XTol Film Dev Discontinued?

[todd frederick]

I was told by my local darkroom supply store (Kamera Korner in San

Jose CA) that Kodak XTol has been discontinued by Kodak. I truly

think the manager meant that the 1 letre size was discontinued, but

the 5 litre size is still available, which they don't stock.

 

At any rate, I can't get the 1 litre size locally, but I can get

Ilford Microphene at the same store.

 

For black and white photography, I use Tri-X only. Kodak XTol gave

me beautiful negatives, and prints.

 

I bought 2 packs of Ilford Microphene powder at Kamera Korner, which,

I was informed, is the same a Ilford DD-X liquid. I like DD-X

liquid, but can't get it locally in San Jose, and must travel about

100 miles round trip to get it at a store in Palo Alto, CA.

 

Hassles upon hassles!

 

Any thoughts or suggetions on this "marketing" problem?

 

Also, AND MOST IMPORTANT, any suggestions on using Ilford Microphene

with Tri-X at ISO 400?

 

Any thoughts on this are most appreciated.

[lex_jenkins]

I wouldn't be surprised if the smaller package was discontinued. Besides being uneconomical to produce and buy, I keep hearing reports indicating that there may be problems with consistency in smaller batches. Years ago, before I began preferring liquid concentrates for convenience, I bought powdered developers only in fairly large packages. Maybe that's why I never heard of any problems 'til recently.

 

Reminds me, I have a small package of Xtol unopened. Be interesting to test the stuff.

[scott_eaton]

I knew it, HC-110 will outlive us all and be the last commercial film developer on earth. :^)

[henry_friedman]

Why switch from a developer you like, for the convenience of the local shop? Ask your local supplier to stock a small amount of XTOL 5 liter. If they won't, buy mail order, and have it delivered to your door - no more hassles. I store mine in four one liter bottles plus an air-evac container, so they are all always filled to the rim. XTOL stored in this manner has a long shelf life.

[conrad_hoffman]

Two words, Todd: "mail order". Lots of good suppliers out there. You also seem like a good candidate to abandon the ever changing world of premixed soups, buy a few basic chemicals from Photographers Formulary, and mix your own. I made this switch a few years ago and have never looked back. I mix what I need, in the quantities I need it. It's the same every single time, and I don't have to worry about my favorites being discontinued.

[dan_smith]

Xtol can be an excellent developer & I don't see The Yellow Peril discontinuing it. If it works for you, follow the suggestions & get it by mail order or go to another photo store that keeps it in stock. It is capable of producing excellent negatives when it works, so if it does work for you there is no need to change to something else.

[lex_jenkins]

"Yellow Peril". Hee! I agree, I can't see Kodak discontinuing Xtol completely. Heck, it's "environmentally friendly" compared with other chemistry - wasn't that one of the factors touted when Xtol was introduced?

 

BTW, wasn't Rodinal "discontinued" earlier this year? Seems like every time a camera shop doesn't want to bother stocking something they lie to their customers about availability. Makes me wonder whether they tell their employees their paychecks have been "discontinued".

[photojim]

For the record, Microphen isn't at all the same as Ilfotec DD-X. Microphen is, if memory serves, a metol / hydroquinone developer. DD-X is a sodium ascorbate developer similar to XTOL.

 

I like DD-X (to the point where I'm considering using it in lieu of XTOL, which is getting hard to find here - but my dealer does get 5L packages of it occasionally). I like the fact that XTOL is a powder and will keep more or less indefinitely until you mix it, but I had a 5L package of it go bad the same way the 1L packages do, so the problem Kodak has been having isn't entirely solved. You will recognize it if the smaller packet's contents are solid, and not free-flowing. (Discard the developer or return it to your dealer for a refund if this happens; don't use it.)

[michael_briggs2]

Ilford describes Microphen as a "fine grain film developer that gives an effective increase in film speed", while DD-X is described as "a fine grain developer that gives full film speed."

 

The developing agents listed in the MSDS for Microphen are 1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidone and hydroquinone.

 

The developing agents listed in the MSDS for DD-X are hydroquinone and 1-phenyl-4-methyl-4-hydroxymethyl-3-pyrazolidone.

 

The developing agents listed in the MSDS for Xtol are 4-hydroxymethyl-4-methyl-1-phenyl-3-pyrazolidinone and Sodium isoascorbate.

 

My understanding is that the developing agents with elaborate names are relatives of phenidone. I'm not an expert on organic chemistry--I assume that the order of the names doesn't matter, which means that DD-X and Xtol both use the same phenidone-related agent.

 

The short summary is that the two Ilford developers are both phenidone/hydroquinone types, but are not exactly the same, while Xtol is a phenidone/Vitamin C type.

[john_hicks___]

> two Ilford developers are both phenidone/hydroquinone types, but are not exactly the same, while Xtol is a phenidone/Vitamin C type.

 

That's correct. I believe the reason for the different version of phenidone in DD-X is for storage as a liquid concentrate. The Ilford ascorbate developer is Ilfosol-S; it's phenidone, hydroquinone and sodium ascorbate. None of these are the same as Xtol.

 

Microphen usually gives 1/3 to 2/3 stop more "real" speed than the standard D-76/ID-11 1:1, or I'd expect it to give roughly the same or perhaps 1/3 stop more speed than Xtol; I'd just use the speed of the film in Xtol as a starting point. Note that Microphen can be used diluted and gives the usual slightly higher acutance and slightly more graininess when used that way. Microphen usually needs somewhat less development time than DD-X.

 

A new ascorbate developer on the market is Paterson's FX-50; it's divided into two containers of concentrate, mix as needed. It's nice with TMX but imho is a non-starter for Delta 400. I don't know how it is with TX but could be worth a try.

 

My local supplier has decided that we're all digital now so many items other than the generic yellow-peril stuff are hard to come by. I've gotten used to mailordering from B&H or Calumet; even with the shipping charge on a sizeable order the price is usually the same or lower than it's been from the locals. My standard developer, though, is D-76H; a pound of metol, five pounds of sodium sulfite and a box of Borax and I'm set for a long time. I don't like the idea of depending on a developer (for most standard work) that's difficult to get or has to be ordered from somewhere or other; I remember the last time Rodinal was off the US market for a year or so, and that was a royal pain for a while until I got reoriented to a developer I _could_ get.

[fpa]

And to think I'm trying to understand the economics of my local P&S shop (hard to think of them as a camera store anymore), which won't stock X-Tol (or HC-110), but does keep D-19 on the shelf. Someone in marketing decided that B&W photography meant only stocking supplies that don't produce grey tones?

 

At least they're up front about it. They never say, "It's discontinued" they always say, "we don't stock it; have you tried a pro-shop downtown?"

[William D. Lester]

My local suppliers don't stock Xtol either. They simply order me the minimum quantity which is 20 5-litre packs. It works for me and doesn't cause them any hardship. I do try and buy locally. It's a kind of use it or lose it thinking. Increasingly, I find myself having to order more and more of the particular materials that I use. As long as they continue to be willing to order them for me, I'm fine with it. I just have to plan ahead a little.

[john_hicks___]

> D-19

 

I too thought that was odd until I learned that photo students at the local schools play with Kodalith or Agfa Ortho regularly.

[mark_sampson]

Kodak.com lists XTOL in 1-liter and 5-liter mixes. Kodak "Professional Stockhouse" catalog shows 5-liter and 50-liter mixes. Go to the source for the answer.

[todd frederick]

I didn't intend to start a brew-haha here concerning Xtol. I do think the store manager was indicating that the 1 liter packs were discontinued since that's all he ever stocked anyway.

 

Somewhere I read that Microphene was the powdered form of DD-X...I guess that was way off. Anyway, I bought two 1 liter packs of Microphene. What can I expect with regard to results using it with Tri-X at 400 at 68 degrees, or should I just return it. How is old D-76 with Tri-X?

 

What I liked about both DD-X and X-tol with Tri-X is the nice fine grain, good resolution, and long tonal scale I got with those developers. Not contrasty like T-Max. I'm trying to find a local source for these developers in 1 liter sizes so I don't have to drive a hundred miles or so to get DD-X. Yes, there is mail order.

 

I live near Gilroy California (a photo store desert) which is about 25 miles from the only decent store in San Jose (Kamera Korner), which is another 25 or so miles from Keeble and Schuchat in Palo Alto, which does stock DD-X...or did, the last time I checked.

 

I'm trying also to avoid storing liquid chemicals and hunt for brown glass bottles.

 

Maybe I'll just use chromogenic film and avoid the whole development step alltogether! ;o)

[squareframe]

Todd,

 

repeat after me, Microphen, Microphen, Microphen.

 

what I cannot find at Pro Photo Supply in Portland, I simply add to my orders from Calument. no problems, great service, chemicals on the shelf in two/three days. I have been using Fuji NHZ in the Rolleicord you sold me, and leveraging the colour channels in the monochrome mapping. Kodak T400CN works wonderfully well too.

 

sold the farm, moving to Port Townsend, Washington, bought a sailboat, and heading to the South Pacific. will send images. how's your retirement?