Adjusting price on an enlarger lens w Schneideritis

[paul_ong1]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I very recently bought a Schneider Componon-S 135mm enlarger lens. The seller failed to mentioned that it has a severe case of Schneideritis, and that will cause some problem because I plan to use it as a close distance lens on a hybrid camera. (Light will be coming in from the front thus hitting the white/silver specs, causing some internal reflection. Less of a problem if the light comes in from the rear if used for enlarging.)</p>

<p>I don't want to go through the hassle of returning, plus I can probably use the lens by closing it down.</p>

<p>I wrote the seller, and he agree to provide a partial refund.</p>

<p>Can anyone tell me what percent of the cost I should request? Thanks.</p>

[dave_s]

<p>Just my $0.02, but I think it would depend on the circumstances of the sale. <br>

(i) If you bought it at dealer prices, from a dealer who represented it as being in top condition, then maybe 25%. <br>

(ii) If you got it cheaply in an online auction or something, forget about it and use a good lens shade. The only recent 135 Componon-S on ebay went for $58-- if this one is yours, you got a steal.</p>

[erie_patsellis]

<p>Paul,<br>

In my opinion (FWIW), much ado about nothing. I use lenses of all types with/without multicoating, lenses made with and without edge blackening, Schneideritis or not, etc. I can bet if you shot two images, one with the lens and one with an identical lens without you would be hard pressed to see, much less measure any substantive differences. There are plenty of things to be concerned about, but that's not one of them.</p>

<p>And yes, I've done the very same test I'm suggesting, there is such a trivial difference that exposure errors, or if this is a digital hybrid the effects of post processing, will swamp the effect by orders of magnitude. There are other things to be obsessed with, but this isn't one of them.</p>

[leicaglow]

I echo Erie's opinion. It comes with the brand. Early on in my LF

career, I was helllbent to buy a super angulon without schneideritis. I

paid quite a premium for a used copy, only to have it occur in just a

matter of a few months of use.

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>A slight loss of edge blackening is usually of no consequence and many older lenses actually left the factory with those little silver speckles showing. Besides, Componons and Componon-S lenses come apart easily and can easily be reblackened with modern materials.</p>

<p>It was rumoured that Schneider, Rodenstock, Leitz and the like had teams of maidens hand-painting the rims of their lenses with "special" paint. That must be "special" in the way that some unfortunate people are now referred to as Special, because the thick black muck that they applied often didn't bed into the ground edge of the glass at all well.</p>

<p>If you want a DIY fix. Dismantle the lens down to the offending cemented pair (it's nearly always a cemented pair that loses its edge blackening). Remove the existing paint with white-spirit and/or nail varnish remover. Clean the lens thoroughly and put on a pair of unpowdered latex gloves. Recoat using a broad permanent black felt tip marker. Reassemble the lens and job done!</p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>Thanks for the feedback. Dave, yes the $58 Schneider from ebay, and I agree with Erie and Michael that this is certainly not a problem worth much of my time and effort. If the seller had told me about the prior to or during the bidding, then I would have factored that in, and likely gotten it a slightly lower price. </p>

<p>But, what bothers me is that the seller failed to disclose this. One of the risks of shopping ebay is not knowing what one is buying, and overcoming that risk depends on honest and full disclosure from the seller. I can understand if there are unobservable problems, but this is not the case here. Ebay requires a considerable amount of self-policing, which requires buyers do not speak up. So, I guess it is not just the small dollar amount but a larger principle, at least in my opinion. Hard to get off that "high horse."</p>

<p>The good thing is that the seller quickly acknowledged the problem and offer to rectify it. I appreciate that response from him. I guess I wrote him more out of irritation than anything else.</p>

<p>The problem is so obvious, and I am attaching a couple of photos, one straight on, and the other from the side. The second shows considerable internal reflection of the specs because they are reproduced on the surface of internal lenses. That is worrisome to me, particularly since I intend to use this as a "taking" lens rather than an enlarging lens.</p>

<p>I will follow Joe's advice and try some DYI, plus ask for a small partial refund just to do my part in ebay self-policing.</p><div></div>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Second shot.</p><div></div>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Oops, wrong photo</p>

<div></div>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p><a href="http://www.skgrimes.com/library/old-news/old-lenses-can-be-restored-by-re-cementing">http://www.skgrimes.com/library/old-news/old-lenses-can-be-restored-by-re-cementing</a><br>

Has some good information on recementing lens elements.</p>

<p>Heating the lens element (group) in an oven set to 150⁰F to 180⁰F for 30 to 45 minutes may soften the existing cement and cause it to correct itself. Temperatures above 200⁰F might cause damage but below will not. I treated a very cloudy Goertz Dagor this way and it cleared after heat treating and sitting in a cool area for several days.</p>

[thirteenthumbs]

<p>Addendum:<br>

Use temperatures below 200⁰F if the lens is in its mount (barrel). Use temperatures up to the melt point of the cement if the lens is out of the mount (glass only). In either case heat and cool slowly.</p>

[erie_patsellis]

<p>Paul, your first image show a tremendous amount of either dirt or lime scale (possibly the lens got wet as some point??). Have you removed the group and cleaned it? I suspect that once clean, you'd likely not have any issues.</p>

<p>I don't see any cement failures, but you should be aware that Schneider used UV curing adhesives, not balsam, and heating it won't have any positive effect, but likely some negative. Cement separation in these adhesives takes on a snowflake pattern, I can post pictures of what it looks like as I have a couple of separations in my 360 Componon (and they have no effect on taking).</p>

<p>I'm sure I've posted and you have seen the pictures of the 210 Componon I had in a shutter that had a good sized (around 1/4"x3/8") chunk out of it and images were just fine.</p>

[erie_patsellis]

<p>I'll post them in case you haven't:<br>

this lens<br>

<img src="http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/epatsellis/DSCF7412.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>took this picture (on 8x10)<br>

<img src="http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/epatsellis/stream.jpg" alt="" /><br>

Other than missing the corner being clipped, it's quite a stunningly sharp image until the last 3/4" or so of image circle, but that has nothing to do with the chip in it. It is a result of shooting at f11 instead of f16 or smaller, as it was rapidly getting dark and even at f11, the exposure was close to 30 seconds. I'd go so far as to mail you the negative for you to evaluate should you wish.</p>

<p>Clean the componon up well, and you'll have no issues.</p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Charles, thanks for the tip. If I do disassemble it and need to deal with separation, then I know what to do. I do have an older Carl Zeiss Jena that has a potential problem, so that may be my first effort.</p>

<p>Erie, have not had a chance to remove the lens groups. Busy with other things, including taking and processing photos this weekend. Yes, there is considerable amount of dust inside, and there are water or chemical marks, along with some cleaning scratches. As some point, I will disassemble, clean and paint over the Schnerideritis. I am using the Componon-S as a lens on a new digital hybrid, which uses a Century Graphic and a Sony NEX. Probably only go down to f/8, f/11 at the most with the 135mm, because of diffraction on the small sensor. Below is a link to that project. At that time, was using an 80mm Schneider Componon-S. (Nice shot, like the tonality.)</p>

<p>