recovering data from degraded CD-R?

[peter_e]

<p>Are there any ways of recovering data from "old" CD-R's that have become unreadable? In this case, I have two copies of a data CD-R (Imation) that were created 11 years ago (identical copies), and both have become unreadable, i.e. PC (Vista) cannot boot them. Vista either crashes momentarily or asks to reformat the disks. Copies were kept in CD case, away from light, used maybe 3-4 times since they were made, clean condition, no scratches. I know there are programs to recover data from scratched or damaged disks, but can they read degraded disks?</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Sometimes I've found they can be read on a different CD ROM drive, but more and more, digital rot is taking its toll.</p>

[homer_arment1]

<p>There are a few programs that will attempt to read from an 'unreadable' CD but I have never had much success with them.</p>

[marc_bergman1]

<blockquote>PC (Vista) cannot boot them.</blockquote>

<p>Are these bootable disks or do you mean that Vista will not read the files on them?</p>

[dennis_oconnor6]

<p>Reading articles on the web has a variety of safe storage times for digital media. In the early years of digital storage they thought that data was safe on a CD for 30 years under ideal conditions. They have since revised this down to less than 10 years. Valuable data should be rewritten onto fresh CD/DVD's at regular intervals of much less time for safety. I am not taking into account any degradation of the data that may occur during copying operations. If you do attempt to use software to recover your 'lost' data, be prepared for a long wait, these softwares are not quick. Best of luck.</p>

[peter_e]

<p>Marc: Vista can't read the file directory. We have tried several CD drives. We are trying to locate one of the slower/older CD drives in the hope that they may be less sensitive to data degradation than the newer high-speed drives.</p>

[dennis_oconnor6]

<p>Peter have read of this post. 'How do you save your digital files' in this forum.</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>did you try a dvd drive? OR various operating systems?<br>

I was late getting a cd-r so my cd's are not that old.</p>

[peter_e]

<p>Dennis: How does the post you mention address my question? This is not about archiving digital files now, it is about recoving older CDs. Interestingly, Imation on the website still recommends these CD-Rs for archiving data. You can argue if this means 30 years of 100 years, but certainly more than 10 years.</p>

[paulie_smith1]

<p>Add one more problem here. Photoshop CS5 will not read any images from Kodak Photo CD's.<br>

Was forced to upgrade with the new computer as the older version would not work right with Windows 7. Now I find I can not open any images from the Kodak photo CD's I have.<br>

How long until we can't open RAW files in future Photoshop and other programs?<br>

I can still print and enlarge from glass plates from the 1800's. I don't have to constantly update or copy and re-copy and transfer the image from them. It is still there, still fragile, but still usable.<br>

I shoot a lot of digital work and see this as becoming an even bigger problem over the next few years.</p>

[homer_arment1]

<p>That isn't really correct Paulie. Color negatives degrade over time as do color slides. Even black and white negatives can degrade if they weren't fixed and washed properly. They can also be attacked by fungus over time. And for printing a glass negative, you may have a bit of trouble finding a negative holder these days. All media have storage problems that should be taken into account. With film media you need archival storage containers and humidity/temperature controlled conditions. With digital media you need good storage media and you need to be aware of the service life of the media.</p>

[peter_e]

<p>Complete loss within 11 years for digital vs. some fading over 100 years for film. These are quality CD-Rs (with lifetime warranty), stored in an airconditioned office under optimal conditions in their jewel case in a file cabinet, no labeling on the CDs. These CD-Rs were, and still are, sold as archival media.</p>

[mark_gerard_haley]

<p>Hi...I had this happen to me with two DVDs. I had backed up some RAW files on DVD useing windows vista and when I tried to read them only a few months later I couldn´t, I tried this free program I found on the net <a href="http://www.oemailrecovery.com/cd_recovery.html">http://www.oemailrecovery.com/cd_recovery.html</a> and got most of my files back. I now don´t trust DVDs at all and use an external hard drive as well.</p>

[dennis_oconnor6]

<p>Peter. Your CD's have degraded in about 10 years, for whatever reason. I don't believe manufacturers suggestions, they want to sell discs! The reason for the reference to the post was to help you avoid the possibility of a repeat occurance in the future.</p>

[adriano_carbone]

<p>If all conventional recover methods fail, you can try to use Acrilic Black Spray Painton upside disk. Be careful not to get the bottom side.</p>

<p> </p>



[peter_e]

<p>Adriano: can you tell us what the paint is supposed to do? By upside, do you mean the side with the label?</p>

[paulie_smith1]

<p>In the not too distant past I attended a conservators symposium where specialists from George <br />Eastman House and Eastman Kodak stated clearly that 'if you want it to last, back it up by shooting and processing silver based negatives using accepted conservation standards'.<br>

They said all digital media, of any type(including dept. of defense & government) loses information within a few years and properly processed and stored silver negatives were the longest lasting practical storage media available.<br>

As far as printing from glass plates, some of us have the holders and materials needed. They are also easy to make if those we have disappear somehow.</p>

[dennis_oconnor6]

<p>Paulie.<br>

Thank you for confirming the 'digital data storage time limitations' information which I posted earlier.</p>

[paulie_smith1]

<p>I do wonder at what future generations will do for images of their history.<br>

Right now we go into attics and drawers and find 100 year old Kodak B&W prints. We find old B&W prints from drug stores and whatnot. we find color prints, many of which are fading away faster than many of the B&W prints.<br>

That color negs and chromes fade away is not disputed. Same with poorly processed B&W negs. Many of the early labs had good qauality control and that is why we still have so many of these prints and negatives in shoe boxes and whatnot.<br>

What will be the fate of a whole shoe box of 300 CD's of images - say Kodak Photo CD's? Or RAW format images. In 20-50 years? Will we even have the software to read them any longer? Will we even have CD readers or will they go the way of the old 4 and 8 track stereo players?<br>

Cheap CD's lose information fast, within months. Better like the Gold CD's are supposed to last a lot longer. But, some remember Epson yellow ink on the "200 year" prints, it started fading off the paper within 6 weeks.<br>

A lot of digital is wonderful and opens new avenues for some of us. Large Format and film is wonderful and platinum/palladium, carbon tissue and traditional silver prints are great. But poorly processed and/or stored work is at risk there as well. Nothing is perfect but we know silver negatives last because they have. I am still waiting for a good conservation method for digital images. Having to transfer and re-transfer every few years is time consuming. An Electromagnetic pulse wiping out much of the magnetic media is also a worry. Major sunspots to a nut with a nuke can do it. Lightning strikes too close can as well.<br>

Nothing is perfect and those of us who have lost images of all kinds know it. So, if you find a good way to preserve the current images I am all for it. Much of the digital stuff now of the new baby won't be around by the time the kid graduates High School, kind of like cheap color processing and printing has been over the past half century or so.<br>

All I can do is process my film for conservation and work with Gold CD's with digital and plan on checking and re-archiving every 3-4 years at the longest.</p>

[peter_e]

<p>Apart from my original question if there is a way of recovering information, at least partially, from degraded CDs, how do we know how long the gold CDs last? Clearly, the longevity of CDs has initially been overestimated. All these lifetime predictions are based on enhanced aging experiments (high UV light exposure, high temperatures etc) but these experiments do not necessarily mimic the natural aging process.<br>

We can re-burn CDs if necessary, but for that we need to know at what frequency. Also, the copying process can introduce data transfer errors.<br>

Film is not immune. The motion picture industry has major issues with preserving cellulose nitrate film.</p>

[ethervizion]

<p>For what it's worth, here's my philosophy on archiving and backup:<br /> 1) The reliability of <em>all</em> storage media should be considered a random variable. Regardless of manufacturers' claims, nobody will replace your data when it's lost.<br /> 2) Given 1), any archiving strategy should involve verification of the archive/backup at <em>regular, frequent intervals</em>.<br /> 3) Verifying a large collection of CDs/DVDs is impractical.<br /> 4) Given all of the above, my archive/backup strategy involves two sets of hard drives: i) one set running in a dedicated server (sitting next to my regular desktop), upon which daily incremental backups are performed (additionally, the HDs in the server are mirrored using RAID-1 so that I can easily recover from the failure of one of the HDs) -- this server can run diagnostics at a regular interval so I know if there's any data degradation; ii) a set of external HDs which I store offsite and do full backups to once a month.<br /> 5) If I were more paranoid than I already am, I would do the offsite backup once a week.</p>