holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>I had posted last night or so I thought... regardless I will start over! I am a mother of two and a full time college student. Since my husband has been deployed for this last year I have looked into a new hobby and way to destress. I have always loved to take pictures but have never ventured out or learned more about photography except where my point and shoot can take me. Most of that as been just tinkering around with different settings when taking pictures. So needless to say I looked into learning more and becoming a more serious photographer. I am completely overwhelmed by all the lingo and choosing a new camera. I want an entry level dslr. I like my point and shoot but I have outgrown it and want to grow further. I have looked into courses but right now I am overburdened to take on more college at the moment so I have ordered a book that was recommended on a few sights: Teaching Yourself Visually if I remember correctly so I am waiting on that in the mail. I have also looked into some other books at the library and store but I am really confused. I know I am a great hands on learner but when it comes to reading I have to really have an interest to retain it. I do have the interest to learn though and I am determined to get the technical lingo and all that. Basically I am looking for any suggestions on cameras, learning techniques, other books or basically any advice or suggestions. I am trying to stay on the low end of price for a new camera but I am willing to spend more for something better if that would suit my needs more. By the way I am really just interested right now in taking pictures of my kids and scenery and my environment. I have gone and tried out some camera and pretty much feel comfortable with the vast majority. I have very small hands and I am petite so I feel more comfortable with small to medium size cameras. Any advice or suggestions greatly appreciated. And if my other post did post and I just can't find it than this one has more information than I put in the other!<br> <br />Much appreciation and thanks!<br> Holly</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewg_ny Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>The good news is that there's no 'wrong' decision among entry-level DSLRs--they're all very competent. My personal history with DSLRs is Pentax (the K-x or newer K-r are great choices) but it doesn't matter all that much. Best if you can handle the camera before buying as some will just feel better (sometimes with Pentax it can be harder to find these in retail stores), you'll like the ergonomic choices the camera designers made better. Suggest picking it up with the typical 18-55/3.5-5.6 kit lens.</p> <p>Consider buying used as well, because the older models were great too. The very latest offer HD movie modes, live view (compose on rear LCD rather than viewfinder) and generally somewhat improved high ISO for better low-light pictures but none of this is really necessary for great still images--you could learn more about what you like on a used model, and then you'll be able to choose its successor without much help from anybody because you'll already know what you do and don't like, what sort of images you like to shoot, and which things annoy you the most about your first body. If you're wary buying used, consider KEH.com, they may not be the very cheapest but they are honest with their condition evaluation and will accept returns if you find something wrong during the eval period.</p> <p>For learning, one thing is to find an outlet that inspires you to keep at it. A class can help with this but they tend to be kind of expensive, and your schedule may require more flexibility. Another idea is trying a project like photo-a-day or something like that--there are groups on Flickr (for example) where people share these and provide mutual support.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will buy used first as you suggested. I am just not too savvy on all the lingo as far as what I am looking for I don't mind either a viewfinder or live view but have more experience with live view so I think I might stick with that in the beginning. I know absolutely nothing about lenses and what type to get or anything. I also have been putting confused about stabilization. I have no idea what to look for in that aspect. I don't care to have video capability on the camera so I sort of know what I need in some aspect but in others I am lost!! Completely confused even when trying to understand it all. I am searching for a group and such but I am also getting ready to move in July to a new duty station in Washington so I am searching out there as well right now. Going to another school is definitely out of the equation for me for at least another 6 months but I am really ready to start learning at don't want to wait 6 months so I am looking at books, online tips, etc. to help me along and hopefully that can get me started. Thanks for your suggestion I will check out that website for a used camera and see what they got as soon as I figure out the lingo so therefore I know what I am buying!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_mays1 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>I have also heard that Proud Photography is a good place to start. It is a learn at your own pace program. They will review your work and give you feedback. It is also not that expensive. I think like $116. <a href="http://proudphotography.com/">http://proudphotography.com/</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_mays1 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>For me, a good starter lens (unless one comes with the camera) is a good 50 mm lens. Although not structured, youtube has lots of helpful information. Three things to learn first will be ISO, Aperture and shutter speed and their relation to eachother. Once you get that. You will be much less overwhelmed. You can read about it and still get pretty confused. I would suggest watching a few youtube videos on those. Another REALLY good book is Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>[[The good news is that there's no 'wrong' decision among entry-level DSLRs--they're all very competent.]]</p> <p>Andrew is spot-on here. Buy an entry-level DSLR that 1) you can afford and 2) fits your hands well. </p> <p>Do not worry about the terms or the technology. The best teacher will be experience and practice. If you buy something inexpensive (relatively speaking) then you can gain knowledge and understanding by simply using the camera and will have a much better idea where you'd like to go with your photography. Buy the entry-level model and, again as Andrew points out, include the kit lens (usually some form of 18-55mm). </p> <p>If you try and figure everything out before you buy a camera, you will never, ever buy one. (This is often called Paralysis by Analysis). Sometimes you just have to jump into the deep end and learn how to swim.</p> <p>The best advice I can give is this: practice, practice, and practice some more. Don't be afraid to try something new. Don't be afraid of producing terrible photos. You /should/ produce a ton of them. That's the joy of digital: near zero-cost to learn. Don't be afraid of using the more manual options your camera will provide. But most of all: have fun with it. If you get stressed out about the whole process you won't enjoy photography and that will be reflected in your images.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>thanks! I will check that out. I am looking right now at nikon d3000 because of the guide mode, like cheating it seems but I need all the help I can get right now!! And also the canon eos rebel xsi. I have looked at many websites recommendation and they all pretty much recommend the same cameras but these are the two I know I can get my hands on in a store to see which one I like best. However I will be looking to be used or refurbished if at all possible. Any suggestions on these two?? or others</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMiller Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Hi Holly, First - go to a good camera shop if possible and handle as many of these cameras as you can. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Panasonic etc - make does not matter - you need one that feels comfortable in your hands. You need to know that the controls are easy to reach and use. As a beginner you do not want to be overwhelmed with gizmo's, so ignore any sales person who goes on about mega pixels, movie modes etc.. The camera needs to be comfortable in your hands, otherwise YOU won't be inclined to pick it up and use it. I have used Nikons for over 40 years, mainly because they feel right in my hands. When I started the Canon's felt clumsy to me. You do not have to buy from the shop, you may choose second hand, but at least you will know what your choice of camera feels like. I too would start with something like a D90 and kit lens (18-55 seems a standard these days) or a D3000 - then as the others suggest, practice and practice. As you get along, make sure to remember this site as there are always people here to help - no matter how silly the question may seem. We are all still learning, some of us just started a long time ago.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Rob- you definitely said what I needed to hear. I think I am going to just look into these cameras and see how they feel for me and go from there. I am going to be driving crosat s country when I move and I am really excited to see what I can capture while traveling. I also looked into the courses Dan suggested and I think I might go for that since its online and self paced just to give me a heads up. I think I will learn better and alot faster with practice rather than overthinking everything so I might be taking the plunge here soon ( like in the next couple of days when I get out to the stores) and buy a camera that just fits to me</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddler4 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>All of the relatively recent Rebels are highly capable cameras. The only suggestion I would make is that if you look at used ones, you might want a new enough model that it comes with the kit lens (18-55) that has IS (image stabilization). That lens is much better optically than the non-IS 18-55 version that came with the Rebels at least until the XTi (400D). However, the XTi is nonetheless a very good camera for learning. I would not worry about live view. It is a relatively recent addition to SLRs, and while it is useful for some purposes, most people with SLRs shoot most of the time with the viewfinder.</p> <p>Personally, I would stick with the camera and the kit lens initially, and spend time reading and practicing. I would start by learning the basic controls and how they relate to each other: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. They control exposure, blur from motion, and depth of field. You need control over those to start. As soon as you understand these, start using the camera in something other than automatic mode.</p> <p>There are lots of good books around, but this is so distant in my past that I don't know of any offhand. Check out the "learning" forum on this site--lots and lots of helpful discussions and instruction.</p> <p>And have fun. Instead of worrying about what you don't yet know, focus on the next step, and enjoy each additional thing you learn.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydesi Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Buying a new DSLR online from either of the big online retailers, Adorama or B&H, is a good idea. The price can't really be beat. The downside is that you can't touch the cameras through the internet. The best thing to do is to find a local camera store, get your hands on each of the models, and see what they feel like in your hands. While the capabilities of every brand's entry level DSLR are more or less the same, the ergonomics differ, so you should find the model that feels comfortable to you. Regardless of how capable the camera is, if you find it uncomfortable to hold and use, it's wasted money.</p> <p>If you're going to buy used, you can still hold similar models in the camera store, and then buy a used similar model from KEH.com. Their grading is very favorable to the buyer, in that the item is typically in much better shape than their grade suggests. I typically buy lenses from them at their bargain grade, which is only two stops from the bottom, and I've often been hard pressed to see why it wasn't rated as "like new".</p> <p>A great book to buy once you've purchased your camera is either a Field Guide or one of David Busch's books devoted specifically to the model of camera you've picked. General books can give you an idea, but these books are tailored to your specific camera, so you won't have to figure out how to do something specific on your camera...the book will tell you. These books pick up where the camera manual leaves off; the manual tells you how to use the given functions of your camera, the books will tell you why you would use one feature over another.</p> <p>Once you make your purchase, stick with the kit zoom (typically 18-55mm or so; try to avoid superzooms that might go from 18-200mm) until you feel limited in some way by the lens...maybe it's not wide enough, or you can't zoom in enough for what you're shooting, then buy to meet the need. It's very tempting to flesh out a "kit" once you start learning and seeing what's out there, but again, if you never use these other "cool" lenses, it's wasted money. One of the first lenses people will try to talk you into is a 50mm prime lens, because it's cheap, so why not? Well, the reason why not is that it's still $100 down the drain if you find all your needs at 50mm met by your kit lens. I followed that advice, bought the kit lens, and now it just sits, collecting dust. I've used it a few times, but I really don't need what it offers for the kind of shooting I do.</p> <p>As far as learning about photography in general, this website has a great learning section that breaks things down into small chunks, so you don't have to pile your way through a whole book, reading a lot of information but retaining only a little of it. Plus, it's free!</p> <p>The odds are good that the first weakness you'll encounter with your camera is that it's hard to take good pictures indoors, especially when it's only lit by lamps rather than a lot of sunlight and you'll quickly find that the pop-up flash on your camera doesn't cut it. A decent external flash will help you a lot, rather than a faster lens. However, cross that bridge when you get there.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_stephens Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>What photographic limitations are being created by your current camera?</p> <p>I am often impressed when reviewing my photos that many of my favorites were taken with a simple camera. There are of course limits that these cameras have, but you didn't say what you weren't able to do with your existing camera that you hope to do with a new one. That would influence your purchase, I would think.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Mostly zooming. I can't get as clear or as close as I need to in order to get what I am looking for. It also is just pretty basic and old so I think that doesn't help that it is consistently changing the flash itself. I think I have a malfunction in it but I have had it for many years and it has done me really good for my everday basic pictures and I will keep it because of that. It is very handy and I always carry it on me since I take pictures almost daily. I just want to go further. I have the interest to take pictures and I am almost always framing people, places, etc for pictures in my mind but the camera just now isn't cutting it for what I have in mind most the time. As far as the other posts I am definitely just sticking with those lenses in the kit for now. I need to get acquainted with those first before I tackle more. I am going by a store this afternoon to get a fill and see which one works the best as far as fit.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steinen_robert Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Holly,<br> Your post indicates you are associated with the military. You might want to check with your local MWR folks to see if there is a Photo club at the post nearest you. Good luck to you and your husband.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Have a read of this:<br> <br /><a href="00YDgf">http://www.photo.net/beginner-photography-questions-forum/00YDgf</a></p> <p>WW</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p> Yes we are we are stationed at fort campbell,ky right now about to PCS to fort lewis, wa. Didn't even occur to me to check it out with the mwr, thanks for the suggestion</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Thanks for sharing William. I am guessing the moral of the story is to stick with the lens kit before jumping the gun on more expensive gear that I may not end up using much if at all. I know at this point I need as basic as they come to get my feet wet.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_j2 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Holly,<br> Whether you buy new or used, don't forget that the User's Manual that is normally supplied with the camera you choose can be very valuable in the learning process too. If you buy used, most manuals can be found online. I would suggest you download the .pdf and keep it on your computer.<br> Many, including myself, carry my User's Manual's as part of my normal "packed gear."</p> <p>Best wishes in your choice, and safe travels in your cross country move.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcuknz Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Just to relate two experiences ... I am a confirmed Bridge camera user and they do pretty well all that I want to do. One exception was the ability to do extreme close-ups and utilise the extension tubes and bellows I have from film days. For this rare and unusual need I decided I would get myself a DSLR and found a professional photographer who had continuously updated and had a 'third' camera sitting idle. I bought this and found he had only used it for around 5000 shots which is nothing when one expects a DSLR to handle 100,000 before maybe having problems. No lens of course so I bought an old compatible film camera [ Canon EOS]and am using its lens in the digital camera ... I could get a better lens but the difference for my limited purposes is so small I'm not spending so far.<br> Second story, researching B&H for another newbie such as yourself, I discovered a Nikon DSLR which four or so years ago had been their flagship, body only for around US$350 and a lense to suit perhaps another $100. From an IQ point of view quite superior to anything I'm currently using and happy with. Some photographers 'use' their cameras up but others have a limited use before 'upgrading' for the latest model despite the fact that the camera is good for many more years and thousands of photos more. <br> I think you can trust B&H, and other firms mentioned here, to truthfully describe the goods they are selling though obviously they are not physic. Unless a new camera has features you know you will <strong>need</strong> a good s/h will serve you well until you know why you want to do better/diferent. Digital cameras are a temporary thing, unlike film cameras which lasted and were expected to in good working condition for decades*, and seemingly are discarded well before their useful life has ended. <br> *Until I dumped my film gear last year, I had film cameras in good working order of between 50 and 80 years old.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holly_ardoin Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Well.... that was not too good a trip I like both the canon and nikons I looked at. I checked out the nikon 3100 and it I good reach the dials and bottons well. I then tried the cannon rebel t3 and I felt the grip was a tad more comfortable than nikon however I was shocked at the amount of buttons what not as compared to the nikon. so I am pretty in between at this moment. I know alot of people are devout nikon or canon fans and a lot of discussions partake but I don't care either way about the brand. I could not get my hands on a sony as I was hoping and the olympia one I did not like the feel at all. Any suggestions</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydesi Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>As a Canon guy myself, I like having the buttons, because once you get comfortable with the camera, you can press the ones you use/need most without ever looking away from the viewfinder (and I'll admit, when I first heard this, even after having the camera in my hands, I was skeptical).</p> <p>I'm not familiar with Nikons, so I'm assuming that instead of the buttons, you have to navigate menus on the rear screen to accomplish the same thing. If that is the case, then I would find that to be a hindrance, always having to pull the camera away from my eye. The only alternative that I can imagine if it isn't menu driven is that you'd have to push multiple buttons at the same time, which is almost equally unattractive, in my opinion. Again, I'm not familiar with Nikons, so I may be wrong. I'm sure someone will chime in if I am.</p> <p>In either case, I think you'll be well served by either Canon or Nikon, especially if you decide to pursue photography to a greater degree; both have top-notch lineups of lenses that can't really be matched by the other companies. While most people probably will never own a lot of them, and there are redundancies in the lines both by grade (consumer, prosumer, professional) and focal length, having many choices is a great deal better than being limited. After all, there's always lens rental if you need a specialized lens for a specific purpose, and if the lens isn't made, it can't even be rented.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <blockquote> <p><strong>Well.... that was not too good a trip I like both the canon and nikons I looked at. </strong></p> </blockquote> <p>Actually it was a very instructive outing.<br> You learnt that (even though a small sample group) Nikon and Canon are easier to acquire than other brands. The fact that the Canon feels better in your hand is something you should note. You learnt that you were shocked at the number of buttons - but was the functionality of the buttons explained to you? If not - then having the button where they are might be better suited to you, you hands and how your brain works - but if you don’t really know what the buttons do then you could just be a little stunned by the number of them.<br> So just by what you have written I can see that you actually achieved quite a lot - and you achieved much more - but you haven't written about that</p> <blockquote> <p><strong>Any suggestions.</strong></p> </blockquote> <p>Yes, I do.<br> Go back to the store and invest about an hour and an half with EACH camera and walk through the fundamental usages of both. TAKE PHOTOS. For a very small investment you could buy a small capacity memory card for each and record your test shots.<br> Yes, it is likely that the Sales Assistant will not be used to nor be ready for someone to invest that much time testing out two cameras: that is their problem, not yours.<br> The handbooks for both cameras will likely be available on line and you could get a reasonable overview of how each works beforehand.</p> <blockquote> <p><strong>“I am completely overwhelmed by the entire lingo”</strong></p> </blockquote> <p>Reading through the user manuals, will give you a great advantage, IMO.<br> Don’t try to understand everything, all at once.<br> Don’t try and use technical words if you don’t know what they mean.<br> If the sales assistant says a word you don’t understand ask what it means.<br> Understand the basics of how to take the pictures in different shooting modes and how to make some menu changes to do that – what you are learning is the BASIC FUNCTIONALITY of how to get around the menus to make the camera work and how that menu working, interacts with how you think: it is very likely that you will like the functionality of one camera more than the other – but you won’t know which until you play with each for about an hour: this combined with how the camera feels in your hands - are your two primary goals. </p> <p>Good luck with it.</p> <p>WW</p> <p>P.S.: Here is a leg up for you:<br> <a href="http://www.usermanualdownload.com/canon-t3/">http://www.usermanualdownload.com/canon-t3/</a><br> <a href="http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16910/~/user's-manual---d3100---guide-to-digital-photography">http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16910/~/user's-manual---d3100---guide-to-digital-photography</a></p> <p>P.P.S.: By the way - after investing three hours trying the two cameras; you have an incredible buying leverage.<br> On a rainy weekend, read: <strong><em>Herb Cohen's</em></strong> views on that. </p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_south Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I wouldn't recommend a used camera to a first-time buyer. Too many things to go wrong and too many unscrupulous sellers. I also wouldn't recommend a fixed focal length lens like the 50 mm that someone mentioned. Too limiting, The kit zoom lens that comes with the camera will work fine. A bigger question than brand is type - compact point and shoot, EVIL/micro four thirds, or crop sensor DSLR. Personally, I think a Rebel is hard to beat for the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_stephens Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>I keep coming back to this question: Without seeing this person's photographs, and without knowing the interests and future interests, what is the basis for so many people recommending a new DSLR camera? How do we know that a newer, nicer P&S isn't the right "upgrade?" Based on the specific statements made by Holly here, the typical DSLR with it's numerous buttons and 150 page manual might not be a good fit at all. How many times has she said she is confused by terminology? Three? Four? What will happen when faced with a 150 pages of "Japanese Camera Lingo?"</p> <p>I know I am not in the mainstream here, but is a DSLR the "right" camera for everyone? Really?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_drutz Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 <p>Whichever camera you buy, get the "Digital Field Guide" to that camera. It's really three books in one. The first goes over all the features and controls of that camera in a very clear way. The second is a basic photography guide geared specifically to that camera. The third is a glossary of photographic terms. It's a very well spent $20.</p> <p>You said that one of the problems with your P&S is that the zoom is not telephoto enough. If that's the case, the kit lens, which is usually an 18-55, will also be too short. Whichever entry level camera you get, you may be able to get a kit which also includes a 55-200 (or similar) at a good price. If you decide on Nikon, get the D3100 instead of the D3000 or D5000. It has a newer sensor and processor.</p> <p>If all this sounds confusing, it's because it is confusing. The advise I'll echo is too take it in small bites. Read one short section at a time. Do some reading and some shooting and ask us when you have questions.</p> <p>Welcome to the forum.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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