Consumer Reports ranking of 60D vs 7D

[mark_stevens9]

<p>I just don't read CR. It's only a single source, and the internet is free and full of many sources of pro AND user reviews. I read a great deal online when getting ready to make a big purchase. Almost always a general consensus emerges, and after considering MY wants/needs and resources, I make the purchase. That has yet to steer me wrong be it cameras, computers, or even cars.<br>

The 7D IS hands down better in so many ways to the 60D. And it should be for the price. CR is full of manure.</p>

[yakim_peled1]

<blockquote>

<p>Do you think your Aunt Millie (typical Consumer) needs a 7D to take Facebook photos?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think that Aunt Millie would be happiest with the 600D. Everything she needs (and more) in a smaller, lighter and cheaper body.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>LOL you bunch of fools! <em>*Their* VF is the LCD!</em> ;-) duh! and in respect to that the 60D has a far better "VF", it comes out and pivots, and spins little pieroets, all for $700 less...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Surely you are joking, right? I mean, they can't be <em>that</em> dumb.</p>

<p>Happy shooting,<br>

Yakim.</p>

[kezia]

<p>The internet is free and an amazing resource, and I use it a lot, but it is also littered with concealed ads posing as consumer opinions and a consensus built on "competitive snobbery". CR gets it wrong quite a lot, but they also occasionally have a way of cutting through a lot of prejudices. Why not rate a swivel lcd + average viewfinder higher than an amazing viewfinder with no swivel lcd? Yes, it's just a single source, one opinion, but also a legitimate argument. I still mourn the loss of some features of my fixed lens Sony 717. It did none of the things a modern compact is supposed to do (such as fit in my pocket - it was an indestructible metal-clad beast). Nor was it a "professional" camera with its small sensor, but the whole lens swivelled, meaning that I could jam the whole camera against a wall as a tripod and swivel the lens while monitoring the composition in the lcd (also useful in small rooms as well). With that camera I learned to use creative angles for my shots and in the street mainly used it at waist level, jammed into my tummy to keep it steady (you can't do that with current swivel lenses; they aren't sturdy enough). Its huge lens was f2 throughout its zoom, and I never worried about not being able to put it in my pocket because unfolded it sat flat against my hip and never got in the way (unlike a regular DSLR carrying a large zoom that sticks out at 90 degrees and has to be constantly protected).<br>

My point is that sources such as CR in the US and Which? in the UK are useful for being able to ignore the in-built assumptions of the enthusiast and professional photographer. They won't always get it right, and certainly can never get it right for everybody, but I don't agree that they are full of manure.<br>

PS We are now on our third Volvo, and although we have loved them all they have without exception all needed some kind of repair every year. Our 17-year-old Toyota Corolla has cost us a couple of hundred euros in all those years of steady driving. And I know, it's one experience and not statistically significant.</p>

[paulie_smith1]

<p>Might be interesting to see them compare the 1DMkIV and 60D for soccer mom sports photography?</p>

[michael_p.1]

<p>I agree that CR is trying to guide the average consumer. Whether cars, appliances, or ketchup, CR is a useful starting point. It is a research tool to help a consumer get educated. It serves that function well. It does not replace a consumer actually thinking about their needs, how they will use the product, or their budget. Enjoy your 7D!</p>

[DickArnold]

Recently a friend asked me to make a choice for her between a 60D and a 7D. Now obviously the 7D is a better camera. However, she just had a baby and the main use for her and her husband was to picture the baby. Neither one of them knows much about photography. I suggested she buy the 60D because in my mind she would never use the additional capability of the 7D. I think that was a better choice for that paticular consumer. I did use her 60D for a bit at a swimming meet and I got perfectly acceptable pictures from it with her kit lens. I put my 70-200L on it and got better pictures.

[mike_levitt]

<p>All I can say is that I had a 7D and hated it. Got a 60 D and loved it. Just feels better, flash metering is the best ever for canon, and the image quality is excellent. Bought it to use as a remote camera, but I enjoy it just as a camera as well. I am a pro who generally shoots with mk4 and mk3s....</p>

[dzaebst]

<p>Very interesting responses. I must admit I expected more of a discussion of the relative merits of the 60D and the 7D, rather than a discussion of the general merits of CU and CR. </p>

<p>@ several responders who generally trashed CU and CR: I do think CU has its place, but their guidance has to be for the general public, not for dedicated enthusiasts. I have often consulted their rankings in the past (but not for cameras), but do not rely on their rankings exclusively. I have frequently seriously disagreed with their rankings of cameras in the past, but at the same time, I can understand their logic, as I can with that of the 60D and 7D rankings, assuming they are guiding the average consumer.</p>

<p>Regarding their (CU) rankings of car's reliability: I am surprised that several responders seem to rely more on anecdotal information than rankings based on the thousands of experiences of actual owners. While neither can be said to be 100% reliable, I would place my bet on the latter every single time if I were trying to choose between two or three competing makes. </p>

 

[tdigi]

<p>The 60D is a great camera as a nice step up from the rebels and considering the price and features its a great bargain so I can see how it will appeal to the masses. It seemed to take a lot of flack when it was first released but it seems to be successful.</p>

<p>I was looking for a cheaper/lighter second camera for casual use/backup etc. I got to test one out and I was very impressed, I was about to order a T2i but found the 60D to be much better for almost the same price. </p>

 

[Marcus Ian]

<p>@Yakim - IDK, but I believe that's why they said the 60s got a better one than the 7D... -nobody will post a link to the ACTUAL article, instead of going on and on and on and on about <em>cars</em>.</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>two statements and innustrations from CU stand out in my (old) mind<br>

1- Ice cream standing on a plate overnight<br>

the cheap stuff kept it's shape<br>

REAL icecream melted to a puddle<br>

I buy the real thing- no gellatin or additives<br>

secons " after 10 years the condition of a car is more important that the make or model"<br>

PARTIALLY true. we still often choose a used car<br>

based on make (( we will buy no car before it's time<br>

100.00 miles or ten years- whichever comes last))<br>

also scanning the wrecking yards,. if a make of car looks good enough to drive hom,e-avoid that part of the yard / that make)<br>

SAABS- my son and his friends were totally into older SABBS.<br>

they were tough and very drivable. when GM took over interest quickly faded.<br>

the head of the NJ SAAB club and the members do not consider the GM produced cars to be REAL SAABS. and the end or that Marque-forever.</p>

<p> </p>

[dzaebst]

<p>@Marcus, Here it is, but I don't know how much of the article you will be able to access because ConsumerReports.org is a paid site:<br>

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/cameras-photography/digital-cameras/digital-slr-camera-ratings/ratings-overview.htm</p>

<p>There isn't much information there other than what I already posted. Interestingly, most of the 60D's reviewers on the CR site characterize themselves as "photo enthusiasts", one as a "semi-pro".</p>

 

[zack_zoll]

<p>Ralph, I may have been lucky with my Saab, and unlucky with my other cars. Most of the maintainence I had to do was dumb stuff (sensors, belts and hoses, etc.), and they only 'expensive' repair I had was when they had to change the internal controller for the heat, as it was stuck in the 'off' position. Meanwhile I had exhaust problems like crazy from my Toyota since the whole undercarriage section had rusted out over the years, and I had to reseal the sunroof every Spring. I've also had to replace the alternator in my Taurus, after just 130,000 miles.</p>

<p>None of these are outrageous considering the milages, nor is the crack in your engine considering our winters - especially last year. But it does go to show you that being more expensive on paper doesn't necessarily mean more expensive in practice. As far as cost versus miles driven, I would rank my Saab best, followed by the Toyota, and then the Ford. But the Ford is the cushiest and most enjoyable one I've owned :)</p>

<p>And yes, I do realize that one instance does not a rule make.</p>

[harryjacksonjr]

<p>Actually, I agree with the evaluation with respect to the CR audience. From my perspective, though, I find the 7D on bottom of the pro cameras and hte 60D at the top of the amateur cameras. I haven't seen the review, but viewfinder vs. live view is one thing. But most of my friends do bracket manual focusing.<br>

And the other issue, I'd recommend a 60D to someone in favor of putting the real money into the glass.<br>

I have a 7D as a backup, but 90 percent of the time, it sits on my 500 L with a 1.4 teleconverter and set of MF.<br>

I don't think CR's audience is interested in that.<br>

h</p>

[bob_mauceli]

<p>In their ratings, CR usually state that any difference in overall score of performance and quality that is LESS than 5 points is immaterial -- the 60D is rated at 75, the 7D at 73, a difference of only 2 points. <br>

CR also say in this article that for closely rated products the buyer should make his or her choice based his or her need for the features and willingness to pay for those features, and on the overall reliability of the model and the brand. <br>

Based on that, I guess I'd say that CR are NOT saying that the 60D is 'ahead' of the 7D, but that both are about equal in overall performance and quality...given what each do. <br>

I think CR ARE saying that the products ARE different...as several have pointed out in this forum. If you can use the feature set offered by the 60D, CR are saying you're getting a top product in the performance and quality it provides. If, however, you need/want the 7D feature set, and are willing to pay a premium of perhaps as much as $600 to get it, then CR would say you're getting an EQUALLY good product, in terms of performance and quality, for what IT provides. <br>

I think where the magazine's value judgement come in is that they believe most of their target audience would be satisfied with the 60D feature set and would prefer to pay the lower price for that model.</p>

[rob_garsson]

<p>From what I understand in the 7D you pay 700$ more for a faster frame rate, better performance at high ISO, and a better AF system. The 60D has the same sensor and is a functional camera, plus it has the articulated LCD which could be important for many users particularly if they are shooting video. Personally I couldn't justify spending that much more on a 7D for features that don't interest me too much, and if I could I think I would just bite the bullet and make the jump to the MK II. </p>

[friskybongo]

<p>Which is more controversial:<br>

1. Consumer Reports reviews on photographic equipment<br>

2. Gary Fong<br>

3. Ken Rockwell</p>

[mark_stevens9]

<p>Out of the box, shooting video on the current Canons is not as easy as a dedicated video camera. Their video capability is more of a novelty at this point. Besides the manual-only focus, has anyone tried to maintain focus outdoors using the video screen? Go try it on a sunny day. You need at least an LCD loupe and a follow-focus setup to make these cameras really perform to their potential. People do it all the time but it IS an added expense. Realistically for "aunt Millie", she is better off with a dedicated video camera AND a separate DSLR (unless maybe she goes Nikon?)<br>

How fast is shooting photos going to be with the video screen? I have done it with the 7D (it can be done) but for most things I'd rather use the viewfinder. It's too slow for action shots. In my opinion it's better suited to special situations like when you need to reach over a crowd or when putting the camera on the ground to compose a shot. Yeah maybe the 60D would be good at that but again, it's not my cup of tea for 98% of shots.<br>

The bottom line is I like my 7D because of the superior focusing system, faster framerate, dual processors, rugged construction, and larger viewfinder.<br>

It is rated for 50% more actuations than the 60D as well so I guess you get what you pay for.</p>

[philip_wilson]

I am surprised by how much people care about the consumer reports view. It is clear that the manufacturer (Canon)

believes that the 7D is a better camera and charges about twice as much for it. As with all similar publications CU is

driving to an average world where things are essentially undifferentiated. The most enjoyment I ever had from a

reasonably priced car was from an Alfa Romeo (Alfasud Sprint). But like all old Alfas it broke down, rusted, and had

horrendous repair bills. So on a rational ( the car as an appliance) review it was a terrible car. I believe that CU was a

big fan of Saturns which were terrible obsolete vehicles but with a unique sales and service proposition. Anyone who

knows a topic does not need a CU type review and should not really rely on the opinions of general (unknown)

reviewers or feedback providers but should pay attention to the experiences of other people in a similar situation. Take

JD Power - you usually find that discount brand will out score most premium brands. Does that mean you should buy

Hyundai over Porsche. No it means that the expectations of the Hyundai buyers were exceeded more than those of

Porsche buyers

 

My sadness is that the role of magazines like CU and Internet reviews is that diversity appears to be suffering and

manufacturers are becoming constrained by having to meet these perceived needs. I have a camera with a tilting

screen (a Panasonic G1 bought to use some old FD lenses) but it is not a feature I want on my Canon DSLRs. I am a

users who only uses the rear LCD to look at histograms and shots plus a quick view of the camera settings. The only

time I use it as a viewfinder is when I shoot with a Tilt shift lens from a tripod. Thus I do not need a hinge and pivot

system that reduces the durability of my body but I am sure I will get one. I have never used CA or the green

rectangle on my 5DII and 7D (indeed I do not know what they do) but I have them. Similarly I do not want to shoot

video with an SLR but it is there. I tried it once at a ski race but it is almost impossible to focus and hold the camera

still - even with a 70-200 and being right on the course. Perhaps in a studio with a tripod and some sort of cover over

the screen to reduce reflections this may be possible. But clealy adding video to an SLR increases it's market potential