Helping Dad love photography again in the digital age?

[robinpeeples]

<p>I decided to address the question to this forum because what I'm pondering is how to awaken the same love my dad used to have for photography with "classic manual cameras" instead with today's digital cameras. Basically my question is not specifically about either digital or film photography; it's about how to access some of what my dad used to enjoy... but with modern technology (but please do move this thread if it actually belongs elsewhere).</p>

<p><strong>To those who grew up using classic manual cameras but who now also love digital photography: What is it that <em>makes</em> you love digital photography? What camera do you love? Any feedback is sincerely appreciated.</strong><br /> <strong><br /></strong><br /> Background:</p>

<p>My dad's been an amateur photographer since he was my age (mid-twenties) in the seventies. He loved his FM2 (that I'm now starting to play with), and has hundreds of boxes of slides in storage. He got a 3 megapixel canon point and shoot about ten years ago that he mostly hated, but even still he pretty much completely stopped using film at that point.</p>

<p>Four or five years ago, my mom and I bought him a D70 that would work with some of the Nikon lenses he already had—he likes it better than the point and shoot, but it still doesn't touch the same nerve film photography did.</p>

<p>I recently bought him Lightroom (which I use and love) and a Lynda.com subscription, but he hasn't gotten into it. He's mentioned that he feels like it's just too easy to take a picture these days, so photography has lost its excitement for him. At the same time, I don't think he likes the pictures straight out of his camera very much (but he's not super interested in adjusting them in lightroom either).</p>

<p>It's a bit tragic, but there must be a solution. I grew up with digital, so I just can't quite relate to my dad's lack of excitement for it. This is a big, open, subjective question so I'm not looking for a single concise answer. I'm just hoping for a few ideas to try out. Is there a specific camera body that might strike the same chord? Is there a class he could take or a book to read? A workflow to follow? I'm really eager to hear any suggestion that anyone's willing to share. Thanks for your time!</p>

[Tony Evans]

<p>Give him back his FM2.</p>

[Lou_Meluso]

<p>Where's the tragedy? Why push him to what you like? Buy your Dad a new, spiffy, modern style, hip camera bag. Take his FM2 to the camera shop and have it restored to it's former glory. Put camera in bag with a few rolls of the new Kodak Portra film and present it to him as a gift. Then the two of you go out and shoot together. Have his film processed and put on a CD. Now both of you can sit at the computer together and you can show him all the fun LR/PS stuff you want and send the photos to family and friends. Problem solved!</p>

[craigd]

<p>Sometimes things become boring if they're too easy. With digital, you can take a picture, then look at the image on the LCD, and take another if you don't like what you got. The instant feedback, along with the nearly zero cost of each shot, makes it too easy to shoot without thinking and just throw away the ones that don't come out well -- or fix them up on your computer later. ISO can be changed on the fly, and with a super-zoom lens or two or three better-quality zooms, you can cover as wide a range of focal lengths as most people really need. So there's no need to think ahead anymore. You just bring your camera and your zoom lenses and snap away. Take a thousand thoughtless shots in a day and end up keeping the dozen or so that, by accident, came out well -- who cares?</p>

<p>With film, a manual camera, and only prime lenses, you have to make choices intelligently, some of them ahead of time (what film to bring, how much of it, what lenses and filters to put in your bag) and some on the spot (what combination of aperture and shutter speed? what filter?). Every shot costs a measurable amount of money ($3 to $15 for a roll of film, plus lab costs if you don't have your own, divided by the number of frames per roll), and you have to change rolls every 24 or 36 shots (or 8-16 with 120 film, or every shot with a view camera). And if you shoot slide film, you really have to get the exposure right because the developed slide is the final product. All of this discourages mental laziness and provides your creative mind with a set of constraints and challenges to deal with. Even having to wait to see your results is actually a plus -- it gives you something to look forward to when you're done shooting. A good picture makes you feel like you really accomplished something; the machine didn't just do it for you automatically.</p>

<p>I don't know your dad, of course, but it sounds to me like this may be the sort of thoughts he's having about digital photography. My own solution was to go back to film.</p>

[robinpeeples]

<p>Thanks for all the responses so far (so quick!).</p>

<p>I want to add that it's not like I stole the FM2 from him—he hasn't used it in 10 years and doesn't seem to want to (I also have his Olympus 35RC). He loved it, but it's almost like it's not a convenient part of his world anymore. His thing was shooting color slides, but it was getting difficult and expensive to process them...and then his projector broke and was going to be very expensive to replace or repair. I think something he does like about digital is the ease of sharing photos and giving slide shows.</p>

<p>Louis—I'm definitely not trying to push him to digital. It's just that he went there...and then burned out, so I'm trying to think about how to give it new life. If he got back into his FM2 and never picked up a digital camera again but was happy, I'd be happy too... it just hasn't seemed likely. I love your suggestion about digitizing his film. Maybe that would be a bridge.</p>

<p>Craig—I think you are spot on about the appeal of film, etc. Limitations inspire creativity. I guess I'm just wondering if there isn't a digital recipe for a similar tasting photography-cake? If that makes any sense. Limits can also be self-imposed and still work well.</p>

<p>Anyway, I'll think more what you all have suggested so far. Thanks again for your feedback!</p>

[jim_gibbons]

<p>Any chance he's just lost interest for now, or for good? Have you asked him? I used to love fishing but I have not done it in 5 years and so far I don't miss it. Maybe he's just going through a phase.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>I started photography about the same time as your dad. My first camera was a Nikon F2as. I stopped doing photography for a long while due to money problem rather than lost of interest. I got back to photography in 2002 with a film camera (a Nikon F5). I don't own a DLSR but I know some time in the near future I can't use film any more because the cost would be so high. Last time I had to pay $7 to have a roll of film develop. It's negative film and no print no cd. Ouch.<br>

I think for the time being, give him his FM2 back. Have him shooting those color slides again along with you. For someone who get used to a manual 35mm slr, a P&S is actually very difficult and frustrated to use. You know it doesn't do it right but you just can't figure out how to make it does what you want it to. So let him get back to his film camera for a while. May be get him a scanner so he can digitize his slide. And then introduce him to various new DSLR's. Probably the one that he would want to use and get him excited would be one of those high end pro models. The viewfinder of most DSLR's today can't compared to the good old 35mm SLR.</p>

[robinpeeples]

<p>Jim—I'm not sure. When he talks about it, there's kind of a sadness to it, like talking about the death of a loved one. That makes me think he's still interested, but just doesn't know how to approach it right now. It's possible he's lost interest though, and I certainly won't try to handcuff him to a camera or anything. Just want to have some ideas to talk about the next time it comes up in conversation. Thanks!</p>

[michael_linn]

<p>I'd focus on the slide aspect. I bet he misses seeing those sharp, saturated Kodachromes up on the screen..</p>

<p>Does he have a large flat screen HDTV? If not consider getting him say, a 50" plasma.</p>

<p>Get some of his good slides from the "old days", have them scanned professionally to a cd, put them in the dvd player, and let the slide show begin. It might work.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

[cliffmanley]

Why don't you give him a complete change of attitude! Why not get him a real cool medium format folder or TLR. They are fun to play with just sitting in the recliner! Make sure you get a few rolls of film so he can use it right away! If he is into slides, get him some 120 Velvia! Then ease him into the digital by scanning them for his slideshows like Michael said! He obviously doesn't like the digital and is bored with 35mm so go with something different! Once you see some medium format positives, you might give up the digital too!

[cliffmanley]

He may also be more responsive if you both shot film together and he actually felt like he was teaching you something. Tell him you need his help! How can he resist that offer!

You can find out what he likes by saying that you are wishing to get into medium format and want him to help decide what camera to get. Maybe a folder, maybe a TLR, maybe a 6x9 press camera, who knows what he has always wanted. Just ask him.

[mark_medin]

<p>I don't understand this "high cost of film" assertion of the poster above. Purchasing a quality DSLR with lenses that are analogous to what I have for my Minoltas would set me back many, <em>many</em> thousands of dollars. I've spent less than $300 for all the equipment in my kit, including four bodies and about a dozen lenses. I can get a roll of 35mm negative film processed for $3-4 from a place I trust. Slide film only slightly more, but I never have them cut or mounted. Therefore I'm saving money for film, which I almost always buy at a discount (I got dozens of rolls of Elite Chrome 100 for $1.29 a roll from a store closing out its film section).<br>

As for digital cameras, I've owned a few and (oh, yes I'm repeating myself) had very bad luck with reliability. As long as they worked, they were fine and did all I wished them to, but all three died, each not very long after the warranty expired. None of the camera makers would give me a break in warranty either, and those cameras were never abused (one had taken less than 100 shots). At least, not abused until after I found I couldn't economically repair them.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>I paid around $5 for a roll of color negative film. More for chrome. Last time I had my roll processed in C41 only and no prints, no cut, no scan it cost me $7. I would never shoot as much as many of the digital users do but still $1000 a year easy.<br>

and yes the cost of equipment is relative. I have bought an entire kit of Minolta XD-11 with 3 lenses for $100. A few nice SLR for less than $50 with lens. But my main cameras I bought new were the second Nikon F3HP in 2001 for $1200 and an F5 in 2002 for $2000. So it depends. But films are expensive and is harder to buy and get processed. I have hard time buying RA-4 paper and chemicals to make my prints. And their prices had been stable since the 80's until a couple years ago they went up very much.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>He really liked shooting slides before, so buy him a couple rolls of slide film and replace the old projector. Used ones are not expensive these days.</p>

 

[marc_rochkind]

Some of these posts suggest that your Dad is an old man who can't make his own decisions. But, doing the arithmetic,

I am guessing he is about 60-65, which is still young. Happens to be my age.

 

I started with film, and haven't noticed that digital is easier, since it's all about composition. I do like that I don't have to

hassle with the part I hated, the wet darkroom.

 

I suspect your Dad has simply lost interest in photography. It's not a film vs. digital issue.

[vrankin]

<p>I'll be 63 in September. I started with SLR cameras in the mid sixties. Kodachromes projected were my favorite experience. In 1999 I got my first digital camera - a point & shoot. Now I'm shooting with a relatively old, low-priced Nikon D50 DSLR. I can have all of the manual controls I had with the film cameras, plus many others. Your Dad might have a friend or friends who would loan him a good DSLR to try out, maybe even a Nikon (like a D50, D80 or D90) that would shoot with some of his old Nikkor lenses. He could control aperture and shutter speeds like in the old days, and see his results on the LCD. It might rekindle his interest. </p>

[maderik]

<p>Get him a Nikon film scanner and a high quality 24" or 27" monitor. Then he can revisit his old slides in a new way that might give him the itch to shoot again. </p>

[gnashings]

<p>I am 100% completely and utterly with Cliff on this one - its not digital that he needs, if he misses photography. But if photography itself has lost its appeal a bit, perhaps something with a different pace, different dynamic - if you think a film camera is different than a photo computer, you should try getting out with a medium or better yet large format camera. Its a completely different experience, completely different pace. <br>

I don't think you will sell him on a photocomputer and file processing if photography is what he is missing.<br>

Or perhaps its not the medium at all - perhaps its the activities involved in it. Maybe its not the camera or the computer or the software. Maybe the answer is buy two tickets to a photo tour or seminar with outings offered by many very respectable photogs specializing in a variety of themes, and go with him. Perhaps that's the missing piece, not the actual picture taking at all?<br>

I know I wish I did far more of that with my father when he was still here, I think there is a very dangerous tendency as people get on in years, and losing interest in things they once enjoyed is a symptom of it. Whatever the end result, spend time with him. As much as you can. </p>

[patrickwells]

<p>It sounds like when the projector died his interest waned. If that is the case I'm with Michael with the cd's. When I get my film developed I get a cd/dvd copy also so that I can load on computer, and see on my big screen It's not exactly the same as a projector but close enough and easier to do . no getting every thing out and setting up then tear down and put up.<br>

Asking him to help you learn was also a very good idea. My son has no interest in the things that I do. So we don't do a lot together.</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>It sounds like when the projector died his interest waned. If that is the case I'm with Michael with the cd's. When I get my film developed I get a cd/dvd copy also so that I can load on computer, and see on my big screen</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If that's the case, get another projector. Viewing images on a screen drags them down to the same level as TV programmes. i.e. boring!</p>

[andylynn]

<p>Do you think he wants to shoot, or now that the nest is empty and there are no kids to point the things at he's not too into cameras anymore? </p>

<p>My father's probably around your father's age and got into shooting DSLRs a few years ago, mostly landscape and more than a bit for the gadget appeal - if he sees somebody with a telltale Nikon strap he walks up to them and starts talking about how he "edits" (he takes raw files into some Nikon software and tweaks the sliders) - but, whatever works. Sometimes on trips we go out shooting and he's impressed by the relative hugeness of my F100. But with fathers that age, you can't ask too much of them - mine is a bit lost because the version of the Nikon software that his new camera needs crashes and he doesn't want to move over to an Adobe program. I think if yours would get back into photography, he'd be more likely to do it with a film camera (maybe get his FM2 CLA'ed and give it back, along with some slide film and processing mailers). It sounds like he doesn't like digital cameras. </p>

<p>You could also give him a scancafe.com "gift box" - he fills the box with old slides, postage is prepaid, a few weeks later he gets back the slides with scans. You could also replace the broken projector. Those are really cheap these days - you can even put together a Leica projector kit for under $100 if you're smart about it.</p>

[User_502260]

<p>On Sunday my teenage son asked what camera I would use for Fathers Day. We visited both sets of grandparents. I could have use any number of different film cameras in my collection as well as my Pentax K-x. What did I bring? A Canon F-1 with only five lenses: 24/2. FD SSC, 35/2 FD SSC, 50/3.5 New FD, 100/2.8 Vivitar macro and 200/2.8 New FD. The 24 and 200 lenses did not get used. I took the indoor photos with an old Vivitar 2800 flash. The film was Walgreens (Fuji) 400, shot at 320. Apart from a few shots with eyes closed (not mine) I was very happy with the results. I don't want to take anything away from the K-x or any other digital cameras but I think I had more fun using the old film equipment. The only automatic thing was the flash. </p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>Just to add to the excellent advice that's already been given, Robin, here are a few ways that using a DSLR can better approximate the experience of shooting with classic film SLR's:</p>

<p>1) Always use "One Shot" AF mode or, better still, just focus your lenses manually.<br />2) Use manual exposure mode (or the mode you tended to prefer with your SLR). That way, you can adjust exposure directly without having to fiddle around with exposure compensation.<br />3) Shut the rear LCD off, and view photos only once they have been downloaded to your computer. This entails that you'll always use the viewfinder and never Liveview, and that you won't "chimp" and select images as you are shooting.<br />4) Shoot only in RAW, and try to get the correct exposures out-of-camera. Set "default" contrast and sharpness levels to those that most closely approximate those of your favourite film, and then all you might have to do in post is tweak the white balance.</p>

<p>I "came over" from film (though I still do shoot with it about a third of the time), and find that following some or all of the above renders using a DSLR at least somewhat comparable to using a classic film SLR.</p>

[maderik]

<blockquote>

<p>here are a few ways that using a DSLR can better approximate the experience of shooting with classic film SLR's</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Don't forget:<br>

5) Only use the smaller memory cards. A 256MB card on a D70 will only hold slightly more than 36 RAW+JPEG images. Then swap 'em out like loading a new roll of film (and carry as many as you would rolls of film.)</p>

[george_shihanian]

<p>Like someone else already posted, I would just have his camera serviced and equipment checked and get him a new bag and several flavors of film and see if he picks it up again. If he does, then a bit later on you can mention to him how it's now possible to scan in his film or prints and avail himself of digital possibilities in that manner. He may be interested in going down that road, he may just want to shoot film and not even take up a digital avenue, or he may not even want to take photos any longer. Whatever he chooses, you won't have spent a large amount, and the camera will be ready for when/if he decides to start up again.</p>

<p>I also like the mentioned suggestion to take him to a photo seminar of some kind. Some years ago I took a two-day weekend seminar given by Art Wolfe and others and I felt recharged and benefitted greatly from it.</p>