Fixer first = ruined film

[jeff_swayze]

Well, I tried developing my first roll of B&W film last night and made a huge

error - even though I had all my chemicals labeled, I managed to start the

process by adding fixer to my roll and agitating it like it was developer. I'm still

scratching my head over this one. Once I figured out what I did (after the stop

bath...) I rinsed the film for a while then started over - on the off chance I could

get something from the film. Of course, the film was ruined.

 

My question is fairly simple. What happened (chemically) to the film when I

put in the fixer first?

 

Lesson learned, I guess :(

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

[david_goldfarb]

Fixer dissolves undeveloped silver, so if you put the film in the fixer before the developer, then all your emulsion is dissolved, and there's no way of getting it back.

[al_kaplan1]

You're not the only one to ever make this mistake. Here are some steps to take to keep from repeating this error:

 

A.)Use bottles for the various solutions that don't look the same, different colors or shapes.

B.)Either use a diluted developer such as D76 1:1 or Rodinal in a beaker, or measure out some stock developer into a beaker. Always use your developer out of the beaker. Always pour your fixer out of the bottle. Use the faucet for a water rinse instead of a stop bath. An acid stop bath will slightly extend the life of the fixer. It might amount to one roll per gallon, not worth the effort.

[graphicjoe]

Al is giving good advice, but I would add one small point about the use of stop bath. One of its benefits is to extend�slightly�the life of fixer, but another more important function is to bring an abrupt, well-controlled halt to development. Doing so adds to your ability to control film development. Some development will continue even if the developing bath is emptied and the film is immersed in water. Putting developer-soaked film in water is an informal version of water bath development, a good technique if desired, but an unknown variable if unplanned. It�s a small point.

 

There was a recent thread about using or not using stop bath and I never understood what appeared to be a reluctance of some posters to use it. I�m always looking to control the mechanical things like development time closely and using a stop bath seems to me to be a simple low-cost way of achieving greater process control.

 

Jeff, I suspect 99+% of people who do dark room work have made your mistake at one time or another. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of ways to mess up in the dark room. But once you gain experience it rarely happens. I have not (touch wood) ruined a roll of film in several years. However I�m headed for the dark room and today could be the day!

Cheers,

Joe

[al_kaplan1]

Every rare occasion the acid in the stop bath will react with the alkaline developer in such a way as to create gas bubbles IN the emulsion which usually break through to the surface of the film, leaving itty bitty pin holes in your beautiful negative. These print as teeny weeny black spots. Yuck! Now, as to adding the variable of the water rinse mentioned in the previous answer, it would only be a variable in contrast to using stop bath. If you ALWAYS USE A WATER RINSE and always do it the same way you will get consistant processing. I haven't used stop bath for film developing in over 40 years. I've developed many thousands of rolls no problem.

[ole_tjugen]

Carbonate in the developer is the most likely culprit, not acid stop bath. Since it's difficult to know which developers contain carbonate (except home brew), I prefer water. I'm not really bothered about the life of fixer, as it usually dies from old age long before it's exhausted.

 

As long as the method is consistent, it doesn't matter if it's "wrong".

Why, sometimes I even mix fixer with developer to get a single-bath process! Possibly the only absolutely certain way to avoid your mistake, Jeff ;)

[jeff_swayze]

All, thanks for your tips/insights. You may be happy to know (I certainly was)

that I successfully developed a roll tonight. Everything went fine and I'm very

happy with the results. Here's one of the photos from this roll: http://

www.photo.net/photo/1152793

 

Thanks again!

 

-Jeff

 

PS - I LOVE Black & White!

[graphicjoe]

Al,

just to add a bit of further information: I have developed film for more than 40 years using a stop bath and never had a problem caused by the use of the stop bath.

 

Clearly both ways will work just fine.

Joe.

[richard_cochran]

To reduce my chances of error, I have a couple of sets

of three jars, permanently labeled

"DEV", "STOP", and "FIX". I have a set sized for each of my

developing tanks, so I don't need to measure -- I just fill

each of the jars and I know the amount will be right.

Before I ever pour a drop of liquid into the tank, I fill

all three jars. If you like, you can put

additional numbers on the labels, like "DEV - 1",

"STOP - 2", and "FIX - 3", though before long, the order of

the process will become permanently imprinted in your brain

and you won't need numbers. Also, before long, you'll

be able to identify each of the chemicals by odor.

<p>

The main reason I use the jars to prepare and measure

the chemicals is that it saves me the possibility of

finishing the developing part, and then finding that

I'm out of fixer. That happened

to me once (in a shared darkroom), and I don't want

to have to mix powdered fixer in a panic ever again.

Also, I find the small jars easier to pour into and

out of than the gallon jugs I usually use to store

stop and fix.

<p>

<cite>What happened (chemically) to the film when I put in the fixer first?</cite><br>

Try it with a piece of leader. Anytime I show someone new how

to develop film, I always run the leader

through the chemicals in daylight simultaneously with the

actual film in the tank, so they can see what's going

on during each of the steps. Obviously, the leader is fully

exposed, so you can't get a good image. But you can put one

single drop of developer on the center of the leader, so that after

it gets fixed, it'll have a developed part and a clear part.

<p>

You've had the correct answer,

the silver halide was dissolved away before it had a

chance to develop.

[don_sigl]

Just one comment on the stop bath issue:

 

I never use stop baths for film development with pyro developing agents. I do not use acid fixers for the same reason. The staining effect of pyro is diminished by both, so I avoid them.

 

Glycin based film developers in combination with an acetic acid stop bath will also cause considerable pin hole problems. In which case a citric acid bath can be used.