CF card errors (again!)

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>Maybe someone can figure this out for me!<br>

I recently posted about card errors here: <a href="../beginner-photography-questions-forum/00YWfb">http://www.photo.net/beginner-photography-questions-forum/00YWfb</a><br>

I did tests and all seemed "fine" with these new cards. I just recently shot a wedding using these same cards and had a few files that had problems (maybe many more, but these are out of my selected images to edit!)<br>

Unlike the last set of problem images, which were totally damaged and I couldn't compare what was on my computer vs. what was on the card, these I still have on the CF card itself.<br>

What happens afterwards is what's strange.<br>

Here is an example of what happens when opened in Camera RAW, directly from the card: <br>

<img src="http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277431546_j4MbcT3-A-LB" alt="" /><br>

<a href="http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277431546_j4MbcT3-A-LB">http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277431546_j4MbcT3-A-LB</a><br>

(and also what it looked like in LR, on the hard drive I was working from)<br>

but then a couple seconds later, it flashes to this:<br>

<a href="http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277431555_LFsKS2N-A-LB">http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277431555_LFsKS2N-A-LB</a><br>

and opens in PS as the correct image, it would NOT do this in LR.<br>

Again, another damaged file in LR: <br>

<a href="http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277435337_pCZFnhf-A-LB">http://dunksphoto.smugmug.com/Other/test-shots2/16905627_9BMHZL#1277435337_pCZFnhf-A-LB</a><br>

(ignore the "folder not found" I moved the files later)<br>

yet, when opened off the card in Camera RAW it is fully there?<br>

Any ideas as to what is going on? In the previous post/images, they were damaged in both RAW, PS and LR, and I didn't have the card to compare it to. I am still under the impression this is a faulty card and/or the card cannot keep up with the size of the raw files being written to it, but WHY then, would it appear as damaged, then sometimes not?</p>

<p>thank you</p>

[mark_sirota1]

<p>In this case, the JPEG preview that is embedded in the raw file is corrupt, but the actual raw data is okay. (It usually happens the other way, because the raw data is bigger and so it's more likely to be affected by a small error.)</p>

<p>You really need to just go buy new cards.</p>

[phule]

<p>Have you eliminated your computer or your transfer method as the source of the errors? Bad card reader, bad cable, bad USB connection etc. could possibly corrupt images. </p>

 

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>@Mark, okay, I didn't think of that possibility and yes, I did just buy a 16gb Sandisk 60/mb UDMA card, but since they're not cheap, I'm just starting with one and since I shoot weddings, I'm worried I may need to use those "bad" cards as backup. But if I do use them, I may only reserve SRAW or even jpegs, since the file size is much smaller and I would think/hope that the card could keep up.<br>

@Rob, I have thought about that as well. I use a PC-Dell desktop with a built in card reader. I could try to a separate card reader w/USB port to test further.<br>

thanks</p>

 

[Matt Laur]

<p>Regardless, you should NOT be directly opening file from the card. The applications you're using will then try to do things like render thumbnails, or write indexing files to the card, just like they would to a folder full of images on a disk drive. Just don't do it. Mount the card on your computer, and use the computer's file system to copy the files over to your drive (and your backup drive(s) ), and dismount the card cleanly using the operating system's method for doing that, and THEN point your editing applications at your working folder full of images.</p>

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>@Matt.<br>

From what you are saying, I believe that is what I do: <br>

1) Insert CF Card into reader<br>

2) open folder<br>

3) select all files<br>

4) Copy and Paste into a new folder on my Hard Drive.<br>

5) Open Adobe Bridge and/or LR and go from there (LR I would Import the folder)</p>

[john_deerfield]

<p>Well there is no doubt you have corruption going on... the issue is to find the source of the corruption.</p>

<ul>

<li>Did you format the card in the camera prior to using the card. If not, you really should. Along the same lines, never let the computer erase or delete or format your memory card. </li>

<li>Are you shooting Raw or Raw + JPEG. For professional shoots I always shoot Raw + JPEG to avoid this very issue. It will be unlikely both files are corrupt.</li>

<li><em>How</em> are you importing the images. You shouldn't simply be "copy & pasting" them from the camera or card reader. You should use some sort of <em>utility</em> to <em>import</em> the images. There is a difference.</li>

<li>When you are done importing, don't allow the utility or program to "delete or erase images". See step one!</li>

<li><em>Where</em> are you importing the images? Using a dedicated media drive is going to be faster and safer than simply importing the images onto your boot drive. Your boot drive is where everything else such as your OS and programs are. It is unlikely that a virus is causing the issue, but then again, you simply never know. Keeping a separate drive and importing the images bypasses the copy & paste command.</li>

</ul>

<p>Maybe this sounds somewhat... conservative? But many years ago we did a shoot where several hundred images were corrupt. Never really figured out why but I learned a bit about directories, file systems, transfer protocols and a bunch of other stuff I haven't really used since. However, I did alter my workflow based on what I had learned. Most of that workflow is outlined above. I also quit using Firewire and USB drives (both require a bridge to communicate with the processor). And I quit using a Firewire card reader and switched to a USB reader. USB sends information in packets <em>requiring</em> the computer to reassemble. Firewire does not. At the time, I was using a Firewire reader. Now maybe I went over the top... however, I never had an issue with that same card again (leading me to believe it wasn't the card), and in the past 6 or 7 years since I have had maybe 3 corrupt Raw files (and the JPEG was still intact each time).</p>

<p>All of that said, I probably wouldn't trust that card again unless I identified something else in the workflow causing the issue.</p>

 

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm worried I may need to use those "bad" cards as backup.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>No matter how expensive or inexpensive a card may be, nothing is more expensive than losing images you were paid to get! Cards are relatively cheap (my first 1GB card was a couple hundred of dollars but that is simply the cost of doing business). I would <em>never</em> use a card I didn't trust for a professional shoot.</p>

[brittany_r._dunks]

<ul>

<li>Yes, I formatted all cards prior to use</li>

<li>I do not shoot raw+jpeg, given the size of the files but maybe I will for security. I can shoot smaller jpegs too, which will take up less space</li>

<li><em>I do copy and paste, so the "utility" I should use is different? maybe you mean the Windows pop up that asks me what to do when the card is detected? I turned those notifications off, but maybe that's what I should be using</em></li>

<li>I don't delete anything on the cards when finished uploading. the only time I delete is when I go to use the card next, after backups have been made and I delete by re-formatting</li>

<li><em>All files are uploaded w/a built-in CF card reader. I first upload them to an external drive, used soley for photos. I have seperate drives for my OS system, another internal for DATA (where I upload a 2nd backup to) and then 2 externals (one almost full and used for other media also) Virus is unlikely since I just had my PC wiped clean and upgraded by a professional company, everything is working very efficiently.</em></li>

</ul>

<p>I agree, I am weary to trust this card(s) I have two that I bought together, and then another one that I"ve used for a year + that has never caused me a problem.<br>

I do still lean towards believing it's the individual card, but I will be using my 60mb/sec card once it gets here the most! hopefully I will avoid these problems </p>

 

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>@John- Agreed! I was so worried to use the faulty cards, I just didn't have much choice at the time, since I ran out of space on my other cards. </p>

 

[AJG]

<p>If you are shooting JPEG files as a potential back up, shoot the largest ones your camera will give you. If you do need the JPEG to save the image, make sure that it doesn't lose anything more than you have to. Memory cards are cheap these days even for the highest quality ones compared with losing images for a client, so don't hesitate to get more. </p>

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>@Andrew- Yes, you are SO right too. I'm just being cheap, it's not worth the risk. Just ordered another Sandisk 16gb 60mb/sec for this weekend's wedding. <br>

Now I feel more secure. Losing the $90 I spent on those two cards is way better than losing images!!!</p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Since these sort of things can be caused by a wide range of culprits as Rob states I'll submit my CF card issues and how I fixed them. Mark's suggestion of the embedded jpeg preview getting corrupted makes sense since ACR/LR updates and replaces the incamera provided jpeg preview with its own default settings. This never happened to me but see if this helps...</p>

<p>I had some trouble with my CF card's icon not showing up on my computer's interface until I noticed the tiny plastic contact dividers were breaking off and/or bending once I inserted it into the memory card reader. It took me awhile to figure this out because I couldn't see this happening inside the reader. I ended up just pulling the dividers off that were broke and it fixed it. See below.</p>

<p>You might try a different memory card reader and/or CF card because some brand's electrical draw specs might not match up with a particular computer's USB specs for any particular port. This happened to me, but all it did was cause my power supply's protection circuitry override to shut down my computer immediately without warning. No data corruption, but not ruling out the possibility. I might have been just lucky. </p>

<p>Different computer brands may have different override mechanisms in place that may take the form of data corruption instead of computer shut down. It could be caused by transfer or insertion into reader and/or the combination of the contact divider issue and reader electrical requirements. </p>

<p>My suggestion is to come up with a process of elimination that's the easiest and least expensive for you.</p><div></div>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p><em>I do copy and paste, so the "utility" I should use is different? maybe you mean the Windows pop up that asks me what to do when the card is detected? I turned those notifications off, but maybe that's what I should be using</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I would not copy and paste. Depending on <em>your </em>workflow (and everyone's workflow is somewhat personal in nature), I would simply use Lightroom to import the images. Otherwise, I am pretty certain that Canon camera come with an import utility and I would use that. In my case, I use Image Capture (I am on a Mac) to import my images to a folder where I separate the Raw from the JPEG, and then I import only the Raw files into Aperture. For what it is worth, I had a student last year that when he copied and pasted the images he got a black border around the images. The resolution was correct, just that the image was smaller within the black border. By importing them using the utility, the image was again, the same resolution, but without the black border. My point being that there is a difference between using an import utility and simply copying and pasting.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>All files are uploaded w/a built-in CF card reader. I first upload them to an external drive, used soley for photos.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>If it were me, and this is just me, if that external drive is Firewire or USB, I wouldn't import the images from the reader to that drive. I would indeed import them first to the boot drive and then use Lightroom (assuming the Lightroom library is on the external drive) to import the images. This bypasses an "internal" step: USB or Firewire devices use a "bridge" protocol to communicate with the processor. So if you import from the reader the info goes first to the computer and then through a bridge to reach your hard drive. The less going on during the original import, the better as far as I am concerned. And I should state that part of my philosophy is grounded in the fact that there is SO much more going on behind the scenes using a computer than I know about. So I error on the side of caution to avoid potential issues.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>one almost full and used for other media also</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Always keep at least 10% (if not 20%) of your hard drive free. It is quite possible that this might be the source of the problem. It becomes harder for your OS to find the space to store the files the fuller your hard drive gets. If this is a 1TB drive (or about 940GB useable) I would only use about 800GB. I am not saying this <em>is</em> the source of the issue, but there isn't anything good that can come from it.</p>

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>Okay, so the "correct" image uploading process for me, since I do not use Mac is probably going to be:<br>

1)Insert CF card into reader <br>

2)Import to "boot drive" (I am assuming you mean where my OS and programs are?) or to the drive where my LR catalog is?<br>

3)Once imported to the hard drive, (which one should I be using? the data drive, the external or the one w/the OS on it?) I can use the files how I see fit? (my workflow is mostly Bridge, but I go back and forth w/using LR for initial edits, then export and finish the rest in Bridge/PS CS5).</p>

[brittany_r._dunks]

<p>^^^I'm sorry, <br>

Import with Lightroom! </p>

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Try this, Brittany. The following I do and never have any problems on my 2004 G5 iMac transferring Pentax PEF to my hard drive.</p>

<p>I use a USB SanDisk MobileMate SD card reader receiving power through the USB port with a SanDisk 1GB Ultra II card. I double click on the icon that shows up on the desktop and tunnel down until I find the folder that contains the Raw images. I drag and drop this folder onto my desktop. Once it's finished transferring I click the Eject button within the OS interface within the open window of the clicked on CF card drive icon. Windows has similar OS interface navigation.</p>

<p>I then give the new Raw image folder a custom name and drag it to my folder that contains all my other image folders transfered the same way. I open Bridge and find and click on that folder where then all the thumbnails show up. I double click on the thumbnail and the Raw image opens in ACR.</p>

<p>I have never used any "Import" worded function in Bridge to open my images. Lightroom may require "Import" only opening of images. Not sure, I don't have Lightroom, but see if you can double click on a thumbnail in Lightroom to open it.</p>

[john_deerfield]

<blockquote>

<p>2)Import to "boot drive" (I am assuming you mean where my OS and programs are?) or to the drive where my LR catalog is?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>If you hard drive is USB or Firewire, then yes, I would <em>import </em>(not copy and paste or drag and drop) the images to the boot drive. At this point, I would doubt I would use Lightroom but probably Canon's import utility. I only say your boot drive (OS and Programs) because during the import, I don't want the image data being transferred through a bridge connection. Now if your external hard drives are SATA connected, then I have no problem importing them directly to that drive and even simply importing them via Lightroom. And I do recommend that the Lightroom library be on it's own drive. I also can't stress enough that their is a difference between importing and simply just copying the images. But to each their own. When I say import, I am referring to getting the images (which were created using a different directory on a specialized computer, you camera) off the memory card in a way that the computer understands exactly what it is bringing into it's directory structure. Once <em>imported</em>, you can copy and paste the image file all day long. It is that acquisition process that concerns me.</p>

 

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>3)Once imported to the hard drive, (which one should I be using? the data drive, the external or the one w/the OS on it?) I can use the files how I see fit? (my workflow is mostly Bridge, but I go back and forth w/using LR for initial edits, then export and finish the rest in Bridge/PS CS5).</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>In terms of overall workflow I will try to respond to your other post as I have the time.</p>

 

 

 

[ricd]

<p>Hi <a href="../photodb/user?user_id=4128029">Brittany R. Dunks</a><br>

At home take a few photos then transfer them, as you did for the wedding shots, to your computer. Do they appear the same as the wedding shots? Have you tried other cards as well. Maybe it is the card maybe it is the camera. <br>

Cordially,<br>

RicD</p>