What does everyone charge for portraits?

[studio460]

<p>I just happened to mention to a co-worker today that I was starting to shoot stills professionally. She said, "Oh, could you shoot a portrait of my son--I'll pay you the same rate I was going to pay the other photographer who just cancelled on me, $300." I agreed. The son is an infant, so there will likely be a number of mother-son portraits taken as well.</p>

<p>While I thought that seemed a fair price, it's considerably less than my standard day-rate for television camerawork. I certainly wouldn't have shot it for any less, plus the fact that the client lives 45 minutes away. The shoot should take only take about an hour--two at most. Add drive time, that's a half-day. But for a non-commercial client, $300 seems reasonable. On the other hand, I know that actors are willing to pay $500-$700 for a half-day of shooting for headshots, but their interests more commercial. For "retail" customers (non-actors), I would guess that the rate would range somewhere from about $300-$500 per "sitting." I'm in the Los Angeles market. Thanks for any replies!</p>

[mike_earussi1]

<p>The question is do you think your skills as a portrait photographer are as good as your skills as a headshot photographer? If they are then how much you should charge is how much you think your services, skills, and time are worth. If you think $500 is closer than $300 then charge that. If potential clients like what you produce they'll pay it, if they don't they won't. </p>

[studio460]

<p>As I said in another thread, I've found that photographers' day rates are all over the map. I was just wondering what the average portait customer is willing to pay. Since every actor I've talked to told me that it costs $500 for headshots, I would start there. I just didn't know if non-actors were willing to pay that.</p>

[Damon DAmato]

<p>Ralph, I don't have an answer about rates, but comparing your day rate as a cinematographer and your fee as a photographer is a bit of an apples and oranges thing.</p>

<p>When you're at your day job, you pretty much punch a clock and the producers own everything you've shot. As a photographer, you will own files or negs and the copyright-- the right to make prints-- unless you sign them away to the client. So your sitting fee, under this business model, is only part of the cost for the client. Any prints will also come through you with you taking an extra fee. It's very different from a day rate on a show, so take the responses here with that in mind.</p>

<p>Also, ask what the actors getting for $500. Is it a stack of 8x10's, or some computer files? Does the photographer transfer the copyright to the actor?</p>

<p>Of course, you don't have to follow the standard business model of making money on prints, and can flat rate the portrait, or you can give them the files for the money, or any other deal you want to make, But that's one reason why rates don't add up.</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>Rates are pretty easy to check. The combination of the economy and the number of photographers whose income has dropped in other areas (e.g., stock) has resulted in fairly low rates. The $500 number probably includes the MUA and stylist. Rates for quality, experienced photographers run about $300 a shoot these days.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Damon said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Ralph, I don't have an answer about rates, but comparing your day rate as a cinematographer and your fee as a photographer is a bit of an apples and oranges thing.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Clearly, that's why I'm a bit in the dark in all of this!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>When you're at your day job, you pretty much punch a clock and the producers own everything you've shot.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yup! I shoot it, drop it off at ingest, and forget about it!</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Also, ask what the actors getting for $500. Is it a stack of 8x10's, or some computer files? Does the photographer transfer the copyright to the actor?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's typically a cash exchange for a DVD of all files with unlimited rights. Typically, the rights are shared (so that the photographer can use the headshots on his own zed card or portfolio).</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Of course, you don't have to follow the standard business model of making money on prints, and can flat rate the portrait, or you can give them the files for the money, or any other deal you want to make, But that's one reason why rates don't add up.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, I'd prefer to flat-rate everything. In the digital age, it may becoming less-common to sell "prints." Most models' portfolios these days are built by "TFCD" (trade for CD) exchanges, with unlimited rights for both. Thanks for your comments!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Jeff said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The $500 number probably includes the MUA and stylist.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Wow! Most MUAs I know <em>start</em> at $500/day!</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Rates for quality, experienced photographers run about $300 a shoot these days.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good to know! Thanks for your comments!</p>

[Damon DAmato]

<blockquote>

<p>Wow! Most MUAs I know <em>start</em> at $500/day!</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I've heard of headshot people who will book hair and makeup for the day, and make appointments for several sittings, but I'm not sure if that's how all of them work.</p>

[marc_david]

<p>300$ sounds about right for a 2 hour shoot (150$/hr)... in studio (your own). In Toronto, the rate for location family portrait sessions is 300$ an hour, 450$ if it's a special occasion/specialty shoot ie. very large groups etc. Depending on how far the location is, you might charge for travel. This could depend on whether you anticipate to take a big print order or not...</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Wow! Most MUAs I know <em>start</em> at $500/day!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Two things - 1) as someone pointed out, a whole day isn't required, especially if it's a half day shoot, which is what you were talking about, and 2) you say you are coming from the television side, and my experience has been that people used to do makeup for that often charge far more.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>300$ sounds about right for a 2 hour shoot (150$/hr)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for your input, Marc! Hearing the same $300 figure from several sources helps a lot. I guess the magic number is . . . $300!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Jeff said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>. . . you say you are coming from the television side, and my experience has been that people used to do makeup for that often charge far more.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>True. Those people make bank: $500-$1,500/day, plus a $50 kit fee.</p>

[marc_david]

<p>Careful, I said 300$ for 2 hours(150$/hr) IN STUDIO. On location is 300$ an hour.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>Careful, I said 300$ for 2 hours(150$/hr) IN STUDIO. On location is 300$ an hour.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Awesome! That's even better! Thank you!</p>

 

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>In Toronto, the rate for location family portrait sessions is 300$ an hour, 450$ if it's a special occasion/specialty shoot ie. very large groups etc.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In fact, you did say that. These are great guidelines. I may not be able charge that much to every client, but at least I now know that working pros <em>are</em> charging that much, and I that I can now make more informed negotiations. Thank you again for sharing your business practices--much appreciated!</p>

[mariosforsos]

<p>While charging by the hour may make sense for a lot of shoots, some types of shoots tend to be more standardised, and portraits tend to be one of them. However, most photogs will differentiate based on location (i.e. a fixed value for shoots within, say, 30miles, with additional charges coming online as the distance increases).</p>

<p>Additional services are usually quoted as whole different packages rather than as distinct add-ons (so you'll rarely find a separate rate for MUA for such shoots - you'll usually find a rate for a shoot excluding AND including MU) - most photographers who offer those services have special agreements (most, ongoing) with MUAs and can therefore offer "lower" prices than, say, a day-rate for a dedicated MUA.</p>

<p>And again, NO, photographer rates are, statistically and mostly, NOT all over the place. There is a certain reason and structure behind them, even if you do not know it.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marios said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>While charging by the hour may make sense for a lot of shoots, some types of shoots tend to be more standardised, and portraits tend to be one of them. However, most photogs will differentiate based on location (i.e. a fixed value for shoots within, say, 30miles, with additional charges coming online as the distance increases).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for your comments. Having more information is certainly better. Most of the photographers I've talked to are primarily event shooters for wire services (AP, Getty/WireImage, Reuters, etc.), unit photographers (behind-the-scenes), or are very high-end editorial/cover photographers, so I have a fairly narrow knowledge base of rate structures of what is quite a broad industry. Thanks again for your post--very helpful!</p>

[erin_mathias]

<p>Does your $300 include any prints, digital images, etc? Many portrait photographers package session fee with a rate. Also, they may have part of the $300 go as a credit towards prints. </p>

[studio460]

<p>Erin:</p>

<p>You know, I didn't even think to ask. I assume it's simply an exchange for a CD with all files included, plus unlimited rights. That's how it works with models' TFCD (trade for CD) exchanges when building their books, anyway. I'll just refer her to A&I in Hollywood. Their rates are super-affordable for one of the best Type-C, laser-based, chromogenic printers out there--a Durst Lambda.</p>

[marc_david]

<p>I suggest you don't give a CD with all the images on it. A: you're not making any money on the actual product... The shoot fee is merely to cover your time for shooting. Where you'll actually make money shooting portraits is selling prints (I'm taking in terms of children's portraits etc) For corporate work, you may be selling files, but you should still be charging something for each file. B:Retouching is extremely important in a good portrait, and giving your work out unfinished is probably not the best idea... Also, in order to print well, files need to be resized/sharpened/ profiled etc. What if they go and print an unretouched close up to 30x40? If you want to make a living, you can't give anything out for free...</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Retouching is extremely important in a good portrait, and giving your work out unfinished is probably not the best idea... Also, in order to print well, files need to be resized/sharpened/ profiled etc.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for your comments, Marc. Yes, now that you mention it, you're absolutely right. Plus, the fact that these tasks are likely beyond most customers' skill/interest level. This is a kind of a favor to a friend, and to acquire yet another paid shooting experience. I'll likely not do these types of portraits that often, but it's good to hear how everyone approaches these kinds of jobs. Since she's a friend, I'll likely color-correct/re-touch her selected images at no additional fee, plus hold her hand as she orders the prints through A&I.</p>

<p>I think models/actors may be a bit more knowledgable about where to go after the initial photo session (re-touching, graphic design, page layout, pre-press, printing, etc.). Or, now that I think about, perhaps not. With the last TFCD model I shot with, all she wanted was the CD full of files. Actually, her files looked pretty good, and didn't appear to require any gross color correction or re-touching that I noticed. As for selling prints, I'd prefer to simply hire out for a day rate. But, maybe once I acquire some sort of client base, I'll buy into one of those websites that automate the ordering process for prints, and go with that. Thanks for your advice--much appreciated!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>For corporate work, you may be selling files, but you should still be charging something for each file.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Really? I thought they would generally just be buy-outs, especially if the day rate is decent. When I worked in corporate marketing, whenever I hired still photographers and models for shoots for magazine ads and brochures, I had everyone sign buy-out releases. Suppose you hire out at a good day rate, what would be the median rate for selling the files? Assuming usage is for just web, and a branded, published book (like a super-fancy version of a brochure, but in a bound, hardcover, book form), but no national magazine ads or anything.</p>

[marc_david]

<p>Corporate and editorial are totally different. I don't have much experience with editorial but in my limited experience they pay a day rate and then get the selected files, but only for editorial use, nothing commercial/advertising related. As for corporate work, there is a day rate for the shooting, and then depending on how we break it down, they either pay per file and we bill the retouching separately (if they need to to see each line item), or we package the file and retouching in a package. Here's an example:<br>

6 corporate headshots on location:<br>

Half day rate(4hrs): 1200$ (incl. travel+ set up)<br>

6 file packages, each with three retouched versions of ONE file for different applications (ie TIFF,Jpeg, small Jpeg). These packages include retouching: 200$/ea.: 1200$<br>

OR you break this down as line items. 6 file packages, 100$ ea.<br>

4 hrs retouching: 150$/hr.<br>

If they want more files they have to pay for them based on the same structure.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Here's an example . . .</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Marc--thank you for that very detailed reply! I really appreciate you sharing your fee schedule--it will certainly help those just starting out (including me) on how to best structure their own rates. I'm sure this information will be of great value to others here as well.</p>

<p>I spoke with another photographer recently who explained quite a lot about typical hourly rates, and the licensing fees in this specific market (Los Angeles) for the types of shoots I'm seeking. Fees were pretty much what I thought they were, if not a bit higher than I thought, and similar to yours: $200-$300/hour, plus any expenses. All licensing is charged on top of that. But for corporate clients, often no licensing is charged, and all files are simply turned over to the client as long as the images are for internal use only. Thanks again for your comments!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Marc said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>4 hrs retouching: 150$/hr.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks again! That answers the question I asked in another thread!</p>