stephen_james3 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>Hi Everyone,<br> I was recently attending a friends wedding recently and took some pics of the groom outside the church. It was an overcast day so I was using some fill flash -2 fec. on a 580 ex ii and 5d mark ii body. When I checked the results on my screen they were over exposed and so was the grooms face. I have heard that you are supposed to stop down when photographing a black tux, so I tried that and the images were still overexposed and didn't look natural at all !! I then tried a shot without the flash but they still came out a bit overexposed but really dull. Could someone please tell me what I am doing wrong in this scenario?? Apologies but I dont have an example to show as I deleted them from my camera. I love using flash on an overcast day, as i feel it gives a warmer feel to my photos, but I would rather not use flash at all and brighten them in post processing if this keeps happening. Any help would be great. Thanks in Advance!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_poel Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>Do you mean add some negative EV compensation or "stopping" down the lens to a smaller aperture? What mode were you shooting (P,S,A,M)? If you were shooting any auto or semi-auto mode and changed the aperture, then the camera would adjust the shutter (or possibly ISO) and still give you the same exposure. You would have to use exposure compensation (not just FEC) or shoot manual.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_james3 Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>Hi Jay, thanks for your response. I was shooting in AV mode. Sorry I should have clarified, I used -1 EV , while still using flash @ -2 fec and the image was still overexposed?? I then tried a shot without the flash and just left the -1 EV to compensate for the dark tux. The end result was the grooms skin was overexposed, but not as much as with the flash, however, the overall result was his slightly overexposed skin and a really dull picture!! Any help would be much appreciated thanks!!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydesi Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>Canon cameras use flash for fill in Av mode, and assume ambient light is your primary light source. What was your aperture setting? If you were shooting fairly wide open with the flash, it's possible that your camera couldn't select a fast enough shutter speed to give a proper exposure, especially if you had your ISO turned up, too.</p> <p>When you didn't use the flash, it's possible that, if the groom was very pale, that -1 EV wasn't enough to create a proper exposure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_ferris Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>stephen,</p> <p>Can you post the picture and the histogram? I don't use ETTL-II for this reason, results are too inconsistent, I use manual flash, either with or without manual camera exposure.</p> <p>But I appreciate that doesn't help now! What was the shutter speed that the camera chose? Don't forget with -2 flash EV and -1 exposure EV the flash is three stops lower than ambient, it should have very little to no impact on general exposure.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_deerfield Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <blockquote> <p>Don't forget with -2 flash EV and -1 exposure EV the flash is three stops lower than ambient</p> </blockquote> <p>Nikon cameras are cumulative in this regard, IE 1- EV and -1 FEC = -2 in terms of flash output. I was under the impression that Canon cameras and flashes do NOT work this way. Each is independent from the other.</p> <blockquote> <p>The end result was the grooms skin was overexposed, but not as much as with the flash, however, the overall result was his slightly overexposed skin and a really dull picture!!</p> </blockquote> <p>As to what was going on, without images we can only speculate. However, in regards to the above comment, a really gray, overcast day <em>is</em> going to produce a dull image. At that point it was the <em>quality</em> of your light.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_hall5 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>I think the issue here is that you had the camer in AV so the aperture was locked in. You dialed in -EV. The only thing the camera can adjust in AV mode is the shutter. However, with flash, your max sync speed is 1/200. That is unless you set it up for High seed sync. Either way, your camera was maxed out at the 1/200 sync speed and could not controll the ambient light. YOu needed to stop down the aperture. The camera should have a safety shift that you can turn on so that if the shutter is maxed out, it will shift the aperture for you even if you are in AV mode.</p> <p>Jason</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_hall5 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>Check the meta data for the image, I bet the shutter speed is 1/200.</p> <p>Jason</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maury_cohen Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>Stephen, the image on your LCD cannot be relied upon for perfect accuracy. I'd highly advise you look at these on your computer before passing judgment.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejchem101 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>I agree with Jason, as I have done this myself many times.</p> <p>Over - exposure is due to the fact that you are getting too much light. If you are in Av mode... you are telling the camera it MUST stay at this aperture at all cost. However, with the flash attached the camera knows not to go above 1/200 for shutter speed. If you had to have that aperture, you would have 2 options: Set the flash to high speed sync, or dial-down the iso to something like 100 or 50.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_south Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Jason Hall has solved the mystery. Av mode is the most dangerous mode for flash. P is a lot better, because the camera will do everything that it can to keep you from making a mistake. If your are going to shoot in Av of M mode, you first need to know the nominal (without flash) exposure value and be sure not to exceed it. Flash can brighten your photo, but it cannot darken it if that is what is required. I would like to know what ISO was used for these shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 <p>I know this doesn't help your immediate troubles, but: Next time you might consider shooting RAW. JPEG is unfortunately not a professional format, and little can be done if mistakes are made when using it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 <p>Steve -- he said he was JPG only, really? Where was that?<br /> Still, what Dan and Jason said -- Av mode on the EOS system is not for the faint-hearted when using fill flash (assuming inexperience).</p> <p>This part doesn't make sense:</p> <p>"<em>Apologies but I dont have an example to show as I deleted them from my camera. "</em><br> <br />Check this Stephen:<br> <a href="http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/photography/9781933952444">http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/photography/9781933952444</a><br> "Mastering Canon EOS Flash Photography" by NK Guy.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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