Whatever happened to Japanese quality?

[mark_drutz]

<p>JDM, I'm also a camera collector. Mostly I collect SLR's from the 60's and 70's, but I'll buy any camera that interests me. It surprises me too how much obsolete DSLR's go for, but I did get a Nikon D1 body with charger in very nice condition for $159. I imagine that the market for these old (relatively speaking) DSLR's is mostly collectors.</p>

<p>I've been collecting for several years and I've noticed that 35mm SLR's from the 60's, 70's, and 80's have been increasing in price. I guess people have discovered how inexpensive most of them are and they've caught the collecting bug.</p>

[rossb]

<p> I cannot recall a Japanese product that I have purchased that left me disappointed. </p>

[ingemar_lampa1]

<p>The "Made in..." labelling stopped making sense long time ago. Even if it were to say, for example, "Made in Sweden", it probably only entails final assembly, QC or the minimum required to be able to legally put that label on. Like Jens pointed out earlier, most of anything you buy is most likely manufactured in China. That is not a bad thing in itself as both factories and QC can (but not always) be to very high standards.</p>

<p>Goods longevity or lack thereof compared to yesteryear is partly due to planned obsolescence, partly because us, the consumers, demanding more for less.<br>

Imagine the cost of a hand-assembled, fully mechanical camera w. no meter or auto-focus, remanufactured today? And how many would buy it?</p>

[rossb]

<blockquote>

<p>Imagine the cost of a hand-assembled, fully mechanical camera w. no meter or auto-focus, remanufactured today? And how many would buy it?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The best I could come to that is a Leica MP camera. Made in Germany with people that have real labor laws. I imagine it has a great deal of hand made individual attention to it. Of course the quality of an MP is legendary. A new body is going for $4500.00 USD and I do not think they are flying off the shelves. I wish I owned one but I cannot spend the money.</p>

[nicholas_sumner]

<p>Thanks to everyone for your responses, particularly Edward Ingold who's taken the time to demonstrate to us all that a pointless and un-necessary ad-hominem attack will always make the attacker look like a bit of a wally.</p>

<p>Cheers Edward, and good luck with learning English as your second language!</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Gee Nicholas, this most recent post of YOURS seems eminently qualified for your own "prize". :-P<</p>

 

[ianivey]

<blockquote>

<p>particularly Edward Ingold who's taken the time to demonstrate to us all that a pointless and un-necessary ad-hominem attack will always make the attacker look like a bit of a wally.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I love irony.</p>

[james_kennedy9]

<p>I was 5 year old in Kindergarten when Pearl Harbor was attacked. In the immeidate post-war years, Japan had the reputation for making junk. There was a rumor that the Japanese had renamed a factory town to Usa, so they stamp "Made in USA" on the product.</p>

<p>I was laboring under this misconception until I arrived in Vietnam in June 1966. I asked my squadron mates if there were any good deals. Their answer was the Konica auto S2 ($35), Seiko wrist watch ($19), and Sony tape player. I bought the first two, which never disappointed me, and I still have them and they are still working.</p>

<p>Can anyone remember when all US-made autos required a major overhaul with after 50-70,000 miles, that is if the bodies had not succumbed to cancer due to salting the roads. I bought my wife, a suburban matron, the standard maroon Volvo station wagon brand new in 1984 complete with sheep dog. I have never owned a worse piece of crap in my life with the exception of a 1954 Mercury hardtop (beautiful but junky) and my 1970 Fiat 850cc sport coupe. I now consider only Japanese autos.</p>

<p>I tend to treat all my cameras as if they were newborn infants, and I have no complaints with any of my film Nikons or Canons or Minoltas, or with my digital SLRs (D70, D90, D200, D300). They will all be functioning far longer than I will. The Nikon F2 may rank as one of the finest mechanical devices of all time. It feels good just hold it.</p>

<p>I miss steam locomotives.</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>Japan (Nikon, Canon, et al.,) seems to favor the labor market in other countries. Most Nikon digital bodies are "Made in Thailand." Many Nikon lenses are "Made in Thailand." And now some Nikon lenses are "Made in China," but the box has complete Nikon markings. You have the choice of buying what you need to capture images...and you may choose to return to film.</p>

<p> </p>

[david_littleboy__tokyo__ja]

<p>All the Canon bodies and lenses here say "made in Japan" on them. I only have FF stuff though, no APS-C/consumer products.</p>

<p> </p>

[bruce_erickson1]

 

<p><em>We live in a society where things are not built to last. I am afraid you need to get used to what is served on the plate.</em><br>

I recently bought a cast steel hammer (made in America too) that looks like it will last a very long time. (Lost my old one. ) I've really abused that thing too. What on earth was the manufacturer thinking of. Wonder if I will have to get the new model coming out, oh, wait, there is no new model. </p>

 

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>Hammers intended for serious work are forged, not cast. If you see something that looks like a parting line, it is from the dies, not a mold.</p>

[bruce_erickson1]

<p>It's a 12 oz Estwing. Serious light work. Forged, yes. </p>

[nicholas_sumner]

<p>JDM von Weinberg - you really musn't mind a little banter, it all helps the day go by :D</p>

[bobbudding]

Yawn. Rubber coverings wear, and so do the windshield wipers on my car. And you're bitching because you need a shutter service after 1/4 million actuations? Sheesh! It's a mechanical device!! Your expectations are absurd.

[Moving On]

To whom are you speaking?

[paul ron]

China is working on it right now.

[paul ron]

<p>In 2000 Kodak had 1 MP DSLR for a ton of money.<br /> In 2002 Canon sold the D60 for $2,000 ! Today it's worthless.<br /> In 2003 the 10D was twice the camera the D60 was, and its price down to just $1500. Today the 10D can be had in perfect condition for $100. But why?<br /> In early 2010 the 7D sold for $1700. It's more than 10 times the camera the 10D was for a few just a few more bucks.</p>

<p>So yes! Bring back the years 2000 to 2002 and those horrible, noisy, slow DSLRs! Buy me a closet full of hairsuits too.</p>

 

 

Now you do see something in that.... digital cameras are almost worthless in just a few years. But add to that, how many are dead in the dumps?

 

makes you wonder how many, say Voitlanders, are still in working condition? Despite their age.... you can still get a good return on them today.Their photo quality is still so wonderfuly clean and sharp.

 

So, what will $150 get you in digital on par with a reasonably working film camera?

[PapaTango]

7-year-old thread creeps out of the grave, resurrected by a lurker. Nick the OP has not been back to PN since he posted his complaint. Lurker seems to have quite a cranky attitude for being a lurker--especially one who has just resurrected a 7-year-old thread.

 

Heck, this place is becoming worthless! Perhaps it was made by the Japanese too?

 

Impressive... :rolleyes:

[Moving On]

What's really curious is that he got a whole page for his reply......

[paul ron]

so what, its an old thread, its just as valid now as was then.

 

resurecting old threads is a way of priming the pump to get the old farts to start moving gray matter.

 

cranky lurkers are keeping this place alive.... cronic complainers are the blight.

 

 

:eek:

[William Kahn]

OK, I'll go back to sleep, now...

[Ed_Ingold]

I believe the PNET rules state you should search existing threads before starting a new one. This thread may have started in 2011, but from time to time others may have something to add. Newcomers have a way of walking away when they're flamed.

[BeBu Lamar]

<p>

<p>I take photographs with Japanese cameras, I have done since the early 1980s when I gave my mum back her Kodak retinette 1A and bought myself a Cannon AE1. I traded my Canon gear for Nikon a decade later and I took a Nikon F4 and a pair of F90s all over the world with me. The dust of the Gobi Desert, the Himalayas, the jungles of Borneo, the Australian outback and 100 other places has worked its way into the seams and crevices of these cameras, the shutter of at least one of them has cycled more than half a million times yet they are going strong and last time I had them serviced the technician told me they should last for years yet.</p>

<p>Of course, in this digital age, they don't get as much use as they did, and a year ago I traded a Nikon D1X for a Nikon D3. I have to be honest it wasn't a minute too soon. I must admit I'm not always as gentle as I could be with my cameras, they are working tools and a photograph is more important then the camera that takes it so part of the reason that I continue to favour the Nikon brand is because of its reputation for ruggedness. My D1X was roughly 4 years old, so imagine my dismay at the fact that most of the rubber shielding on the camera body has peeled off, or when a technician servicing the camera told me that after only 250,000 cycles the shutter was showing signs of imminent failure.</p>

<p>Then there's that Sony TV I had that died after only four years, or the Sony burnable CDs I used to use which seemed to have a failure rate of about 1 in 150. Honda cars built in Canada seem to be more solidly constructed than Honda cars built in Japan. I could go on but you get the picture.</p>

<p>Japan is still in a prolonged recession, a lot of Japanese manufacturing has been moved offshore but even so. Is this a trend? Should I be saving my money to buy Lieca cameras to replace my D3 when bits start to fall off it a couple of years from now?</p>

1.

 

1. The rubber thingy I don't know why they chose to use it. It's a bit more sticky than the old leatherette on old cameras but doesn't last. I don't think this is a quality problem but rather a poor choice in material.

2. I doubt that my F3HP made sometimes in the early 80's has any where near 250,000 shutter actuation.

3. You Sony TV isn't made in Japan. Most likely it was made in Mexico and the CD I doubt that were made in Japan either. However, burnable CD aren't reliable regardless of where they are made.

[Ed_Ingold]

There are no problems with Sony CDs and DVDs. In fact, they are a premium brand along with Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden. There is a history of problems with burners and particularly software to control burning. I have CDs going back over 20 years, still readable. Only ones I tried to mass produce using multiple burners have show problems. I have had no problems in that realm since copy towers have been available. I always verify after burning, and the failure rate is less than 1%. You need real software for burning, like Roxio Toast (Mac) or Nero (Win), which I have used successfully for years. There are major compatibility issues with drag-and-drop burning.

 

Early burners relied on a test burn to determine laser power and optimum burn speed. Since then, discs have been standardized, or have their characteristics embedded in the disc by the manufacturer.