Do I need an Elmar and a 'cron?

[josh_carr]

<p>I'm looking for an unscratched Summicron 50/2 screwmount for my IIIa/IIIc/IIIf. I already have a very good red scale Elmar 50/3.5. Apart from making the camera pocketable, does the Elmar have any pictorial advantages over the 'cron? My experience with the Elmar is that it is very, very sharp at mid apertures but not especially good wide open (and you don't even get the trade-off of startingly shallow DOF). The bokeh of the Elmar is also good - see http://www.peeble.com/steam5.jpg - but the 'cron is legendary, isn't it?</p>

<p>Does anyone have both lenses and use them more or less equally?</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>I have and use the Elmar 3.5 on my IIIc and Elmar 2.8 on my M3. I've also used F2 Summicron on my M3. Since most of my photography is at f8, sometimes f5.6 and others at f11, I honestly can't tell the difference, among the three lenses. If you do a lot of available light the f2 may be the answer, but in Leica thread mount they are harder to locate and very price-y! Just my 2 cents....</p>

[ray_cutting]

<p>Roger<br />I have both, but my Elmar 50 is an uncoated version which renders differently, so i find it great for b&w if im going for that look, i also have a summicron rigid and a ver 4, i consider these to give a modern look as they have the coatings and give better contrast.<br />But to answer you question, should you have both?, i would say absolutely yes.<br />The Elmar makes a pocketable choice for those times you want a camera with you just in case.<br />And the big Summicron is the choice for those images you want to have sharpness edge to edge, they both have their purpose.<br />And of course they have the collapsable summicron which is also pocketable, which i don't have, not sure which one you are talking about.<br />But non the less, everyone should have a legendary Summicron, to which all others are compared to.<br>

I just remembered you where talking about screwmount, but answer still yes.</p>

<p> </p>

[josh_carr]

<p>Thanks - it would definitely be a collapsible lens, since the rigid one is about 2,500 GBP in screwmount due to its rarity. </p>

<p>My favourite 50 is actually the Summar - I have an unusually clean one! - but it's not a versatile lens due to its flare; it likes overcast days, shade and not much sky in the shot. Brilliant for things like bluebells or any other flowers in a dark setting, because they actually glow.</p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>As Ray said, you can get a LTM 50mm Summicron in the collapsable version.</p>

<p>I have both of these collapsable lenses but have never made a formal or even informal comparison. Just from casual observation though, they have completely different fingerprints, especially at wider apertures.</p>

<p>The Elmar has a very unique look with sharpness in the center of the image and blurriness toward the edges. This effect diminishes past f8. I like this effect for a lot of applications.</p>

<p>The Summicron exhibits more even sharpness across the area of focus than the Elmar, even wide open, and renders greater sharpness than possible with the Elmar, across the frame, when stopped down.</p>

[alex_lofquist]

<p>The Elmar could become handy if you ever get a Nooky for closeups. Otherwise, there is little advantage to keeping both.</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>Have your Summar cleaned -- the flare problems may get a lot better. It may also need some element edges painted black again. My Summar is water clear, and I've repainted those edges, and flare just isn't a problem.<br>

There are "NOOKY" units for any of these lenses, the NOOKY for Elmar, NOOKY-HESUM for Hektor, Summar, or Summitar, and SOOKY for collapsible Summicron. They are ingenious, but I'd rather use a macro lens on an SLR.<br>

The problem in shopping for Summar, Summitar, and collapsible Summicron is that they all have very soft flint (lead crystal) glass for the front element, so scratches are all too common.</p>

[jim_jones3]

<p>My first Leica came with a 3.5 Elmar, but I preferred faster Japanese lenses. I used a collapsible Summicron for years and loved it. It would still be the first choice for a pocketable LTM camera. The Elmar f/2.8 certainly equals it if the extra stop of speed isn't needed.</p>

[andresainderichin]

<p>I like the old, uncoated f3,5 a lot. It sits on an old IIc, and it's a wonderfull combination. My pictures in Oostende a couple of months back were all taken with it, on T400. http://www.flickr.com/photos/andre-sainderichin/sets/72157625659123051/<br>

There's an f2 on my IIIf, which is single coated, and gives a bit more contrast. Other than that (and the wider diafragm), I can't see much of a difference. The big plus of the f3,5 is that it collapses entirely into the camera body, so you really have a pocket camera.<br>

Considering its age, the f3,5 is a pretty amazing piece of kit.<br>

Cheers,<br>

André</p>

[andresainderichin]

<p>I like the old, uncoated f3,5 a lot. It sits on an old IIc, and it's a wonderfull combination. My pictures in Oostende a couple of months back were all taken with it, on T400. http://www.flickr.com/photos/andre-sainderichin/sets/72157625659123051/<br>

There's an f2 on my IIIf, which is single coated, and gives a bit more contrast. Other than that (and the wider diafragm), I can't see much of a difference. The big plus of the f3,5 is that it collapses entirely into the camera body, so you really have a pocket camera.<br>

Considering its age, the f3,5 is a pretty amazing piece of kit.<br>

Cheers,<br>

André</p>

[josh_carr]

<p>Well, the Summicron arrived today from Germany and (incredibly) it passes the flashlight test. The front and rear elements are as clean as a whistle and there's just a bit of haze inside (evaporated lubricant, probably; it is 55 years old). It's one of the last screwmount 'crons, I think.<br>

It's certainly good enough to use as it is, but as it cost nearly 300GBP I'll send it off for a CLA by Peter Grisaffi.<br>

I'll keep the Elmar for pocketability; if I had to sell a lens, I think it would be the CV 28/3.5, which I have barely used although it's a beautiful little thing to look at.</p>