Write Contract To Lawfully Not Photograph Gay Weddings

[daverhaas]

<p>Just as you can not refuse to rent to someone who is a minority - you can't (in most states) refuse to photograph someone due to their sexual orientation. Sorry - it just doesn't work that way.</p>

<p>In most cases Federal Law and in some state law makes it a crime to do so. It did in New Mexico - where the photographer refused to photograph the same sex union - I'm not a lawyer - but my guess is that he would have been better off (assuming he really didn't want to photograph their union by saying any one of the following: 1) I'm sorry, but I'm booked that day (and had proof to back him up) 2) I'm sorry but I don't work in that county / city due to travel (and had proof that he indeed did not work there) 3) I'm sorry - but I have a family engagement that date which I am expected to attend. 4) I'm sorry but just as you are screening potential photographers I screen potential clients and I just don't feel a connection or I feel a difference in style that I may not be able to provide you with images that meet your expectations. I've turned down bookings for all of those reasons - never have I turned down a booking because of the race, religion, sexual orientation or lifestyle choice of the customer. Nor will I ever. </p>

<p>Whether you personally agree with their lifestyle choice or not -doesn't matter - what matters is that you are trying to refuse them service on the basis of their sexual orientation - which is not allowed. Just as if you own a home and are trying to sell it or rent it - you can not discriminate on the basis of race - if a minority renter / buyer is qualified and makes an offer that is acceptable - you can't decline - just on the basis of race.</p>

<p>Best advice - hope that your business name is not the same name as you post with here.<br>

Dave</p>

 

[deanna_clarke]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm a Christian and because of my religious beliefs, I don't believe in same-sex marriage. I do not want to ever photograph a gay or lesbian wedding. I'm a private business, so should I be able to make my own choices of what clients I do business with?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If I were you, I would stop participating in this thread and consult my lawyer. I don't generally ask my lawyer about exposure questions or advice on tripods. Likewise, photographers aren't good for legal advice.</p>

<p>No, as a private business doing business with the public, you don't get to make your choices. In most states, you cannot say you won't photograph Blacks. You can't put out a sign saying "Whites only. Blacks are sinners." Even if that's what you believe. In some states, you cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation. That's a question for your lawyer. I, personally, would not recommend discriminating against traits like race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation because I think that's poor business practice. It's worse business practice to engage in discrimination without finding out whether or not it is legal for you to do so.</p>

<p>On a religious note, should you be condoning the marriage of sinners? I'd suggest using a broader brush and just say that you maintain the right to refuse service to any and all sinners. :-)</p>

[hugh_sakols]

<p>Ashley</p>

<p>I'm sorry you have been deceived by Satin himself. Your thinking is not at all Christian but rather satanic. Jesus was compassionate to all that came to him. I'm sorry about your eventual fate to the furnace of the underworld.</p>

<p>God Bless</p>

[goldbergbarry]

<p>Ashley - from viewing your portfolio, how are you sure that the people you photograph are not gay, or that the children are not from a gay couple? Since I didn't see any marriage pictures, I can only assume that you don't have a lot of experience shooting weddings.</p>

<p>Are you certain you want to take wedding pictures, after all, there may be Jews, Muslims and pagans attending? How about if the sister of the bride is gay and brings her spouse, will you refuse to take a family shot? Or if the parents are divorced? </p>

<p>In my opinion, sounds like you're getting into the wrong line of business.</p>

<p> </p>

[ulises_reath]

<p>Barry G., what portfolio are you talking about? I don't have a portfolio on Photo.net.</p>

[joseph_wisniewski]

<p>Ashley J, I've checked this in multiple versions, including annotated ancient Greek and Hebrew. Apparently, I have a lot better idea exactly what the Bible means than you do. But then again...</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>1 Timothy 2:12 (KJV) "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."</strong></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Oh, and Barry is probably referring to the portfolio of someone he found by Googling "Ashley Jackson photographer", like "Affects Photography" in Oklahoma or "Hello Beautiful! Photography" in Edinburgh. He didn't consider that it's probably a name you made up (you know, "bearing false witness") for this one post, and that you're accidentally doing a lot of harm to one or more people actually named "Ashley Johnson".</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>because of my religious beliefs, I don't believe in same-sex marriage... ...I do not want this to happen to me for standing by my beliefs.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Lets get over this facade about religious beliefs. Potential clients are not asking to you to marry them. They are not asking you to violate your beliefs. Nor is photographing a wedding amounting to an endorsement of it. It is merely providing photographic services. Nothing more. If you want to find out if you can and/or how to 'lawfully" discriminate against gay and lesbian people in your business dealings, consult with an attorney. If that doesn't produce desired results, you should examine whether providing photography services to the public is a really good fit for you.</p>

<p> </p>

[Hector Javkin]

<blockquote>

<p>... what portfolio are you talking about? I don't have a portfolio on Photo.net.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I won't put it up, to avoid giving you publicity, but I think he's referring to the one that advertises photography in Marlow, Oklahoma. That's not you?</p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>Ashley,</p>

<p>Seems that you joined the photo.net today.<br>

Welcome to Photo.net.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Seeing as he/she/it just joined today, probably just to start this fishing expedition. But they sure like painting targets on themselves for the ACLU.</p>

<p> </p>

[frank_skomial]

<p>See what business loss was reported in another gay wedding case.<br>

<a href="../wedding-photography-forum/00YAk9?unified_p=1">http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00YAk9?unified_p=1</a></p>

<p> </p>

[goldbergbarry]

<blockquote>

<p>Seeing as he/she/it just joined today, probably just to start this fishing expedition. But they sure like painting targets on themselves for the ACLU.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes and potential lawsuits assuming that she used her real name.</p>

[ulises_reath]

<p>If you check my profile on photo.net it says Burlington, VT.</p>

[enlightened-images]

<p>"Nazi's! Nazi's!" ***running around with arms flailing, trying to flee this tread as fast as possible***</p>

<p>But seriously, You want legal advice, ask a lawyer. No one is asking you to be gay, but geez, don't you think the 'higher road' answer would be to put aside your personal bias for four hours? Perhaps that's asking too much. I can understand the fear that you may wind up as seeing them as just other people no different or morally better than yourself. - Though I personally would find the less judgmental person to be a little higher on the 'moral' ladder.</p>

<p>An speaking of Nazi's; if someone came to me and asked if I would shoot a pro-nazi rally, I personally would opt to say no. Then again, I don't shoot events. However, if I was a photojournalist, and my newspaper said "go shoot this pro-nazi rally," would I? I a moment. Why? 'Cuz that's my job.</p>

<p>If your 'job' is a wedding photographer... well, you can piece it together, right?</p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>I think he's referring to the one that advertises photography in Marlow, Oklahoma. That's not you?<br>

my profile on photo.net it says Burlington, VT.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Hopefully other photographers named Ashley Jackson won't be negatively affected because of the post made by this particular Ashley Jackson.</p>

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>I guess it all depends on how everyone interpret freedom. Although I don't agree with her choice, she's the one making the choice. No different than any one of us imposing our beliefs on her and trying to prove her wrong. Respect. v/r Buffdr </p>

[sjgcit]

<p>Refusing to deal with someone on grounds of their sexuality, beliefs or race could be considered a crime in some places. You really need to consult a lawyer to check how your position fits in with the law.</p>

<p>I'd suggest just finding someone who will take that business and politely refer them to that business instead. Remember that any potential gay or lesbian clients would be doing you the honour of asking you to photograph their wedding.</p>

<p>Personally I take the view that Christians are supposed to be tolerant of other views. Perhaps you should also discuss your views with the appropriate religious authority as well, a pastor or a priest perhaps ?</p>

<p>I suspect you're probably heading for a confrontation with the anti-discrimination laws, and, to be honest, I'm not remotely sympathetic to your position, which I regard as too confrontational.</p>

 

[snik75]

<p>What would Jesus do? Discriminate, baby!</p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>I'm puzzled and I do think you would be setting yourself up as an obvious target for "sting" operations from gay rights activists. Even with a contractual exclusion, how would you defend yourself in court based on the religious beliefs argument?</p>

<p>Do you also plan to include contractual statements that you refuse to photograph at weddings for atheist couples? Or for couples between fiancees who were previously married and divorced and/or have children from previous marriages and/or children out of wedlock? Is the issue anything to do with being a Christian at all, rather than you being personally uncomfortable witnessing affection between same-gender partners, or (in other words) simply being prejudiced?</p>

<p>These are not attempts to slam or goad you, but kinds of questions you'll need well-prepared answers for. Even if your religious beliefs might be a legally acceptable basis for refusing services in some states or counties, then those are the kinds of things competent prosecutors would ask you, in a legal argument variation on Joseph W's funny yet serious challenge. Because any inconsistency on your part will disprove your faithful adherence to (your version of) Christian ethics, and thus demonstrate that you're only picking and choosing which precepts you like to follow and which ones you choose to disregard, i.e. you're applying personal prejudice rather than genuine religious conviction.</p>

[andrew_morton2]

<p>I live in Vermont, and in this progressive state not photographing lesbian and gay couples is a very poor business decision, regardless of your belief system. </p>

[funcrunch]

<blockquote>

<p>I live in Vermont, and in this progressive state not photographing lesbian and gay couples is a very poor business decision, regardless of your belief system.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I wonder if that's why the OP wants to find some legal way to avoid having same-sex couples ask for and receive her services. If she were in a less progressive state she might not think it would even be a possibility.</p>

<p>I live in San Francisco myself, but my mother-in-law lives in Vermont and my husband is visiting her this week. I'll make sure to tell him about this thread when he phones tonight, so he can let his family and friends there know who <em>not</em> to call if they are looking for a photographer.</p>

[craig_gillette]

<p>Simple. Work in a state that does not have same sex marriages. </p>

[hannah_defran]

<p>I suspect you're nothing but a troll but you have damaged the reputation of any and all who do business in this field with the name you chose. Ever heard of "libel"?.<br>

Move to another state and claim religious persecution.<br>

Or refer them to me, and I will PAY them to have the honor of participating in this country's move forward and away from bigotry.</p>

[ulises_reath]

<p>Hannah D., I'm the only photographer named Ashley Jackson in Burlington, VT. Do potential clients of other Ashley Jackson's Google "Ashley Jackson" and read every article that comes up. If they are that extensive, they must see that I live in Burlington, VT so it would not affect anyone else with the same name as mine. </p>

[ulises_reath]

<p>我是从火星肖像和婚礼摄影师</p>