've considered getting the Canon Telephoto EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM in place of the 60mm. Or scratch all of these options and just buy one lens.. the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM. But read a few bad dust articles. Any advice?

Also is a Lexar Pro 16GB 600x card sufficient for this camera? How many pics will it hold.. and how much video?

Last question is about flash- Canon 430ex11 or 580ex11? I am on a budget but I know how important lighting is. Is it worth the price difference? I'd like to do mostly outdoor portraits and would also like to know if there are any portable outdoor lights that are very cheap?

Any links on excellent sites on how to use the 7D would be welcome =) prefer with detailed pics or video.

I apologize for the wide range of questions. Any answer are appreciated. Thank you!

peter_j2 · December 11, 2011

Planning to purchase a 7D.

</blockquote>

Why a cropped sensor and not a full frame sensor? The 5D II has dropped in price to $1998 CAN in Canada. The 7D is around $1398 CAN. Prices may drop even more with Boxing Day.

portable outdoor lights that are very cheap?

</blockquote>

Alien Bees.

craig_meddaugh · December 11, 2011

You can do your budget a huge favor and get the Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-VC in place of the 17-55/2.8. Then grab the 70-200/4 and a set of extension tubes (for macro work) and you should be set.

Stock-Photos · December 11, 2011

Heather,

I concur with the other response that the 7D is not the best choice for portraits, partly because its a cropped sensor. I own a 7D and a 5D original. I'd always reach for the 5D for portraits. Pixel peeping IQ is better also.

Many portrait photographers want a blurred background. Portrait backgrounds are more blurred when the camera is closer to the subject. The cropped frame sensor of a 7D requires that you move farther back from the subject than you would with a full frame sensor, assuming the framing is the same.

You'll have more portrait lens choices with a FF body and more (better) background blur, IMHO.

A Canon 100MM macro is a great lens and it will also blur the background nicely for portraits.

Marcus Ian · December 11, 2011

Regardless of which is 'the best', a 7D will generate beautiful portraits if equipped w/ good glass, and decent skill. The difference in price is a 17-55/2.8 IS (used, of course). So if I had to choose between a 7D + a 17-55/2.8 or a 5D2 and... a memory card(?) I'm pretty sure I know which I'd choose. Better yet would be a 7D + 17-50/2.8 (Tamron) + 85/1.8 (or the 100/2.8 Macro) On the crop, that'll set you for portraiture until you're ready to move into the big leagues, and that system will be very capable.

A decent flash and a monolight (like the alien bees), and you'll have eqp. ready to do commercial grade work. You shouldn't limit yourself to a 430EXII or 580EXII. Frankly, both are overkill for most portraiture. While many people will only use the latest/greatest Canon only units, frankly this is a place where it's easy to save a bit of money (if you need to), and do so w/o risking your images or your eqp. I'd consider (if sticking w/ Canon) a 430EX, 580EX, or 550EX. If not sticking w/ Canon, there is plethora of compatible equipment you can get for a fraction of the price. Using a third party speedlight, optically slaved, on a stand w/ an umbrella is simply portable, and runs on batteries. Frankly, the brand, and models aren't nearly as important as YOU, and your skills using the flash.

Your memory choice is good, but never have only one card, especially if you are getting paid. I don't own a 7D, so I couldn't tell you precisely how many images you can fit, but I'd est ~6-700(?) 2 16gb cards is a safe bet unless you are shooting marathon shoots. (or ~4x 4gb video clips.. about 12(?) min ea.)

As far as concerns about dust... I've owned some pretty noticeably dusty lenses, EF, EFS, 3rd party and L alike, effect it's had on my shooting? none. That's not to say that at a certain point it doesn't diminish your IQ, but that's a pretty high threshold, and most hobbyists are frankly a little more neurotic about it than they should be - often times they are the most vocal critics online (rolling eyes).

derek_hofmann · December 11, 2011

The 7D is better than the original 5D for portraits, because it has more megapixels. The benefits of a larger sensor don't matter in a studio setting. Yes, if you use the same lens on both, you can get closer to the subject with the 5D than the 7D to get the same framing, but that exaggerates the nose so it's better to switch lenses and keep the same distance from the subject.

jaydesi · December 11, 2011

I think you'll need more than one lens, assuming if you went with just one, you'd be getting the 70-200. That can be very long indoors. Without a lot of room, you'd have trouble doing full body shots. If you plan to focus on head and shoulders only, that may not be such an issue.

If you check out strobist.com, there's an article about how to set up a lightstand and umbrella for a speedlite. It works great...you really don't want to have your flash on camera for a nice portrait. I'd also recommend going with the 580 EX II. Shooting through or reflecting out of an umbrella requires more power. It's easy enough to dial down the power on a strong flash, but if it doesn't have enough power at max, you're kinda stuck.

I got rid of the 60mm macro in favor of the new 100mm L macro lens. I found the working distance to be too short on the 60. However, it is a fine lens. Both are, actually, so whichever you choose won't disappoint.

How many shots the card will hold depends on what files you choose to save. If you shoot raw + large JPG, you won't get nearly as many as if you just shoot raw alone, or JPG alone. But cards aren't very expensive, and it's always good to have backups.

I just got the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8, rather than the Canon 17-55. If you really want a lens in this range, get the Sigma or the Tamron, saving quite a lot of money, and put the extra against lighting equipment.

As far as studio strobes, I went with Adorama's Flashpoint II 620M strobes (<a href="http://www.adorama.com/FP620MPWK.html">http://www.adorama.com/FP620MPWK.html</a>) and have not been disappointed in the power. The nice thing is that they come with air-cushioned stands, umbrellas, and a case that holds everything for portability. They also have optical slave triggers, so with a weak flash (to not throw off your exposure), you can trigger them...no need for PocketWizards or anything like that right away. There's another kit that's similar that includes battery packs for the strobes for outdoor use. The kit I linked is basically the same but without the battery packs.

William Michael · December 11, 2011

Planning to purchase a 7D. I'll mostly be doing portraits but I am interested in experimenting with macro and a landscape here and there. I need advice (pros/cons) and just opinions of what lenses would be a good choice on a limited budget. Any advice?

</blockquote>

EF24/2.8; EF35/2; EF50/1.8 (or, better 1.4) and maybe if budget allows, the EF85/1.8.

Set of Kenko Version 2 of “DG” Series set of three Extension Tubes

Zoom Solution on a budget: Tamron 17 to 50/2.8 and maybe if budget allows, the EF85/1.8.

***

Last question is about flash- Canon 430ex11 or 580ex11? I am on a budget but I know how important lighting is.

</blockquote>

580EXMkII

***

I'd like to do mostly outdoor portraits and would also like to know if there are any portable outdoor lights that are very cheap?

</blockquote>

Use the 580EXMkII and learn all about Flash Fill.

Get an Off Camera Cord - a long one - or get the Canon one and make an extension to it.

Learn about Bounce and Diffusion.

***

Any answers are appreciated.

</blockquote>

On a really limited budget I would look at a good quality second hand 5D, then, the lenses would be: EF35/2; EF50/1.8 (or, better 1.4); EF85/1.8 and maybe if the budget allows the EF135/2.

***

The two lenses mentioned (Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM and the Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM) do not make sense to me as a general kit for mostly outdoor portraits (or indoor portraits either) as at FL = 60mm the minimum shooting distance would be around 20ft (6mtrs) for a Full Length Shot of ONE Person and that is quite a distance for communication (and lighting and is also a very big room, if shooting inside).

WW

JDMvW · December 11, 2011

You also need to get together with Zachary at http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00Zif7?unified_p=1 or at least read the responses there.

danielleetaylor · December 11, 2011

I concur with the other response that the 7D is not the best choice for portraits, partly because its a cropped sensor. I own a 7D and a 5D original. I'd always reach for the 5D for portraits. Pixel peeping IQ is better also.

Though they are close, the 7D sensor out performs the 5D sensor in every respect.

Many portrait photographers want a blurred background. Portrait backgrounds are more blurred when the camera is closer to the subject.

Yep. If you want one eyelash in focus instead of just one eye, you'll need FF. Then again, most people prefer to have a little more in focus than that.

The cropped frame sensor of a 7D requires that you move farther back from the subject than you would with a full frame sensor, assuming the framing is the same.

Or just use a lens with an equivalent FoV.

You'll have more portrait lens choices with a FF body and more (better) background blur, IMHO.

There's full coverage of typical portrait focal lengths on both, and it's easy to diffuse a background with a fast prime on APS-C.

(The "full frame is a must for portraits/landscapes" meme is really old and tiring...)

danielleetaylor · December 11, 2011

Planning to purchase a 7D. I'll mostly be doing portraits but I am interested in experimenting with macro and a landscape here and there. I need advice (pros/cons) and just opinions of what lenses would be a good choice on a limited budget.

If you won't be doing much sports/action photography and you don't need the 7D's weather sealing, then the 60D might fit your needs. It would give you more money for glass and lighting. It's the same sensor, so IQ will be the same. One thing to keep in mind is that the 60D has no micro focus adjustment. MFA is no big deal if all your lenses are spot on out of the box, but a lifesaver if they are not.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L USM Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM I've considered getting the Canon Telephoto EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM in place of the 60mm. Or scratch all of these options and just buy one lens.. the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM. But read a few bad dust articles. Any advice?

The macro lens is obviously for macro, and can be used for portraits, but I'm not sure how the 70-200 fits the desired goal. Don't get me wrong, the 70-200 f/4L is an excellent lens. I love mine. But I would think you would either want a fast prime (for portraits) or a WA zoom (for landscapes).

For portraits the Sigma 50 f/1.4 and Canon 85 f/1.8 are excellent lenses. The Canon 50 f/1.4 is also very good, but the Sigma is sharper at wide apertures, has better bokeh, and is built better. The 50 f/1.8 is often recommended because of the low price, but I'm not fond of the 50 f/1.8 because of the bokeh.

There are lots of WA zoom options for landscapes, my favorite being the Tokina 11-16. Another popular option is the Canon 10-22. Of course the 17-55 f/2.8 zoom options have a very useful range for landscapes

For macro more working distance is generally better, which means 100mm or 150mm (Sigma) if you can afford it. But the 60mm is an excellent lens if your macro subjects aren't skittish (i.e. insects).

Also is a Lexar Pro 16GB 600x card sufficient for this camera? How many pics will it hold.. and how much video?

I don't know about video because I never use video on my 7D, but an empty 16 GB card in my 7D reports room for about RAW 600 photos. The top JPEG setting pushes the counter to 999. It's more than that, but I've never paid attention to exactly how much more. (Depends on ISO and subject matter.) I've only got 133x cards and all functions are fast. JPEG shooting is practically unlimited even at only 133x. So 600x is more than fast enough.

Last question is about flash- Canon 430ex11 or 580ex11? I am on a budget but I know how important lighting is. Is it worth the price difference? I'd like to do mostly outdoor portraits and would also like to know if there are any portable outdoor lights that are very cheap?

You've had a couple suggestions for studio strobes, but for outdoor portraits that would mean a power supply (more $$$). The 7D and 60D have built in wireless flash control with Canon flashes, and flash units have their own power supply. You can get stands and umbrellas for flashes off ebay cheap.

The main difference between the 580ex II and 430ex II is that the 580 has 1 more stop of power. I'm not sure it's worth the extra money, especially considering the ISO capabilities of today's sensors. (I know it can be for a wedding pro, but not necessarily for someone just starting out on a budget.) Agreed that you can save some money going with, say, the 430ex instead of the 430ex II (though I LOVE the new locking mechanism on the II). Also: Eneloop rechargeable batteries work great with these flashes and don't lose their charge in storage like normal rechargeable batteries.

You can do a lot with a pair of 430ex flashes on stands. There are plenty of web sites discussing technique.

arie_vandervelden1 · December 12, 2011

How about Tamron 17-50/2.8, Tamron 90/2.8 macro, plus a large reflector.

I own all these items (plus a 7D) and they work well for the stated purposes. As for flashes, I went with used 550EXs.

JohnMWright · December 12, 2011

I found the EF-S 15-85 sharp corner to corner at every setting. It will be a great landscape lens. It is roughly equal to 24-135 on full frame. I just wish it was f/4 (at least).

Here is a portrait using the 100mm macro on a crop sensor, at f/2.8. DOF looks thin enough for my taste... http://www.photo.net/photo/14130142 I was about 3-4 feet away.

If you are trigger happy, filling a 16GB card is pretty easy. Get a few of them. And extra batteries.

nathangardner · December 12, 2011

you seem to be on the right track. I wouldn't worry about dust issues on the 17-55mm. Lens dust is completely harmless; sensor dust is more troublesome. However, as stated above, the Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8 gives you a fast, good quality zoom for about half the price. As for the 70-200mm, its awesome, one of my favorite Canon lenses, but for portraits you may benefit more from the 85mm f/1.8. For flash, both the 430 and 580 are worth their price, either will be great. And last but not least, do yourself a favor and get the 50mm f/1.8. Unless you already have the 1.4 version, everyone needs this lens in their kit, you can't afford not to have it at $100.

joseph_dickerson · December 12, 2011

It might benefit you to read Darwin Wiggett's review of the Canon/Tamron/Sigma 17-50 something f/2.8 lenses before you make your final decision.

One of the 17-50s and the Canon 70-200 L (I'd suggest the IS version) would cover you needs for the foreseeable future.

The 7D should be fine, if you later need bigger files you can add a 5D mark whatever and have the best of both worlds. You'll eventually want/need a back up body anyway.

Don't sweat the decision process too much, you can always change things around later as your needs, or skill level changes.

No one, including me (!), can tell you what's the perfect kit for you. You have to figure it out, and that can only happen when you start actually working at whatever you want to work at.

JD

hnbh · December 15, 2011

I really appreciate all of the responses.. I think I now have more questions than answers. The FF cameras are out of my pricerange. I did look into the 60d but feel the 7d would better suit my needs. The side by side comparisons made the 7d a winner in my eyes. If I'm way off please let me know. I've been doing snapshots of mostly children here and there with a 4/3 camera. So the last time I was really taking photographs it involved an all manual film camera and a darkroom. I'm hesitant to buy the 7d now because quite a few of you feel it's not suitable for portraits. To prevent the 7d vs FF bickering.. if anyone has a link to portraits done with the 7d I would love to see what it IS capable of.

I'm trying to keep it below 3k to get started. I have literally looked up every lens recommended. My new thoughts

Tamron 17-50mm 2.8

Canon 50mm 1.8 11

Canon 85mm 1.8 or Canon 100mm 2.8 macro

I could buy both the 85mm and 100mm macro and skip buying a flash. I can work with available light to learn how to use the 7d and buy the alien bees in the future- originally thought the alien bees comment was sarcasm- haha. But that 70-200mm f4L sure looked nice. Thought that would be a nice range for candids of the children among other things. The camera a memory card and all four lenses takes me (almost) to my budget. I also need a camera bag and will also purchase a cheapo wireless remote. I'm hoping this combo makes a little more sense? Thanks again- You have all been incredibly helpful!

derek_hofmann · December 15, 2011

<a href="http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/">http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos7d/</a>

"Sample 1" is a bridal portrait, and it isn't even the best this camera can do because it was taken with the 50mm f/1.2L lens (not the sharpest lens) at f2.8 (not the sharpest aperture).

William Michael · December 15, 2011

I did look into the 60d but feel the 7d would better suit my needs.

</blockquote>

Yes, the 7D is a more sophisticated camera than the 60D.

I'm hesitant to buy the 7d now because quite a few of you feel it's not suitable for portraits.

</blockquote>

To put the above conversations re 7D vs. 5DMkII in perspective, in the scheme of all Portraits you will make, those discussions are about minutia.

I have APS-C and also FF digital cameras.

I have a choice, when I am doing Portraiture, I tend to choose the FF cameras for the minutia of reasons mentioned above; and also because I also use Prime lenses mainly - and those lenses shine and give me more leverage on my FF cameras.

Whether I use that leverage with each shot (like exceptionally shallow DoF for example) is up to me and I do not, but as I have a choice of cameras - I generally choose my FF cameras for Portraiture .

Rest assured, the 7D will make fantastic Portraits – it is more the lens and the person behind the viewfinder and probably most of all the lighting.

I'm trying to keep it below 3k to get started. I have literally looked up every lens recommended. My new thoughts

Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 Canon 50mm 1.8 11 Canon 85mm 1.8 or Canon 100mm 2.8 macro

I could buy both the 85mm and 100mm macro and skip buying a flash. I can work with available light to learn how to use the 7d and buy the alien bees in the future- originally thought the alien bees comment was sarcasm- haha. But that 70-200mm f4L sure looked nice. Thought that would be a nice range for candids of the children among other things.

</blockquote>

Some factual guidelines re buying to an initial budget:

The 50/1.8:

For Portrait Photography, the additional leverage you will attain by having the 17 to 50/2.8 AND also the 50/1.8 is minimal with respect to shallow DoF.

For example, if you are shooting an Half Shot Portrait (vertical) – the zoom lens used at F/2.8 will attain about 12inches DoF and if you use the Prime at F/1.8 you will have a DoF of about 8 inches an dthat is not much difference.

For a Full Length Portrait (vertical) the difference is a little more significant – with the Zoom at F/2.8 you will have about 36inches DoF and the Prime at F/1.8 will get about 24inches DoF – but hardly a major difference to warrant buying an addition Prime lens (even how inexpensive it is) as you have the FL already covered by the zoom.

On the other hand , the F/1.8 lens gives you a 1⅓ Stop Lens Speed advantage and that could be significant if you intend to shoot Available Light Portraiture because the difference of (for example) 1/320s and 1/125s when shooting children is of significance.

But you should weight up how often this will be the case that you will be shooting Available Light and requiring that extra Shutter Speed and also if 50mm will be a suitable FL for that low light work.

The 70 to 200/4:

If this lens is in serious consideration, then (initial) usefulness of the 85/1.8 (and 100/2.8) is brought into question, as again you are duplicating the FL of a Prime and a Zoom.

The difference of DoF you will be able to create is greater, but by no means (IMO) a defining criterion.

For example, for the Half Shot (vertical) at F/4 using the zoom, you will have about 18inches DoF, and again the 85 used at F/1.8 will provide about 8inches DoF.

Certainly this more significant than the difference when comparing F/2.8 to F/1.8.

But 18inches DoF is still quite narrow for Portraiture especially if the Background is a suitable distance, from the Subject.

However when shooting in available light, the Lens Speed comparison of 2⅓Stops, between the 85/1.8 and the 70 to 200/4, which could be transferred to a faster Shutter Speed, is of greater significance.

But you need to ask yourself:

“how often would I be using an 85mm lens on an APS-C camera to shoot Available Light Portraits? - wouldn’t I generally be inside for available light shots and therefore struggling for adequate shooting distance?”

***

If you consider the 70 to 200/4 and your intention is to shoot Portraiture with this lens the my advice is to buy the IS version of the lens.

***

For Portraiture I suggest buying at least one Flash and also an Off Camera Cord and learning how to use same: both indoors and outdoors.

NK Guy has an excellent book “Mastering Canon EOS Flash Photography” and I recommend that to you.

WW

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