Old, crinkled slides

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>I recently found in storage a collection of slides and negatives from a deceased relative. There are hundreds, if not thousands of shots here, and it looks like quite a fascinating collection documenting family and friends from the mid 20's on large format, to touring Europe post-WWII with a folding 6x9 camera, to shooting a slide film size I don't recognize through the 40's to early 60's (44x58mm), and then onto hundreds more shots on 35mm up until the early 80's.</p>

<p>I have access to a light table and a projector. I'm going through them looking for interesting ones and plan to scan the most interesting. I didn't expect to take on this project right now, but this feels like a gold mine find, so it's hard to pass up.</p>

<p><strong>My question for today</strong> is regarding this odd size of slide film (44x58mm). They were hand mounted in metal and glass slides (2 types, one from the 40's, one from the 50's). <strong>The slide film in many of these slides has become very crinkled.</strong> It also has a strong magenta hue, but that is less of a concern to me right now. All of the film that was not mounted is NOT crinkled. Only the slides mounted between glass is now crinkled.</p>

<p><strong>Does anyone know of a procedure for soaking these and flatten them for scanning? </strong>I plan on scanning them on my flatbed scanner with Vuescan (Canoscan 9000F--that's what I have).<strong> </strong><br>

<strong><br /></strong><br>

What I would like to try is to soak them in distilled water and/or photoflow and see if they loosen up on their own. If they do, I might just scan them while they are still damp under a plate of anti-Newton glass.</p>

<p>Can anyone think of a reason not to do this? Or can anyone think of a better approach? I've never done wet scanning before.</p>

<p>An alternative might just be to remove them all from their slides, place them in MF negative sheets, and then press them flat with some heavy books before scanning, (but I am very skeptical this will work very well, because they are crinkled and very rigid/crisp).</p>

<p>Thank you!</p><div></div>

[larrydressler]

<p>That looks like heat damage.</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Just scan as is the scanner software has a button that restores colors with one click.<br>

Heat damage is probably un-repairable.</p>

 

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>I chose one ugly looking slide, soaked it in photoflow for ~30 minutes, then dunked in distilled water to remove the suds. This made it considerably softer. I'm scanning this first trial as a sample right now (will post it in a few minutes), but I have a feeling that this wet scanning approach is NOT the best approach. There are some air bubbles that are nearly impossible to get out under the crinkles of the film.</p>

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>I scanned this with Kodachrome as the profile (in Vuescan), medium infrared cleaning, restore colors, and restore fading. I edited it quickly in PSE for leveling and cropping, contrast, and then size reduction.</p>

<p>This slide is particularly beat up, so this is my 'worst case scenario' attempt at recovery.</p>

<p>I think scanning this wet is definitely not the way to go. I don't think the Newton rings would be nearly as bad if I just set it on the scanner dry.</p>

<p>This picture, by the way, was taken on the day of Naval deployment. The people on these boats are Seabee's.</p>

<div></div>

[larrydressler]

<p>Better than I thought. keep at it.</p>

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>This is a scan of the very same positive you see above that had been removed from its glass slide casing--the one crinkled to extremes. Granted, I don't think I would ever make a print from this sort of thing, but it's not too bad for sharing with family online.</p><div></div>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>I think the crincles enhance it as a family heirloom - like in a portrait, old people are generally more interesting, the marks of life lived....<br>

Great picture, a fine gentleman nice children - where do you see people like that today?</p>

 

[larrydressler]

<p>in history books but not in color.</p>

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>What I find fascinating is that this photographer was very much a quiet, introverted individual, which means that not do no prints exist for these slides, but not a soul has looked at these slides in at least 30-40 years. They only exist here, and barely even in any living person's memories (only a few), yet many people will find these images breathtaking. There are many, many really great photos in this collection, including things like self portraits, of which no one has probably ever seen (and they are very well done).</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Prints from slides were not popular in those days. If you shot slides they were for projection and those were projector a few times by the look of them and the mounts they are in.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>Two possibilities. One is half-frame 120 film. The film stock is 62mm wide. A half-frame image is 45mm by 60mm. This sounds like what you have.<br>

The other possibility is full-frame 127. The film was 46mm wide. A full-frame image was 40mm by 65mm.<br>

Any slide film from that era needs stabilization (in a formaldeyhde solution) to set the dyes after you get it wet with water. So water is not a friend to these slides.<br>

The winkles are a shame. Humidity got in there, swelled the gelatin emulsion, but the film had noplace to go. The downside of glass mounts. Anything but maximum protection.<br>

I think taking them out of the mounts, and putting them under a stack of books, may be the best strategy.</p>

[AlanKlein]

<p>Good luck in getting these pictures in shape. What would really be nice is putting together a slide show on DVDs to be given to various family members who would treasure these pictures. Do you know who all the people in them are and are there still living relatives of the people in them? Alan</p>

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>John: Yes, I think you are right I think the format is 645. I didn't recognize it before when it was mounted in these slides because all the slides had masks, reducing the visible size of the film.<br>

And thanks for the input regarding water. I will pay attention to the slides I got wet in the coming days to see what happens to them.</p>

<p>Alan: Yes, I know virtually every single person in these photos. They are all close family, and there is a lot of family that will be completely blown away to see these (for the first time), now restored (to some capacity) and digitized.</p>

 

[indraneel]

<blockquote>

<p>in history books but not in color</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Slides are history!<br /> How about asking a photo restorer what to do? There are those who restore old motion pictures, from negatives and positives. Maybe the criterion collection has run into these issues?</p>

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>The older of the two boys in the last picture is now an old man. You can see him playing with his dog Daisy here (photo taken in November):</p>

<p>http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahbanach/5247119427/#/</p>

[larrydressler]

<p>Define old? Looks my age. :-)</p>

[alexander_banachevski]

<p>Old is relative term. :)</p>

<p>How about this for an old negative? This was developed on May 29th, 1926. I believe it was taken with a 6x9 folding camera. The woman on the left is my great grandmother's sister. She never married. Controversial for the times, she was a lesbian. These negatives have been locked away, completely untouched for almost a full century now.</p>

<p>I have one 4x5 large format negative in this collection from ~1890. It's in great shape too. Unfortunately, my scanner can't scan negs that big.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>where do you see people like that today?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>England. We all wear bow ties here!</p>

[erik_prestmo]

<p>Alexander you have a canoscan 9000? My 8800F will do negative nearly as big as that, I just put them on the glassplate an image is better than none, newton rings? Only I in the family know what they are! I just don't mention them, the rest are so exited over the old images they are beyond themselves.<br>

I compare images from old negatives and slides like that to small contact prints that have survived 3 childhoods, various moves and day to day life, the paper pictures are often far worse! I female friend posted a lot of old pictures on facebook, nearly all of them was wrinkled, bent & torn and in some instances out of focus in the contact prints, she would have fared better with the negatives.</p>

[alan_jones12]

<p>Your trial 1 result looks historically very interesting, yet trial 2 is better still as a photo. I would be interested in seeing how you progress through the collection.<br>

My problem was with 35mm slides that I took as a kid in the mid-1960's with Kodak Ektachrome and processed the films myself. <em>Then it was the E2 processing in the official Kodak kits.</em> Most were perfect shots of last runs of steam locomotives here in England. After about 15 years, fungal growth in the emulsion appeared and ruined them all. Having made enquiries at the time and being told that nothing could be done to restore the slides, I eventually threw them out in the 1990's. I now regret doing so. Do you have any similar problems? The chemistry side of photography I find interesting.</p>

[marc_bergman1]

<p>Our eyes are wonderful restoration devices.</p>

<p>I was looking at your second color example and my mind was able to look past any problem areas. I looked only at the people.</p>

<p>Even if you can't find a good restoration method I think this will become a wonderful project for your family.</p>

<p>My family didn't go color until the 1960's. Best of luck with your project.</p>

[jtk]

<p>Rather than opening and scanning you may be better off cleaning the glass without opening it, then copying using color neg film and macro lens/light box/copy stand, having an inexpensive lab scan the color neg film to their highest quality. That wouldn't be "theoretically best" but it would probably be better than all the handling and risk involved in opening the mounts. I wouldn't use slide film because it'll be hard to find a lab that wants to process/scan slides than negatives at time of development. The scans will become your archive, the negatives won't be as reliable through the generations because the remaining C41 labs are mostly using dubious chemistry (exception being professional labs that use replenished chemistry).<br>

The hassle and time would be a lot less than scanning, and you'd be taking less risk with the originals.<br>

If you want to print your own you might be satisfied with B&W rendition..that would hide some of the color irregularities and colorful stains. Upload the scans to Lightroom, which would help you organize them and allow you to non-destructively produce B&W versions while keeping the original color. Then print via Epson ABW system (eg 3880).</p>

[ncarnick]

<p>The shots are great. Congrats on finding them. I had some similar issues with slides found from 1958 (from and of my dad who died in 2007). However mine were not nearly as bad on the warping issue. I after flattening the slides out a little bit with some glass and a few books, I put the slides I liked in Gepe glass mounts and the scans came out okay (with some color restoration courtesy of the Epson scanning utility). <br>

I can't claim my process was professional or something you should duplicate. The only thing I am certain of is I was happy to find a few slides I found little use for to experiment on first. (I tried water with complete failure...I now wish I scanned the ruined slide as an example for others...sorry.)</p>

[James G. Dainis]

The slides have a nice antique look to them. I think that actually adds to the look and feel more so than if they were in pristine condition.