Which monolights Hypersync to 1/8000th w/Nikon D3s + MiniTT1/FlexTT5 set-up?

ian_casement · July 12, 2011

Now, I realize how the "High Speed Sync HSS/FP Begins at:" value can be used. I think my version of the utility, unfortunately, tops out at 1/640th.

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EXCEPT; By setting 1/640s you only get to use 1/500s in Hypersync. Your 1/640s is the "High Speed Sync HSS/FP Begins at" setting... i.e HSS/FP begins at 1/640s.

From specifications you've mentioned, you might have older firmware loaded. You mentioned using -2300 as an offset, yet PW only mention -2000 as an option now so I don't know how that might help or hinder what you're trying to do and whether the 'old' -2300 is the same as the 'new' -2000 if that has changed. It's worth bearing in mind that newer firmware will be repairing older problems so you might want to update that..

Losing 1 stop of output is disappointing, so if you're being challenged by bright light and your flashes are maxed out there may still be a place for the ND's.

studio460 · July 14, 2011

Ian said:

By setting 1/640s you only get to use 1/500s in Hypersync. Your 1/640s is the "High Speed Sync HSS/FP Begins at" setting... i.e HSS/FP begins at 1/640s.

</blockquote>

Gotcha.

From specifications you've mentioned, you might have older firmware loaded.

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Since you're Canon, I believe, and I'm Nikon, we may have different "current" versions of the application software (I think mine is v2.3). I do click the "update" button from time to time, and all that comes up is an updated HTML help file.

Losing 1 stop of output is disappointing, so if you're being challenged by bright light and your flashes are maxed out there may still be a place for the ND's.

</blockquote>

Yes, that seems to be the case. I guess I'll finally have to pony up for one of those pricey variable ND filters. But, I'm absolutely elated that I don't seem to be losing more than that single stop in HSS/FP mode, even as I increase shutter speed all the way up to 1/8,000th (compared with my apparent one-stop loss per every increase in shutter speed with my Speedotron Force 10). I'm dying to perform more accurate tests to confirm all of this (and to post some better test images here). Unfortunately, I have a very early call tomorrow.

P.S. For others following this thread, remember that all of this information is both camera body-specific, and flash-specific. Your mileage will definitely vary.

ian_casement · July 14, 2011

I'm out of the loop as to the most recent firmware for Nikon, (which I use). But on the Nikon spec of the PW site yesterday I read that the offsets were now between +200 to -2000 settings. (Maybe I did read about the Canon version).

Are you certain that you can't keep ratio using the PW's? Losing a stop shouldn't be the case. Maybe at the 1/320s - 1/1000s levels that sort of loss might be evident, but at the faster shutter speeds that loss shouldn't still be one stop ?

studio460 · July 14, 2011

I said:

Since you're Canon, I believe, and I'm Nikon, we may have different "current" versions of the application software (I think mine is v2.3).

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Correction: my application version is v2.2

studio460 · July 14, 2011

Ian said:

Are you certain that you can't keep ratio using the PW's? Losing a stop shouldn't be the case. Maybe at the 1/320s - 1/1000s levels that sort of loss might be evident, but at the faster shutter speeds that loss shouldn't still be one stop?

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In HSS/FP mode, it appears that I'm losing one-stop, total (not incrementally), throughout the entire shutter speed range with the Qflash and Dynalite over X-sync (but not with the Speedotron; I lose one stop, incrementally, per increase in shutter speed). This is why I'm trying to hard-wire sync directly from camera to get some baseline data without any PocketWizards in the equation. I'm a bit suspect myself. Let me re-test, confirm, and get back to you.

studio460 · July 15, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s Strobe: Dynalite Uni400JR, full-power; t.5 = 1/675th HSS/FP = enabled; HSS/FP begins at = 1/500th; HyperSync offset = -1,400

studio460 · July 15, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s Strobe: Dynalite Uni400JR, full-power; t.5 = 1/675th HSS/FP = disabled; HyperSync offset = -2,300

studio460 · July 15, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s Strobe: Quantum Qflash model T @ full-power; t 0.5 = 1/300th HSS/FP = enabled; HSS/FP begins at = 1/500th; HyperSync offset = -1,400

studio460 · July 16, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s Strobe: Quantum Qflash model T @ full-power; t 0.5 = 1/300th HSS/FP = DISABLED; HyperSync offset = -2,300

ian_casement · July 16, 2011

If you don't mind me saying Ralph, your results are not as good as I would have expected from those slow units. In fact, Im pretty certain that I can get better results from a speedlight without any graduation between 1/1000s - 1/8000s, even with the faster duration. (1/320s, 1/400s and 1/500s always seem to be a bit on the dark side IMO, but still don't get graduations).

I have no experience with the Dynalites, but I do get better results with the Quantum T's.. the T5's in my case, but I doubt that there will be very much difference between the two models of T to cause so much noticeable difference as in your tests. Even camera wise, you're using a D3s, and my results are from a D3x. I would expect that they share the same shutter, so that shouldn't impose much of a difference, if any.

If you get a chance - try this:

Put a speedlight in your hotshoe, connect your Quantum or Dynalite by sync cable to your D3s (use either the body sync or secondary flash PC sync) and see what you get. I would expect you to get a less vignetted result yet perhaps a little darker than could be obtained by radio. Your on camera flash should be set to low power and pointed away from your subject area. All this is doing is providing the sync point for your Quantum or Dynalite flash to use, so it's output is irrelevant.

If you manage to get a more even coverage with less vignette, then there's something wrong somewhere. If there is the same type of vignette then thats the characteristics of your setup, and you've achieved the best you can.

studio460 · July 16, 2011

Ian said:

If you don't mind me saying Ralph, your results are not as good as I would have expected from those slow units. In fact, Im pretty certain that I can get better results from a speedlight without any graduation between 1/1000s - 1/8000s, even with the faster duration.

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I don't mind at all, Ian. Thanks for taking the time to help vet these tests. Yes, I was rather unimpressed the results as well. In contrast, your previously posted results demonstrate significantly improved benefits over mine--impressive, even. I hardwire-synced the first shots as a baseline to take the PocketWizards completely out of the equation. I still may have an issue with the way I'm syncing the Qflash--need take the QF-12 TTL cable out of the loop, and if you've read my other "sync" thread, you can see that I'm experiencing some rather puzzling sync issues.

If you get a chance - try this: Put a speedlight in your hotshoe, connect your Quantum or Dynalite by sync cable to your D3s (use either the body sync or secondary flash PC sync) and see what you get.

</blockquote>

Absolutely! As soon as I can get to it; though, probably not until later this evening.

ian_casement · July 16, 2011

I still may have an issue with the way I'm syncing the Qflash--need take the QF-12 TTL cable out of the loop, and if you've read my other "sync" thread, you can see that I'm experiencing some rather puzzling sync issues.

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I don't think that having the QF-12 in the loop will help either. A cable link from the TT5 should perform better. I'll look at your other sync thread as well.

studio460 · July 20, 2011

Ian said:

Put a speedlight in your hotshoe, connect your Quantum or Dynalite by sync cable to your D3s (use either the body sync or secondary flash PC sync) and see what you get . . .

</blockquote>

I put a Nikon SB-600 Speedlight, set manually at 1/64th power, in my Nikon D3s' hot-shoe. The SB-600 was pointed away from the scene and covered. I inserted the Dynalite-supplied, three-prong HH-to-PC sync cord into my D3s' PC socket. The Dynalite Uni400JR was set at full-power, shot through a small softbox. Here's what I got:

studio460 · July 20, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s Strobe: Quantum Qflash model T @ full-power; t 0.5 = 1/300th HSS/FP = enabled; HSS/FP begins at = 1/500th; HyperSync offset = -1,400 [Note: re-tested with mini-to-HH sync cable from TT5 to Qflash.]

studio460 · July 20, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s Strobe: Quantum Qflash model T @ full-power; t 0.5 = 1/300th HSS/FP = DISABLED; HyperSync offset = -2,300

[Note: re-tested with mini-to-HH sync cable from TT5 to Qflash.]

ian_casement · July 21, 2011

Raph said:

I put a Nikon SB-600 Speedlight, set manually at 1/64th power, in my Nikon D3s' hot-shoe. The SB-600 was pointed away from the scene and covered. I inserted the Dynalite-supplied, three-prong HH-to-PC sync cord into my D3s' PC socket. The Dynalite Uni400JR was set at full-power, shot through a small softbox. Here's what I got:

</blockquote>

It doesn't look as though you will get much mileage from the Uni400JR judging by those results. The Quantum results don't look much better (if any) either.

Your Force10's were giving better results from what I remember, even though they're supposed to be faster... This result looks pretty good, and doesn't appear to have the banding issues. Could the SU-800 be having some sort of affect here or is the graduation still there but more difficult to see? Just why the SU-800 ight be having an effect I don't know, but there is a significant difference judging by the results.

Well, "beating the ambient," isn't easy! Here, I've got a 1,000 Watt-second strobe at full-power, bounced into a 60" silver umbrella only about six feet from the subject. A Nikon SB-600 (no modifier) was dialed-in via TTL using an SU-800/MiniTT1/FlexTT5, placed at about six feet to the left of camera for a backlight:

</blockquote>

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/x6181.jpg" alt="" /> Nikon D3s; AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G; ISO 100; 1/8,000 @ f1.4

studio460 · July 22, 2011

Ian said:

Could the SU-800 be having some sort of affect here or is the graduation still there but more difficult to see?

</blockquote>

Ian, thanks for checking up on the thread! I believe the latter is true--the uneven illumination is likely just more difficult to detect in more real-world images. Check these two HSS/FP-disabled, HyperSync images I just shot at 1/3,200th:

Body: Nikon D3s/TT1 Strobe: Dynalite Uni400JR/TT5, full-power; t.5 = 1/675th + Nikon SB-600/TT5 in manual mode @ 1/32nd power. HSS/FP = disabled; HyperSync offset = -2,300

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/orange2.jpg" alt="" /> 1/3,200th @ f/16 uncropped

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/orangecrop.jpg" alt="" /> Same image with shutter-curtain shadow cropped out.

Also, I shot a few test images where I intentionally mis-directed the key, slightly above where I wanted it in the scene in order to "compensate" for the bottom-heavy, uneven "slitted" exposure. That technique actually worked fairly well. Also, since I'm only planning to use this technique under exterior daylight conditions, the uneven illumination should be even less noticeable when mixed with high-luminance ambient light present. While I think HyperSync is somewhat useful, it's certainly been a bit over-hyped, at least for use with a Nikon D3s.

Certainly, a few more tests are in order (including more with the Force10 to confirm/disconfirim your hypothesis), and I plan to shoot some ambient/flash tests to see how "readable" the uneven illumination is in the types of daylight exterior shots I'm likely to be actually shooting.

studio460 · July 22, 2011

Oh, duh! The shot of the girl was actually an HSS/FP shot, not a HyperSync image. Recall that I shot no X-sync reference image for that shot (this was before I had any clue to what was actually going on with all of this). So while uneven illumination is less of a problem with HSS/FP enabled, I suffered, I believe, instead from a severe loss of recorded flash output. Again, I'll shoot more tests with the Force10, both with and without the SU-800 to confirm.

studio460 · July 22, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s/TT1 Strobe: Dynalite Uni400JR/TT5 @ 1/8th power. HSS/FP = disabled; HyperSync offset = -2,300

Here's one with some very late-afternoon daylight in the background, looking out of a window:

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/hand1000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/1,000th @ f/4 (uncropped)

studio460 · July 23, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s/TT1 Strobe: Speedotron Force 10/TT5 (power level unrecorded). HSS/FP = disabled; HyperSync offset = -2,300

Daylight exterior:

1/1,600th @ f/6.3 (uncropped)

Same image, cropped.

studio460 · July 23, 2011

At least with this quick test with my Speedotron Force 10, I am receiving about a stop and a half more recorded flash output at shutter speeds above X-sync:

Body: Nikon D3s/TT1 Strobe: Speedotron Force 10/TT5 (power level unrecorded). HSS/FP = disabled; HyperSync offset = -2,300

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/d250.jpg" alt="" /> 1/250th @ f/16

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/d500.jpg" alt="" /> 1/500th @ f/11

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/d1000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/1,000th @ f/8

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/d2000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/2,000th @ f/5.6

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/d4000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/4,000th @ f/4.0

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/d8000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/8,000th @ f/2.8

studio460 · July 26, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s/TT1 Strobe: Speedotron Force 10; t 0.5 = 1/850th @ full-power/TT5 HSS/FP = disabled; HyperSync offset = -2,300

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F10250.jpg" alt="" /> 1/250th @ f/16

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F10500.jpg" alt="" /> 1/500th @ f/11

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F101000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/1,000th @ f8

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F102000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/2,000th @ f/5.6

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F104000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/4,000th @ f/4.0

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F108000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/8,000th @ f/2.8

studio460 · July 26, 2011

Body: Nikon D3s/TT1 Strobe: Speedotron Force 10; t 0.5 = 1/850th @ full-power/TT5 HSS/FP = enabled; HSS/FP begins at = 1/500th; HyperSync offset = -1,400

Note: the results from HSS/FP-enabled, high-speed flash sync, employed with the Speedotron Force 10, were even less efficient than the longer flash-duration strobes tested previously. Since all frames above X-sync were about equally as dark, indicating a severe loss of recorded flash output at a t 0.5 value of 1/850th, I've posted only two samples for the sake of brevity:

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F10FP250.jpg" alt="" /> 1/250th @ f/16

<img src="http://studio460.com/images/F10FP2000.jpg" alt="" /> 1/2,000th @ f5.6

ian_casement · July 26, 2011

After all the tests you've done with the Force10's it appears that there is little benefit to be obtained by using the Mini/Flex setup. Outside, your results look convincing when there is a proportion of ambient light available, although this is surprising considering the low level of that ambient.

From all the tests you've done what are your conclusions with the equipment you've been using and what method do you think you will be employing in the future to obtain the most benefit?

studio460 · July 26, 2011

Ian said:

After all the tests you've done with the Force10's it appears that there is little benefit to be obtained by using the Mini/Flex setup. Outside, your results look convincing when there is a proportion of ambient light available, although this is surprising considering the low level of that ambient.

</blockquote>

Yes, I can't quite seem to reconcile the results of the two tests. The smaller images shot with the Force 10 and the ambient appear to gain a 1.5-stop advantage; however, the interior Force 10 tests appear to disprove that advantage. Is there a flaw in the test? A variable I haven't considered? What's different with the ambient exposures, where a clear benefit seems to have been obtained?

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Which monolights Hypersync to 1/8000th w/Nikon D3s + MiniTT1/FlexTT5 set-up?

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