Would you want a product that could do this?

[ryan_warner]

<p>I'm just trying to get a feel for the desire of a product that I'm working on. It's been no small task to this point, and lets just say to continue I need to be convinced that it's worth my time. So, I'm asking this question or various forums to help judge the interest from the film community.<br>

What if you could record digital images with your film camera? I know it's been tried before but I feel my approach is a bit different. Imagine being able to simply place this device on the back of your film camera and shoot digital images, then quickly swap back to film. Is that a product that you would want to buy? How much would you be willing to pay?<br>

I'm not talking about a device that could replicate the quality of film, or the simple joy of film, but rather a tool that you could use in place of film. Something you could use to inexpensively put that film camera to use.<br>

You could use this device to sharpen your rangefinder skills, to learn how to better implement the use of your rangefinder. I mainly have rangefinders in mind due to the fact that if you want to use that old SLR (with a removable lens) you can just buy an adapter for your DSLR body. If I plan to provide this type of device for that market I think the price point would have to be less or equal to an Infinity Converter.<br>

So what do you think?</p>

<p>Ryan</p>

[mike dixon]

". . . a product that I'm working on."

 

Does that mean you've been thinking about what the product should be? Or that you're an engineering genius who sees a way to actually create a functioning product at a reasonable price? If it's the former, look up "Silicon Film."

[ryan_warner]

<p>Yes and no. Yes I have thought about what the product should be, and no, not an engineering genius by any stretch of the imagination, but rather a tinkerer.<br>

Yeah I've done a little research on Silicon Film and from what I can tell they wanted to replace 35mm film with a digital system. One of the many issue they ran into was the cost of a digital sensor that would replicate 35mm film results...at least that's how I understand it?<br>

Again, I don't think replacing 35mm film with a digital sensor will happen for quite some time, at least not cost effectively. This device would not replace 35mm film but rather provide you with a cheap alternative, or another creative outlet.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Well replacing 35mm film with a digi back was done quite a while ago, like a couple of decades, see:<br>

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/Kodak/index1.htm#460</p>

<p>Not sure what a used one will sell for these days, probably under $100 if you are lucky.</p>

<p>Now if you could make a back to fit a F3 or F4 and have better resolution than say a D700 and at a lower cost, you might sell a few hundred units.<br>

No idea how you would make it fit the older Leicas where you slide the film down in between the film gate and the pressure plate. :(</p>

<p> </p>

[ryan_warner]

<p>Holy Balls is that thing huge! I don't know if you could make on to fit the F3 or F4 and have better resolution then the D700. The cost of the actual digital sensor would be astronomical.</p>

<p>Well I do have a solution for the limited space between the film gate and the pressure plate...although it does need some fine tuning.</p>

<p>Again I'm not talking about replacing film with digital, I'm talking about an alternative...a low cost and lower quality then 35mm alternative.</p>

[henryp]

<blockquote>

<p>Yeah I've done a little research on Silicon Film and from what I can tell they wanted to replace 35mm film with a digital system. One of the many issue they ran into was the cost of a digital sensor that would replicate 35mm film results...at least that's how I understand it?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I saw their demo at a PMA trade show. Their product was an insert that went inside the back of a film camera and across the film plane. It generated a lot of interest at first.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /><strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>"Imagine being able to simply place this device on the back of your film camera and shoot digital images, then quickly swap back to film." If this is to be done in mid roll, then we are speaking of interchangeable backs with dark slides.<br>

"I'm talking about an alternative...a low cost and lower quality then [than] 35mm alternative." If the quality of the images recorded is lower than what current cameras offer, you will find a market only among those who wish to "sharpen [their] rangefinder skills". This sounds much like a flight simulator. I don't know how many RFDR users will buy such a device. I shan't, never mind how low the price.</p>

[SCL]

<p>I think your imagination is running wild at this juncture. The Silicon Film debacle is pretty illustrative of the types of difficulties faced. Today, any photographer worth his salt is going to want resolution to at least match the best out there (not in MF size, but rather current sizes...the D700 is one example, as is the now discontinued Leica DMR), at a cost considerably less than the price of a new digital body. Many of us who have film bodies, have been able to acquire the best of the best due to extraordinarily low prices in some cases. If you could do the job for $300 for the Leica M series RF cameras, the Canon FD, the Nikon F, and Olympus OM series I'd be a happy camper. A tinkerer/engineer named Huw, tried for about a year to just get a working digital sensor into a Leica M body, and reported his progress on a forum, but has been silent as the project neared completion over a year ago. To construct a device which can be substituted for film, produce the required results, and be economically feasible, even for a team of engineers with access to the latest electronics seems well beyond the reach at the present time. I wish you good luck, but suggest you don't quit your day job.</p>

[ryan_warner]

<p>Thanks for all the input, I greatly appreciate it.</p>

<p>I agree that to replace 35mm film with this system is out of the question. Like I've said it will be more of a lower quality then say a D700. It is currently capable of 5mp images.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>You said long ago that you're not out to replace 35mm, so no one expects that. This mention of megapixels, however, is at last something tangible. You will probably have at least a small market if you can buy <em></em> RF cameras <em>cheaply</em> and turn them into digital <em>at low cost</em>. Specifically, they should cost much less than today's 10 (or more) MP digicams. They can overcome the disadvantage of size only if they are really inexpensive: unlike anything that exists at this time. Having got 10" by 8" prints from a 4MP device, I know that 5MP can give usable results. It has to be seen how you manage the "crop factor" with lenses of focal lengths between 35mm and 45mm. Can't really say how many people will want cameras that can only do close-up shots of the moon. I assume here that you won't use some kind of dramatically cheap full frame sensor.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Once upon a time, this could have been viable. Back when everybody was still shooting film and thinking about going digital.</p>

<p>Today, I think the market would be restricted to a few old cranky antiquarians like me, who probably couldn't afford it anyhow.</p>

[sergio_ortega7]

<p>We've all seen this kind of vaporware over the years, ever since digital cameras began to replace film. Here's one version: <a href="http://www.petapixel.com/2011/04/04/35mm-cartridge-that-transforms-film-cameras-into-digital/">http://www.petapixel.com/2011/04/04/35mm-cartridge-that-transforms-film-cameras-into-digital/</a></p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Yup, the Leica DMR is the first camera I thought of. I'm not sure I'd be as interested in it for 35mm, but would be for a Hasselblad V system.</p>

[HarryBaker]

<p>A few years ago (pre-M8) one of our forum members was trying to engineer a digital sensor into an M rangefinder. We all followed his progress with interest but then all went quiet and in any case the M8 appeared. Can anyone remember who it was?</p>

[mike dixon]

Huw Finney: http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=480578

[HarryBaker]

<p>Thanks for this, Mike. Huw hasn't posted much in the past few years.</p>

[ilkka]

<p>I would certainly be interested in something like the Silicon Film. I understand its shortcomings then, but a lot of time has passed and technology has improved. For me it would not have to be the best in the market, but the sensor should be fairly large, no need for full frame but APS or Canon crop, even 4/3 crop could be okay. I would not want a 6x8mm sensor in the middle of the film plate. Resolutionwise, 6-8Mp would be nice, anything more an icing. I would not buy a device like that for learning to use a rangefinder. I would buy it to make images. So the quality would have to be reasonable. Considering that Ricoh GXR APS sensor with M lens mount in front of it costs about $800, I would be willing to pay similar price for a similar device if it fits into existing film cameras. Six Mp one could be $400-500 if it is good and works well. Seriously. </p>