Learning Manual Mode, Soooooo Disapointed :(

[holly_goyea]

<p>Not sure if I posted this in the right place so "Please" bare with me if I didn't. I've been trying to achieve the art of photography for three years now. Using manual mode and trying very hard to learn metering. Today was my daughters wedding... I took some shots of her getting ready and they appear to have a yellow tint to them... the light being a mix of natural and tungsten.<br>

My first question here would be.... when metering, do I need to change the exposure settings everytime I move?? Here's what I truly don't understand..... I'm trying so hard to achieve good pictures using manual mode and the photographer that she hired was shooting in FULL program mode and was getting better results than I?? How disappointing this was to me. This photographer puts out nice work... yet had no clue as to what metering was when I asked her. She stated, "I shoot in program mode". The photos I seen in her camera didn't have the yellow tint either?? She said it was because she was shooting with a 18 Mega pixel camera.... mine being a Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D 6.1 million pixel. Not sure of the difference here.<br>

My main question here I guess is... How do I progress forward shooting in manual getting the results that she is achieving without using program mode?? I shoot a picture check the histogram ajust if I need to while she just shot away. I'm getting discouraged here. How do I get past spending so much time on metering??<br>

Thank you, in advance. Sorry about the title... Disappointed... I tried to correct.</p>

[jason_hall5]

<p>The yellow tint is due to white balance, not exposure or resolution (mega pixels). The monitor on her camera just may not have shown this, or the camera simply did a better job with Auto WB then yours.</p>

<p>As for disappointing results with manual mode, my first question is, what method did you use to meter the scene? Was it a hand held meter or the one in your camera. IF the one in your camera, what mode was it set to? Does it have a spot meter on that model.</p>

<p>Jason </p>

[paddler4]

<p>To make progress, you need to sort out several different issues.</p>

<p>First, the yellow tint has nothing to do with metering. It is a white-balance problem. It is hard to address this well when the light sources are mixed, but you can probably improve it just by changing the white balance temperature in your editing software.</p>

<p>Second, the number of pixels has nothing to with either of these problems. More megapixels just means more detail and the ability to print larger.</p>

<p>The third issue is metering. A problem with metering will show up as a photo that is too light or too dark. YOu need to change exposure settings if the light changes. If the light is pretty even, you can often leave the exposure alone.</p>

<p>I'd suggest that your goal should be getting good exposures, not always using manual mode. In many cases, it is easier to use other modes, in particular, aperture or shutter priority, which allows you to control the setting you most worry about (aperture for depth of field, shutter speed for motion) and let the camera adjust the other one to give a good exposure. Personally, I use those settings much of the time. I generally use manual when something in the scene makes metering that way difficult--e.g., something very dark or light that will throw the meter off.</p>

[jason_hall5]

<p>Sorry, I clearly did not pay enough attention to the end of your post as to your method. I assume you are "exposeing to the right". This is not really a method of metering. That is a hunt and peck type of method to acheive a useable exposure, not the correct exposure.</p>

<p>the idea with Exposeing to the right, is to increase exposure to the point of just before cliping the highlights. The idea of this is to pull as much info in the shadows as you can with out loseing anything in the highlights. However you still have to adjust final exposure in post processing to get what you want.</p>

<p>To meter a scene would mean we use a light meter to measure light (incidental or reflective) and determine a correct exposure the first time. Try turning off the monitor on your camera and go out shooting and not looking at a single exposure until you get back home to see how you did.</p>

<p>Jason </p>

[jon_robert]

<p>First of all I think you need an attitude change toward manual. Do great chefs always use a knife or do they use a food processor? Do Boatsmen use oars or do they use motors? Do you use a car or do you walk? Life is full of automation and for good reason. It is frequently a vastly superior choice.<br /> I have done weddings and the last thing I would do is try is to shoot them in manual. I use auto everything. Many bazillion of dollars and many bazillion of hours of research and engineering has gone into developing auto mode So why would I be so foolish as to reject that and rely on my own abilities? I don't.</p>

<p>There are a few instances when auto is not going to produce true results. That is when you use manual mode. Or when learning about camera functions. Not when trying to record a wedding.</p>

<p>Now that I have attempted to change your attitude let me try to answer your questions</p>

<p>"My main question here I guess is... How do I progress forward shooting in manual getting the results that she is achieving without using program mode??<br /> Answer: You don't. It is like a carpenter asking "How do I progress forward using a hand saw getting the results that she is achieving using a power saw??" The obvious question is why would you want to compare the two? Why do you avoid non manual modes. What is so important about manual mode?</p>

<p>I shoot a picture check the histogram ajust if I need to while she just shot away. I'm getting discouraged here. How do I get past spending so much time on metering??"</p>

<p>answer: Shoot in the program modes. That is why they are there.</p>

<p>Perhaps you have not yet realized how to select the correct program mode? Perhaps you have been lead to believe manual is superior - which is untrue. At any rate keep shooting it will get better with time if you have the aptitude.</p>

[jason_hall5]

<p>One other thing, do not make the mistake of judgeing the "pros" final images by what you see on her camera. That can be very misleading.</p>

<p>Jason</p>

[luis_g]

<p>Do not "learn" on anyone's wedding. It's their day, not an opportunity for you to try out what you should have tried out and learned on subjects and situations that do not matter -- on your own time. For many, many people, program, aperture or shutter-preferred will do a better job than they will after <em>months of practice. </em>Do what you know works for you at this point in time.<em><br /></em></p>

<p> The number of megapixels has nothing to do with the tungsten cast.Was she using a flash?</p>

<p>There's nothing disappointing with the way the pro hired works. She knows what works for her, the work is good enough to sell, and she gets it done, and probably on time. </p>

<p>My advice is to sign up for a photography class at your local Jr. College.</p>

<p><em><br /></em></p>

[railphotog]

<p>This "using manual" to get results has shown up in many other threads I've seen on this and other forums. Newbies say they want to use or learn to use manual exposure so they can become more professional. Not sure where they get this idea, perhaps from more advanced photographers who mention using manual exposure to get what they want. What is not said is these photographers know when to use manual, as opposed to using it all the time. As has been said, millions have been spent in providing automation in our cameras, why not use it unless there are special circumstances?</p>

<p> </p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>Congratulations on the wedding. Let's skip using those for practice, huh?</p>

<p>I use manual a lot. I was taught photography back before we had sophisticated computers in the cameras. Heck, a computer tape drive was about the size of your average household refrigerator.</p>

<p>I flunked a lot of photos. Still do. Hundreds, probably thousands of photos hit the trash in one day; I sat down one time to tear up the mistakes. There was almost nothing left. I started out with classroom instruction, and I still screwed everything up for many years. An easy ten years of constant failure and errors in intermittent hobbyist photography. I built one very large pile of garbage. Maybe one good photo every five years.</p>

<p>The bad results eventually got better to make it into "average." I still fail a lot. Failure is a normal part of how I do stuff. It is for a lot of photographers. Well, I guess it doesn't have to be; but, sometimes it is. Failure is a normal part of creative endeavors.</p>

<p>I wouldn't want to scare you off; but, really, failure is the norm in art. There's little way around it. To make matters worse, there are many times when we think we've achieved success, only to discover that we've lied to ourselves so much that we've defrauded ourselves into believing a fictional success when what we really had was failure.</p>

<p>Some artists cope with this by drinking a lot. Drinking, smoking, women: it's all a distraction. Have some fun in life, but eventually, you will have to get back to making stuff. Then, when you do: you guessed it: more failure.</p>

<p>The bad failures are the ones where things are so screwed up, you can't identify what to fix. When you can't describe what to identify to fix; that's usually a sign of many compounded problems. You at least can tell, "too yellow." In the past it was common to just get a big black or black roll of failure on film.</p>

<p>Well, so I offer this: take heart. Some failure is normal. There will be more. It's not the end of the world, because you can eventually make another photo if you keep at it. But, skip it with the photos at the daughter's wedding. Those only come around once per while, and you don't want to be working on that day except maybe out of nervous habit.</p>

<p>Congratulations on the wedding, and don't worry about those photos.</p>

[john_tran14]

<p>1. As everybody else says, the "yellow tint" has nothing to do with resolution. The mixed light caused the problem, maybe she had a strong flash on that fought off the other light sources</p>

<p>2. Do not force yourself to use manual mode just because someone says "manual is better". Such a claim is very misleading and confusing. Use manual mode only when you know exactly how wrong the other modes would be or because you are very comfortable with it. If , at anytime, you are not so sure about metering and setting exposure, you must depend on auto modes (exactly what you say she did)</p>

<p>3. Using manual mode is similar to drive your own car instead of taking the bus. It gives you more freedom and you will enjoy the ride more, but not until you can fully control it and steer it exactly to where you want and where it is supposed to go. Otherwise, take the bus to be safe and relaxed</p>

[jaydesi]

<p>Manual is useful when you need to override the camera's decision making, and it is good for learning about how different settings affect your exposure, but there's nothing magical about it. Stick with aperture priority and shutter priority modes and you'll do just fine.</p>

[holly_goyea]

<p>"WOW".... I can not "Thank you" all enough for your thoughts and information!! You have GREATLY relieved my heart of disappointment.<br>

"Yes" I was VERY much lead to believe that "Manual" was superior and was how most if not all photographers shoot 90% of the time!! I have been to WELL known photography courses not wanting to name them.... that has instilled this in their students.... one of them being me!! I was lead to believe that manual was the way to shoot... to avoid using program modes.<br>

"Please" don't get me wrong gentlemen.... I ASURE you that I did not use my daughters<br>

wedding day as a practice day for me.... as I stated that the professional photographer was able to shoot away. I took some practice shots but by no means at her expense ;)<br>

John O'Keefe..... "Thank you" :)<br>

I metered off a gray card for the most part.... I do have a hand held meter. The professional photographer did not use flash at all. I guess now that I know how to use manual mode.... I need to learn how my camera functions in the other modes!!<br>

I can not "Thank you" all enough for what you have taught me here :)</p>

 

[danielfultonphoto]

<p>Meters can be tricked easily because everything reflects light differently.<br>

It really doesn't matter what mode you use, but it is true you have more control in manual mode if you know what you are doing. Shooting effectively and efficiently in Manual mode requires more understanding of the principles of light and how your camera deals with them. <br>

Until you can accurately gauge a scene simply by looking at it, it's better to use aperture priority, etc. But better than any of these options is to use the Ultimate Exposure Computer: http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm<br>

I wrote a blog post recently explaining how to use this with digital and confirm your results with your camera's histogram: http://danielfulton.com/2010/10/mastering-photographic-exposure-for-digital-cameras/<br>

I don't even use a meter anymore because it's unreliable and too slow in comparison.<br>

Happy shooting!</p>

[James G. Dainis]

In program mode you compose the shot and fire the shutter. You get a good photo at, let us say, f/8 @ 1/125 sec.

 

In manual mode, you take a meter reading, set the aperture to f/8, then set the shutter speed to 1/125 sec. then compose the shot and fire the shutter.

 

Both photos are identical having the same exposure. Er, why was manual mode better? Because it took longer?

 

Back in the days of manual cameras you had match needle metering in the viewfinder. You would set the aperture then turned the shutter speed dial until the needle matched, indicating correct exposure, and then fired the shutter. Or you set a shutter speed and then turned the aperture ring until the needles again matched up, again indicating correct exposure, and then fire the shutter.

 

That was a lot of work, so the camera makers came up with aperture priority. You set the aperture and the camera automatically set the shutter speed for the correct exposure. You didn't have to turn the shutter speed dial yourself. Or you could use shutter priority. You set the shutter speed and the camera automatically set the aperture for the correct exposure. You didn't have to turn the aperture ring yourself. Whether you turned it yourself or let the camera do it for you didn''t make any difference on the exposure, it just saved time.

 

There are times where you can have a tricky lighting situation where the camera meter will be "fooled" and give a wrong exposure setting, such as snow or beach scenes. Of course, it you are using a hand held reflective light meter that will be "fooled" also. I see no value of using a hand held reflective light meter if you have a camera with a light meter in it. That camera meter is also a reflective meter and prone to the same errors as a hand held reflective light meter.

 

If you want to use a hand held meter for tricky lighting situations, where it would be advisable to use manual settings, then get an incident light meter. That will give you the correct exposure settings based on the light falling on a scene. Or you could use a spot meter, either one built into a camera or a hand held one, but you have to study up a bit to lean how to use that properly, averaging out the lights and darks in a scene. Just aiming a spot meter at one element in a scene will more often than not give you an incorrect exposure setting.

[sfcole]

<p>"As has been said, millions have been spent in providing automation in our cameras, why not use it unless there are special circumstances?"<br>

Because they screw up your photos--automatically! I use manual settings all the time because I know from experience that my camera can be fooled. And I know my camera's sensitivity: I already know that in bright sun, the exposure should be 125@f11. Period. I know that in shade it will be 1/60@2.8. In either situation, and many others, the exposure shouldn't be changing. But your camera will try.<br>

The answer to this post is that OF COURSE you're frustrated with manual exposure. It takes photographers years to learn the nuances of exposure, and with a digital camera you really have to nail it. It would be like someone picking up my violin and complaining they can't play perfectly in tune.<br>

Although many of the advanced photographers can make sense of a histogram, I doubt that the average person can make. The histrogram will look totally different for each scene/subject. Don't get "histerical" about it.</p>

[markdeneen]

<p>Continue to learn manual mode - you will eventually get photos with the creativity you want. The reason for using manual is to decide on creative elements. Usually, the two most common are related to depth of field (DOF) and motion.</p>

<p>Program mode, or AUTO, is intended to make successful <em>exposures</em>. Program mode can't decide for you what DOF you want, or if you need to stop motion, or hint at motion. Those are the creative elements that define your vision about a photo.</p>

<p>Example: Assume you are taking a portrait outside at the wedding. Do you want every object in the field tack sharp? Or, do you prefer to have the subject sharp and the b/g blurred out? Your camera AUTO mode doesn't know what you want. What it will do it use a mid-range f-stop and mid-range speed to get proper "exposure" - but it doesn't know what you want for DOF. So, in most cases you will get a middle of the road choice which makes almost everything in the picture almost sharp. It means all your pictures will have the same "style" - which is to say not much style at all - but, they WILL be properly exposed.</p>

<p>Assume you are shooting someone cutting wood. Do you want the ax to show blurred motion? Or, do you want to catch it absolutely frozen in space? That's a decision you make with a manual setting. The AUTO setting will give you a compromise between the two, and that means a boring "snapshot" versus what might be a dramatic picture.</p>

<p>Most of the time, the AUTO mode will chose f-stops between 5.6 and 11. But the dramatic effects of your lens are at the two opposite ends of that - more like at f/1.7 and f/22. Likewise with speed. AUTO will hang out at 1/125 and 1/250 when what you really want might be 1/30 or 1/2000. Program mode simply has no idea about creativity - only exposure.</p>

<p>If you need a "must not fail" shot, AUTO is the way to go. But if you are trying to express a creative vision using the camera, the manual modes, or aperture priority or shutter priority are how to do that.</p>

<p>Make a check list for shooting manual (mental or written!)<br>

- Is my ISO set where I want?<br>

- Is White balance correct for this light<br>

- Do I want lots of DOF, little DOF?<br>

- Is speed important? Is there motion? Do I want to freeze it or show it?<br>

- Is my exposure intent high key or low key? Do I need to compensate?<br>

Make the settings, take the picture.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

[scott_page2]

<p>Is the object moving? If no, then I'm in manual mode. If yes, then is the light changing? If no, then manual will be great, if yes then do I have time to mess with manual? Is the action happening fast and once-in-a-lifetime shots? Under those conditions then I'm likely in an auto mode, usually shutter or aperture priority depending upon which aspect "I" want control of and which aspect I'm happy to turn over to the electronics. Full program is not very useful and I very seldom use it. A wedding photog that just uses full program is not a creative photographer and is rather lazy. <br>

You've been studying for 3 years and you don't know this very basic stuff already? I don't mean to be harsh but you need some good books and you need a good instructor. Can you take some college photo courses?</p>

[markdeneen]

<p>Holly--<br>

There are two general categories of taking pictures. First is to record events - you know like, this is Jimmy's 4th birthday and look who was at the party. The second is to make the photo into a personal expression of your artistic vision - how you interpret or feel about events and people. AUTO mode is a wonderful tool for the first, and manual operation of the camera is a great tool for the second.</p>

<p>Suppose for a moment that cameras become much, much more automated. Suppose you simply send it out with instructions to photograph Jimmy's birthday and the camera shows up, does all the work and brings you back the pictures. That's a convenience for sure. It is nice to have the camera work for you. But would that satisfy any part of your artistic desires? Probably not much.</p>

<p>The programmed modes are designed to take "successful pictures every time" - as defined by the camera programmer. Almost always that means, "properly exposed." A good documentary photo. If people were to take lots of awful exposures - they'd blame the camera. AUTO takes all the risk out of taking a photo. It somewhat guarantees a certain kind of success with that camera. Manual, or any mode where you are choosing at least one parameter, has RISK! Yes, a picture might be all barfed up if you choose wrong. You might get nothing. And that risk is what becomes exciting, sometimes nerve wracking, but deliciously fun when the risk (and your new knowledge) pays off, and you get the exciting and interesting photo you saw in your head before pushing the shutter button. If the risk and reward sound interesting to you, then you will want to learn all the manual controls on your camera.</p>

<p>I mostly shoot film. And I enjoy the fact that I can't instantly see the success or failure of my shot. I have to develop and scan the film later - maybe days later, sometimes even weeks later. Viewing the scans is like unwrapping Christmas presents. Each picture holds a huge surprise. Many bad, but oh when those good ones come! As the scanner works it's way down my image I am looking at the screen. Oh yeah - I remember this shot - - yes, here it comes -- did I get what I wanted here? Oh yeah, I nailed it! Or, eeeks, what a mess!--let's see what I did wrong here? And the emphasis then is what did "I" do right or wrong, not what did the "camera" program do right or wrong.</p>

<p>One of the cool things about digital is that you can practice for FREE. Take a 100, heck take 1,000 shots if that's what it takes to get the right one. Try every setting until you see what the effects are. Before going into full on manual, just begin with the Aperture Priority mode that nearly any camera will have. That alone will greatly improve your picture taking creativity. Once you know the A mode, the Shutter Priority will be trivial to learn. Now you have 2 of the most important tools you need to make your photos personally more interesting.</p>

[mike_hitchen]

<p>I can't remember the last time I used manual - since I switched to digital 5 years ago I could probably count it on the fingers of one hand. I find that I can get pretty much everything full manual gives me by using one of the 'semi auto' modes (aperture priority or shutter priority) and a tweak on the exposure compensation function when I recognise those tricky situations. And I don't have to worry about changing shooting modes back and forth between shots.</p>

<p>But the important thing is to try and fully understand why a particular picture did not work - when you see your pictures look carefully and critique it to hell. Sometimes you need to look at it, close it then come back to it a day or so later to try and look at it objectively. Simple lighting/metering issues are back-lighting or front-lighting fooling the meter; or a light source giving a bright shaft of light buring out just one part of the picture. If shooting people you need to learn when (if it is possible!) to take control and adapt the situation - close a door, move the person elsewhere, crop the picture etc.</p>

[James G. Dainis]

Sometimes shooting full manual is good. One time I was taking some surfer shots. I was on the beach with the camera on a tripod. An incident light meter indicated f/8 @1/500 sec. I set those settings on manual. I wasn't moving and the sun wasn't moving (not very fast anyway). The manual setting prevented the camera meter suddenly being "fooled" by a crest of white water appearing and changing the setting to f/8 @ 1/1000 sec (if in aperture priority) or to f/11 @ 1/500 sec (if in shutter priority), causing underexposure. In a situation like that it is good to be able to set the exposure one time and then forget it, with an occasional check of the incident light meter. But when switching around to differently lit scenes, full manual can be more of a nuisance than a help.

[Tim_Lookingbill]

<p>Don't think anyone mentioned the type of metering the camera must be set to when shooting in Program Mode. Some camera brands have more sophisticated and/or better overall measuring methods over others like through the lens multipoint matrix metering, center weighted and spot.</p>

<p>We don't know the settings the pro used with the 18 Megapixel camera.</p>

<p>BTW what model and brand was that pro using to shoot a wedding in Program Mode without flash of any kind? Sounds like one fantastic camera.</p>

[lisa_bree]

<p>As a beginner, I'm kind of convinced by the arguments to shoot auto, but...<br>

One question I have is about RAW. I tred it for the first time today and discovered that you have to shoot in manual. I thought that serious photographers shoot in RAW, so how can you be shooting in automatic?</p>

[irusan]

<p>Daria,</p>

<p>Shooting in RAW has nothing to do with shooting in manual or automatic.</p>

<p>For me, I shoot in either Aperture-priority or manual but always in RAW+JPG</p>

<p>I shoot in Manual when:</p>

<ul>

<li>Using strobes or my flash off-camera with wireless triggers</li>

<li>Shooting landscapes and I need/want to spot meter different parts of the scene and average out the exposure</li>

<li>When shooting products </li>

</ul>

<p>I shoot aperture-priority when:</p>

<ul>

<li>Shooting a wedding and I am restricted to using available light</li>

<li>Shooting weddings and I want to shoot quickly but still have easy control over creative aspects such as depth of field</li>

<li>Shooting with my flash on-camera (which isn't too often)</li>

</ul>

<p>I shoot in full auto-mode:</p>

<ul>

<li><em>Never</em>. In full auto-mode I give up every bit of creative input and rely on the camera to choose an appropriate aperture|shutter speed balance and, if the camera chooses a setting that I like, it's luck, not good programming by the camera's development team</li>

</ul>

<p>Learning to shoot in manual mode is pretty straightforward but you do need to learn a few basic concepts first. If, after learning how to do everything manually, you choose to go back to shooting in full-auto mode, more power to you, but at least you will have learned how different apertures and shutter speeds affect your image.</p>

<p>Assuming you are not shooting something fast-paced like a wedding or other ceremony and can take your time, also learn to use your camera's DoF Preview (some entry-level bodies don't have this and that's a tragedy IMNHO) and custom white balance.</p>

<p>Your photography won't suffer because you know the more minute and technical details of exposure. :-)</p>

[lisa_bree]

<p>Thank you for the detailed response. :)<br>

I understand that in theory RAW has nothing to do with the mode of shooting, but the RAW setting disappears if I set my camera on Auto. I have a canon powershot G11, if that matters.<br>

I see it does appear if only shutter speed or aperture are set, and you choose the other manually.</p>

 

[lex_jenkins]

<blockquote>

<p>"I shoot in full auto-mode:<br>

<em>Never</em>. In full auto-mode I give up every bit of creative input and rely on the camera to choose an appropriate aperture|shutter speed balance..."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Depends on the camera. Most (possibly <em>all</em>) Nikon dSLRs offer a flexible program mode that enables the user to bias in favor of controlling shutter speed or aperture while maintaining the same EV. It's very quick, intuitive and reliable once you've practiced with it a bit. It works well enough that I seldom use aperture or shutter priority modes. I tend to use either manual (for scenarios where the exposure doesn't vary from shot to shot) or full auto program mode (for fast changing situations) and use the thumbwheel to bias toward controlling shutter speed or aperture as needed for a given situation.</p>

<p>But that technique may not apply or be useful to other model digital cameras, depending on how the exposure controls are designed.</p>