Wedding Critique of the Week 5/30/11

[picturesque]

<p>This week's photo was taken by Christopher Ellington. It has been a while since we've had a formal wedding party shot for critique.</p>

<p><br />This is Part 2 of Wedding Photo of the Week. You can see all submissions in the thread with that title. In your critiques - include what you would do to improve the shot or why the shot is perfect as it is.<br /><br />Remember that this is not a contest. Sometimes an image will be a winning image and sometimes an image that needs some help. Try not to just say "great shot" but explain why it works. Or - "Doesn't do it for me" without explaining why.<br /><br />The photographer up for critique for this week should remember that the comments expressed each week are simply "opinions" and the effort and focus of these threads are to learn and to take images to another level. There will be times where the critique is simply members pointing out why the shot works which is also a way for others to learn about what aspects contribute to a good wedding photo. In reading all critiques -- you may agree or disagree with some points of view - but remember that there are varying approaches and often no right or wrong answer.<br /><strong> </strong></p>

<p><strong>Christopher's Notes:</strong> Hello guys. I am new here and here is my first image post for a chance at critique. The only manipulation to this image is some slight color temperature shift to make it a bit cooler.<br /><br />------<br />Nikon D7000
 - ISO: 1600 - 
Shutter: 1/160th - 
F: /3.8 + 0.33
 - Focal Length: 21.0mm<br />------<br />This wedding was made simple as the Bride and Groom didn't want things complex. They preferred to spend more time with their guests, dancing, etc over various types of portraits or creative shots. So when I had them all lined up for a bride/groom/party shot, they really were ready to get to the reception and another wedding was just about forcing us out of this ceremony room in a matter of a few minutes. My quick thought improvisation was to have the bridal party split up to the sides and the bride and groom take several steps forward to get SOMETHING somewhat creative in there. I think I had a hard time (as an amateur) dealing with the lighting in this room. The reception was better. The ceiling basically had square insets/indentations about 2-3 feet tall each so I couldn't bounce light with my flash as the light would get trapped within a single square.<br /><br />Any feedback on my camera settings, composition, ways to improve this particular photo and how to better handle issues with focus would be appreciated.</p><div></div>

[LenMarriott]

<p>It's been a while since I shot weddings but the first thing I notice is the "Fig Leaf" pose of the men. (hands crossed in front) I would never allow this. I'd rather have the hands at their sides. Also they should be turned more toward the camera as the women are. The groom looks stiff & uncomfortable. If his left foot was pointed more toward the camera his body would take on a more relaxed appearance. Having his right hand on the 'small of her back' (no fingers showing around the bride's waist) would also help correct his body position. With the difficulty in illuminating the three groups evenly I think I would opt for having these groups closer together. One could go on nit picking but it would be just that, nit picking. Overall, a nice image for the album. Best, LM.</p>

[tom_mann1]

<p>In addition to Len's comments, I would move the rear line of people a step or two closer to the camera, allow a bit more space in front of the groom's foot, fix the tilted background, fix geometric and lens distortion and crop the ceiling a bit tighter. In addition, although it's very much a personal preference, I prefer a slightly cooler WB, so I would tweak it to get rid of most of the (slight) color cast in the dress. This will make the skin colors stand out better.</p>

<p>FWIW, here's a quick tweak incorporating the technical suggestions mentioned above plus a bit of brightening and a tiny bit of vignetting in the corners to make the B&G pop a bit more.</p>

<p>Tom M</p><div></div>

[cliff_nj]

<p>Nice formal. My slight suggestion would be to better align the BM and GM lines...the right BM is touching the brown floor tiles while the left GM is a foot in front.</p>

[tom_mann1]

<p>...oh ... and maybe a bit more detail in the bride's dress...</p>

<p>T</p><div></div>

[fuccisphotos]

<p>Generally you want to avoid back lighting entirely from windows like this. I'm a fan of guys having their hands in their pants pockets, rather than down at their sides. The bride should also be a bit more at an angle, rather than straight on. So then both the bride and the groom make a little angle. His hand can be on the bouquet, hers should be over top of that, with the ring showing if possible. She can also tip it forward to the camera more so you get more of the bouquet detail and less stems. Also be aware of background elements. At least in the whole shot you can see there are lots of windows, but if say she cropped this down to the two of them for a facebook profile, she would look like she has two horns growing out of the back of her head. I find a lot of us because we are in a time crunch don't pay as much attention to formals backgrounds as we should. But go to the location before hand. Pick out a few locations that you like, test the lighting. Find out in advance if the bridal party is willing to go outside. Picking a good background in advance will save you lots of aggravation later. Don't be afraid to try to corral the bridal party to a different location than right where the ceremony ended. Do it politely, point out how pretty your new background is/better light/no exit sign above their heads, etc, they will likely go along with it. If they don't, don't push too hard. You don't want to be known as a pushy photographer.<br>

The fact that you shot this on a wide angle lens gave you a decent amount of DOF that I wouldn't expect for F 3.8 with many other lenses. I try as a rule of thumb when shooting groups that are bigger than 5 people to have an aperture of 5 or higher unless I'm shooting at like 16mm. That way my DOF should be sufficient for people to be in focus better. I'd rather up my ISO/do some tricks with the flash than have people out of focus that should be in focus.<br>

On the whole though, I like it as an arrangement of the bridal party, rather than the standard line up shot. Another thing you can do is bring in some chairs and have the ladies sit and the men stand behind them to bring in some other levels. You combatted the backlighting fairly well. But no matter what you do, you are going to have fall off from your flash and the bridal party in the background will get dark faces, unless you WAY over flash the bride and groom, which is definitely much worse (Unless you do a bracketed exposure, and combine the two images in post, you need a tripod for this to work well!).</p>

[bruce_rubenstein]

<p>Bright areas draw the attention of the eye. The wedding party is just a minor distraction for the eye that is looking at the background. An even, bright background can work; what you've got, no.</p>

<p>With the extreme differences in distance between different people and the camera, the is no way everyone's face is sharp in that picture. If you're going to do one of those flying "V" things, it has to be geometrically perfect: men and women have to be symmetric (women can't be 2 ft farther away than the men), even lines with everyone turned the same amount, etc.</p>

<p>The guy standing in the groom's position looks like he's there so you can frame up the shot while you're waiting for the real groom to come back from the bathroom. Also, just about cutting off the "groom's" foot so you could include more ceiling, with more distracting bright lights, wasn't such a great idea.</p>

<p> </p>

[StuartMoxham]

<p>Something like this I would do...</p><div></div>

[christopher_ellington]

<p>Yeah I realize one of the biggest mistakes I've made with this is overall subject placement and details. Even if a photographer is rushed, he or she should still find a way to get the best shot possible. I had a shot of them all lined up just prior to this and had to think on the spot (basically throwing any creative shot lists out of the window) to get at least one more creative shot. The bride and groom really only wanted about 10-15 minutes max to spend on photos after the ceremony. So rather than ignoring their desire on this day, I worked within those limits. However I did get word that they loved their preliminary photos and realize that they just wanted a simple wedding day. So they didn't really allow the opportunity to take a bunch of creative shots around the hall.<br>

Looking at the photo now and seeing your comments, I would have loved to spend more time with angling everybody and a quick run through each person to make sure they were comfortable. Also it's a shame that I caught more ceiling than ground so I'll have to look into cropping and straightening as mentioned above.<br>

Earlier it had rained, but then the sun came out BRIGHT. So yeah the back lighting became a problem. Also we started off by setting up a group shot outside, but the grass was soaked with puddles on the concrete and the bride was obviously worried about her dress. So we moved it inside.<br>

Another issue I overlooked in the "heat" of things, was lining up/centering with the background. There is an actual center window, but my attention was so much on "ok, I just have to at least get this shot before I can't". Therefor I missed opportunity to really position everyone and angle myself to get the bride and groom directly center with the center window. This I believe might have alleviated some background distractions if everything flowed.</p>

[michaelchadwickphotography]

<p>When one is rushing to get photos in a short amount of time, background sometimes gets ignored. I just recently realized I had messed this up in Central Park's Conservatory Gardens, when I placed the bridal party in front of a wonderful path with gorgeous trees embracing the overhang and a fantastic overall view. Then I noticed the building behind them in the distance, a nice warm red brick building with two round windows... right behind the bride's head. It turned her into Minnie Mouse. The windows were perfectly in the place you would put mouse ears. Easy enough to Photoshop out, but it did remind me to make sure I'm looking behind my subjects! : )</p>

[savagesax]

The groom looks like he hates the bride! Tilt their heads closer together and turn the groom more in a 45 degree angle, which will make him nore macho looking.

[savagesax]

I would also turn the bride. She is too square. If you watch the background the ladies look great, aligned with the windows. The B&G, along with the guys are not centered to the windows.

[pete_s.]

<p>I would like to have a less ceiling and more floor. Right now the composition places the faces in the center of the frame.<br>

And also when you include a lot of straight lines you have to make sure they really are straight. This shot is not level, it leans to the right. The lens you used have some significant barrel distortion so I would correct that.<br>

I would also lower the exposure on the windows.</p>

<p>While the groom looks a little stiff and the groomsmen like a sports team I think it's a shot that the B&G will be very happy with. And that's ultimately what matters.</p>

 

[fotografz]

<p>What a beautiful Bride! She looks like a young Mary Taylor Moore.</p>

<p>Personally, I wouldn't crop the ceiling much ... the sconces add to a sense of the place. I'd add to the foreground floor, and to the left side while slightly cropping in from the right to balance the centered formal composition.</p>

<p>With the time constraints you had (been there many times), and size of the group, and backlighting ... you basically created your own problems with the placement of the three subject elements. </p>

<p>There are three different planes of focus requiring you to stop down enough to get them all in focus ... which in turn places more requirements on the speed-light to light that deep into the frame ... which it was obviously unable to do. So, there are also three different lighting planes with the girls being the furthest and the most poorly lit.</p>

<p>While I applaud the effort, unless you have adequate lighting with you, and enough time to set it up, I'd avoid this sort of compositional construction, and strive to keep as many of the subjects on a relatively similar plane of focus, and a closer plane of lighting.</p>

<p>Color balance in situations like this is critical and should be done in camera using a custom (manual) white balance which most cameras can do in seconds. The closer you can get it to what the eye sees, the easier it is to evaluate exposures and then make minor adjustments in post.</p>

<p>Here is my take on it which of course can't include posing changes, but can give some sense of cropping and perspective corrections:</p>

<div></div>

[fuccisphotos]

<p>Also, just as a note, were there windows on both sides? If there weren't you could have had the wall as your background. Yes, not as dramatic a backdrop, but no back lighting to deal with if you are in a big hurry. Just make sure they don't stand too close to the wall or you will get shadows from your flash. When in doubt and in a hurry, go for the safe shot that you know you can light well, etc. I find that is more important in the end to clients than a super pretty background. Especially in the case of formals, because what they care about is a well focused shot that they can easily make out the faces of their bridal party people who are obviously very special to them.</p>

[dan_mays1]

<p>I would have framed the shot before bringing them in and then just brought in the B&G and center them. Then bring the others in and place them. Then just move in or out to fit them in the frame. In this case, if possible, I would have steped a few feet back so you could still get the celing and get the more of the floor. </p>

[christopher_ellington]

<p>Everyone, this has all been awesome feedback for things to think of in the future and ways to help improve not only this image, but other images.<br>

This is actually the best part in the whole room to take a group photo. There are some blank walls, but with other "setup junk" in the space, the other side has windows and a door leading to the outside patio where they sometimes have ceremonies, the other wall has a double swing door for the cleaning crew, etc. Outside was wet from earlier rain pour. So traveling around the building would have lost the time the bride and groom wanted with their guests. So this was kind of on the fly and what I had to work with. Overall, they were happy with preliminary shots that I showed them (showed about 80 on a web slideshow).<br>

I definitely need to make sure that I'm 100% clear whether the bride and groom really want to avoid the time after ceremony to take shots knowing that it takes time to really get things the best as possible. I did know that and it was established that they didn't want to spend a lot of time taking photos, but what wasn't clear was how little time. I have myself to blame for not confirming that nor knowing that another wedding was to follow.<br>

I am going to work around with the image a bit to make it the best I can. I assume this bridal party shot will be one of the 5 that I promised to do in depth retouching for large print/frame output.<br>

Watching out for each individual will be important for me. To at least keep in mind some basics (posture, what they're holding if anything, how their hands are placed, angles, hair, etc) to where it becomes natural to skim through each person quickly to make adjustments. As well as paying attention to the background and framing for a complex shot.</p>