Details on Linhof and Arca Swiss

[michael_fox]

I'm trying to find *detailed* info on the Linhof Technikardan and the

Arca Swiss F-line (I believe) in order to compare and contrast and

evaluate which one to buy. I got a color brochure on the Linhof at

my friendly neighborhood pro camera store but would like more detail

and can't find anything on the Arca Swiss at all.

 

For those familiar with Hasselblad, I'd die for something like "The

Hasselblad Manual" - book by Wildi. As it stands now, I can't even

figure out what the difference is between the various F-? types of

Arca Swiss.

 

The company websites for Linhof and Arca Swiss are pretty sparse.

Anyone have any pointers?

[upscan]

Michael: brochures, unfortunately are one of the poorest way of evaluating a camera. Brochures trumpet or embelish the good stuff but are silent on the rest. Second to getting the camera in your own hands I have found the camera's instruction manuals to be the best approach. As you know, I am sure, studying the instruction manual is like studying the camera without the marketing person whispering in your ear. Quite often I find, that the hype of the brochures evaporates into the cold reality in the instruction manual. That said, Linhof's advertising is one of the best and most honest, and as for Arca, there is none. Notwithstanding, I think, the manual is usually most honest of all!

[michael_fox]

Completely agree. That's why I'm looking for more info. Any idea where I can get a copy of the manuals? Are they available somewhere in PDF?

[ed_candland1]

Here's a camera store with most of the specs. Also I have a pdf I'll try to find and send becasue I forgot where I found it. ;-)

 

http://thefstop.com/equipment/new/arca/arca.html

 

Ed,

[jennifer_waak]

My Arca didn't come with a manual -- it's two standards, a bellows, and some ground glass. You loosen a knob, see what comes loose, etc. Not too tricky. I'm not trying to be smart-a**, I desperately wanted one when the camera came since it was my first large format camera. But, in hindsight I'm really not sure what it would have said.

<P>

The F-Stop in Illinois has really good Arca product information on their web site. <A HREF="http://thefstop.com/equipment/new/arca/arca.html">The F-Stop</A>.

<P>

I used the web site I mentioned above and the B&H web site to get the product specs I needed to choose a camera. They don't say anything about how well a camera handles, but will tell you everything you need to know about whether something is geared or not, the amount of rise or fall, etc. Then, read through the archives here to get the user experience.<P>

-Jen

[tim_atherton2]

I've got the arca pdf, but it's 4.5mb - let me know if you need it. That combined with the info on the fstop site gives you lots.

 

There seems to be a dearth of similar good info about linhof cameras online - the linhof site doesn't ahve that much on it - especially the sort of detail you're looking for.

 

Do linhof still produce the sort of books on the system they made in the 60's and 70's - one of those would have what you want.

[bob_salomon]

"Do linhof still produce the sort of books on the system they made in the 60's

and 70's - one of those would have what you want"

 

A German version of a new instructional Linhof book was introduced at

Photokina last month. It is not yet available in English and won't be for at least

half a year.

[brian_ellis3]

There are two detailed reviews of the Technikardan by two owners (well one owner and one former owner) on Tuan's large format home page, with quite a few additional comments by other users.

[golliegwillie]

Micheal I have sent you the complete Arca Swiss catalog in PDf. It's quite a big file- I didn't realize how much so until I hit the send button. Even my cable modem took two minutes to send it out- I hope you're not on a dial up connection with a low mb mailbox limit. In any case you've got a email from me with 4mb file attached on the way. Sorry about the size- if I had been thinking straight I would have emailed you ahead to make proper arrangements. I would have prefered to just point you to the site I got it from, but I have no idea how or where I got it.

[david4]

Only the 4 x 5 Arca Swiss can be modified for 5 x 7 and 8 x 10 formats. Only the Arca Swiss can accept lenses whose rear element has a diameter exceeding 80 mm (the vast majority of 4 x 5 lenses have rear elements with a diameter less than or equal to 80 mm). Only the Arca Swiss can be fitted with an accessory that allows asymmetrical focusing (a significant advantage only in product focusing; far and near landscape focusing is extremely easy with the TK central axis lens tilt feature). The standard extension rail of the Arca Swiss is only 30 cm, wheras you can get 48 cm with the TK standard extension rail. Only the TK has a gauge for measuring extension (which aids calculating the compensation needed for close-up photography).

[michael_fox]

Thank you all for your generous responses. The one thing that I had heard was better about the Linhof for a beginner was that it had optical axis tilt as opposed to base tilt like on just about every other camera out there. The Arca Swiss orbix feature seems to take care of that issue by adding axial-tilt. So, aside from lensboards being rather large and the rail perhaps not being as compact, it seems that the Arca Swiss is where I'm now leaning... We'll see.

 

For any arca swiss or Linhof shooters out there, I be interested in hearing your views and experience on availability of support/service/accessories for either camera. Thanks.

[al_seyle3]

Is weight a factor? If so, you should be aware that both of these

are heavy beasts compared to wood fields or Toho. They are,

however, wonderfully made precision instruments.

[ed_candland1]

A couple of points. If your shooting landscape you might not need/want all the extra features like Metric/Orbix etc. They add weight and cost. If your shooting arch. or studio then you might want these. As for the big lens boards, it's common for field users to use reduction adapters that use Linhof Technika or the smaller AS 6 x 9 boards. There's also a field version that you can buy in the U.S. that uses a 6 x 9 front and a 4 x 5 back. But be warned it has less rise and fall in the front so it's better for landscape only and not as good for arch./studio.

[ed_candland1]

P.S. the Classic has a rail that telescopes from 12-18 inches. The compact is only 12 inches and folds in half (without adding on a extention). BUT, the standards on the classic can be moved to one of the short rails and the rest of the long rail can be stored some place else in your bag so it's not as bulky as it sounds and the rail is longer and I belive a bit more stable...There's much on this subject on older posts. That's where I got this info. ;-)

[michael_fox]

Thanks for everyone's generous and informative responses. RE the latter comments on weight... Yes, weight is a concern. But my experience (at least with 35mm and medium format) is that the lenses far outweight the camera so I'm thinking that an extra pound or two on the camera is not going to be my biggest problem.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>The one thing that I had heard was better about the Linhof for a beginner

was that it had optical axis tilt as opposed to base tilt like on just about every

other camera out there. </i><P> Actually I find the base tilt design to be a lot

easier and faster to use than axis tilt design cameras based on my experience

with both. but your mileage may vary.

[bob_salomon3]

"*detailed* info on the Linhof Technikardan"

 

You can always call us with questions not covered by the brochure. 800 735-

4373. If you are in the U.S. you could have had your hands on both the TK,

the Master Technikas and the Arca cameras at the NY show last week.

[arne_croell]

"Thanks for everyone's generous and informative responses. RE the latter comments on weight... Yes, weight is a concern. But my

experience (at least with 35mm and medium format) is that the lenses far outweight the camera so I'm thinking that an extra pound or two on the camera is not going to be my biggest problem."

 

Well, for 4x5 an extra pound or two is equivalent to 2-4 lenses, at least if you stay clear of lenses that come in no. 3 shutters. You might want to check out Kerry Thalmanns web site on this topic:

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/lightwei.htm

[emmanuel_bigler]

Arca has presented at the 2002 Photokina a new 4"x5" camera with a substantial weight reduction. The reduction is obtained by sacrificing

the back tilts and by totally redesigning the 4"x5" back for maximum weight reduction. This saves weight and lowers the rear standard with respect to the mixed 6x9-4"x5" 'field' type. The new 4"x5" camera is lighter than the 6x9 F. It is very similar in spirit to the rest of the F line except for rear tilts and is of course fully compatible for all accessories.

 

The amount of tilt you get is still plus or minus 30 degrees with the front standard only, a standard very similar to the 6x9cm standard (same lensboards). I've seen and touched the camera here in Besançon at the Arca Swiss International office. The rail folds up instead of down and the whole camera can be protected in a nice leather case. The model I've seen was equiped with an Orbix at the front. If you think about it when do you actually need more than 30 degrees of total tilt in landscape photography ? Take a f=150 lens set it a 1,50 metre on a tripod and tilt the front standard to get the foreground sharp according to Scheimpflug's rule. For this you'll only need 1/10 radian i.e. about 6 degrees of tilt. You still have 24 degrees extra for you fantasies.

 

Actually the choice between an Arca and a Technika is very difficult. Both a are cameras that will survive you. Once folded a Technika is incredibly compact. One of the main difference is that the Linhof can be used hand-held and has a rangefinder (the master and tech III-IV-V, not the 2000). If you like landscape photography and large format for what you can get from a 4"x5" slide or neg, a hand-held camera maight be for you.

 

If you like to own a camera that is part of a system expandable probably "beyond the limits of your imagination", the Arca is for you. Both cameras have a very strong style and a comparison is always difficult. Folding or monorail, the eternal debate.

[ed_candland1]

The poster was concidering the Linhof Technikardan not the Technika. :-)

[emmanuel_bigler]

Ooops ! sorry - Technikardan. So it is a compact monorail against another compact monorail, you loose the protection offered with a folding. Then the Arca system is more versatile since you can re-use 4"x5" standards for larger formats, for example 5"x7" or 8"x10". Or you can upgrade a 6x9cm Arca F to a 4"x5" ; you cannot convert a Technikardan 6x9 to a Technikardan 4"x5". If you do not care for these arguments on format change, then it will be more on how you fold/unfold the cameras, pack them and manipulate them. And OK I'm biased since I could easily find the opportunity to manipulate an Arca and not a Technikardan. Definitely the question on how you feel with the gears, movements and setup procedure is something difficult to judge on ASCII text only.

[bob_salomon3]

"you loose the protection offered with a folding"

The TK was introduced in 1985. We have sold 1000s since then. The

protection offered by folding has never been an issue.

 

perhaps it can be turned around. With a folding drop bed mechanism there

are more things that might go wrong. Although we have been selling the

Technika since the 70s and that too has not been a problem camera.

 

Perhaps by "protection" you are referring to the ground glass? On a TK you

can always add the same Folding Focusing Hood as the Technika uses. Or

buy one of the slide on protectors like the ones sold by PhotoMark in Phoenix.

Or by Gary Robinson in CA.

[ed_candland1]

I think the "protection" issue would mostly deal with the bellows being exposed. I have heard others comment about the bellows getting damaged on the TKs. Plus the cost of replacement is like all thing from Linhof, well not cheap.

[bob_salomon3]

"I think the "protection" issue would mostly deal with the bellows being

exposed. I have heard others comment about the bellows getting damaged

on the TKs. Plus the cost of replacement is like all thing from Linhof, well not

cheap."

 

We sell very few replacement bellows a year. The major reason why a

standard bellows is replaced is because the camera was not opened or

closed properly, according to the directions, replacement due to wear from

rubbing against something while folded is very small. No greater then the

numebr of MT Technika bellows that are replaced a year from wear.

 

Many users simply wrap their TK up in their dark cloth when putting it in their

pack. Some also use what was originally called "Linhof Camera Wrap" which

was made for us by Domke to wrap a TK up for carrying. This was introduced

just after the TK at the request of Lou Shu.

 

After 3 or 4 years Jim Domke decided he wanted to offer it as Large Lens

Wrap and we gave up Linhof Camera Wrap. Currently, if still available, it

would be sold by Tiffen.

 

Novoflex has just introduced their wrap which is available in 4 sizes up to 19 x

19". This would easily replace the original Large Camera Wrap should one

feel that it is needed for additional protection.