M7 ... MP ... your thoughts?

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Hi folks!</p>

<p>I have an M7 and an M4-P. I love shooting both of them for different reasons which, as painful as it is, I'm not going to get into here.</p>

<p>Naturally, one Leica (M7) turns into two Leicas (M4-P) and now I'm considering adding another sibling to the stable: an MP. Yes, it's probably dumb but if I can't come to this forum for a group of understanding souls who will not judge me ill (of mind, or purchasing habits), where can I turn? Certainly not my wife (though I love her and she is very patient).</p>

<p>I digress.</p>

<p>I'm wondering from those who one both an M7 and an MP, what do you think of the two in terms of usability compared to each other? Handing? Do you simply enjoy shooting one over the other or enjoy the feel of one better than the other (and if so, why)? Also, if you can choose to use either camera, in what applications do you use one or the other and why?</p>

<p>In closing, I considered titling this thread "M7 vs. MP" but realized I'm not looking for a bake-off. There are no wrong answers here. I'm just interested in starting a dialog and I would like to hear what you have to say about your cameras.</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

[christopher_moss]

<p>The big issue is auto exposure - if you like it there is no choice to make. Otherwise, the MP handles better (it really is smoother and slicker to operate so there must be some truth in the talk of finer tolerances, and the brass gears probably help). I sold two M7s and replaced them with two MPs.</p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p>AE, flash TTL, DX detection, quartz controlled shutter but battery depending, although two shutter times 1/60 and 1/125 will always work.<br>

The M7 will work a bit faster due to above features.<br>

The MP is 100% mechanically and battery independend.<br>

It's just what you prefer. I like the AE feature and TTL-flash so I have the M7. I do not think it's a problem to have two spare 1/3CN batteries in the photo bag.</p>

<p> </p>

[Fotohuis RoVo]

<p> </p>

[brucecahn]

<p>I have an M6 and recently got an MP. On the M6 you turn the shutter speed dial in the direction of the arrow to get a good exposure. On the MP you turn it in the opposite direction. Why is that? If they did it that way because it was like that on the original MP, it is understandable but a little silly. Overall, I do prefer the MP.</p>

[mpo]

<p>Bruce, the problem lies in your M6 <strong>TTL</strong> , not in the MP.</p>

[User_4754088]

<p>I'm a little confused. Why is the M6 TTL so often maligned? Isn't it just a halfway step between the M6 and the M7? Why do folks deride it so much? It's a Leica rangefinder, just like the rest of the M line. What makes it so undesirable?</p>

<p>Best,<br>

-Tim</p>

[matt_blomqvist]

<p>Well.. from the M3 until the M4-P the shutter speed dial turn direction didn't really play a role because there was no light meter thus no red arrows in the viewfinder. Then M6 classic came along with the light meter... and people noticed that the dial is turning in the wrong direction. So they corrected it with the M6 TTL. It's that simple.</p>

[SolaresLarrave]

The M6 and the MP have the same type of shutterspeed dial... and it's a small one that moves from right to left (I believe it's like the one in previous unmetered bodies). The M6TTL and the M7 have a larger, Alka-Seltzer sized shutterspeed dial that moves from left to right... and coincides with the arrows visible in the VF that indicate over- or underexposure.

 

I was on the same fence a while ago: I wanted to sell one of my M6TTL bodies and snag an MP. When a wise MP user mentioned this circumstance (the shutterspeed dial difference), I chose to keep my M6TTL bodies and don't even dream of an MP.

 

BTW, I have an M3 and also an M4-2, and I try not to use them together... although, to be quite honest, I only make exposure adjustments when I use my metered bodies. With the unmetered ones, I usually take a meter reading and shoot away with occasional bracketing.

 

So, Carl... now you know. Take care!

[Richard Williams]

Even with the M6 Classic the direction of the metering arrows is only 'wrong' if you consider how the front of the shutter speed dial (nearest the lens) is moving. The back of the dial (nearest the eyepiece) is of course moving in the opposite direction (which matches the arrows). Think of it as a thumbwheel (you're probably using thumb and finger to rotate it) and everything makes perfect sense! I guess this is rather less intuitive with the TTL, where the larger dial is easier to spin with the forefinger alone - perhaps this is why they changed? In any case, I wonder why they changed the direction of rotation they'd been using since the 1920s rather than just swapping the LEDs..?

[peter_n1664876959]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm wondering from those who one both an M7 and an MP, what do you think of the two in terms of usability compared to each other? Handing? Do you simply enjoy shooting one over the other or enjoy the feel of one better than the other (and if so, why)? Also, if you can choose to use either camera, in what applications do you use one or the other and why?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have three years with two M7s and three with two MPs. Both great cameras but I bought a dSLR to shoot color and never used the M7s for slides. I sold the M7s and kept the MPs. Handling of both was great but I prefer the film rewind and advance levers on the MP. I did shoot a few color rolls with the M7s and used AE but after I bought the dSLR that stopped, so I got rid of them. I only shoot B&W with the MPs and they are great for that, and shoot color family snaps and suchlike with the dSLR with auto everything. The two systems complement each other pretty well.</p>

[mukul_dube]

<p>Carl, it seems to me that your heart is set on an MP. Might be best to just go ahead and buy one. As Christopher Moss said, you won't have automatic exposure with it. I see no other substantial difference.</p>

[john_kwok]

<p>I haven't used the MP, but hear that it's built better than the M6. Don't like its rewind crank (If you want a M4 - M7 rewind crank, you have to pay for the privilege via a la carte.). I find the M7 to be noticeably quieter than my M6s and M4.</p>

[john_kwok]

<p>I haven't used the MP, but hear that it's built better than the M6. Don't like its rewind crank (If you want a M4 - M7 rewind crank, you have to pay for the privilege via a la carte.). I find the M7 to be noticeably quieter than my M6s and M4.</p>

[jeff_guthrie]

<p>I have an M4 and an M6TTL, both of which I love and use regularly. The M4 is fully manual, so no batteries are needed, and if I somehow get stuck with dead batteries in the M6 I have something to fall back on. Having 2 cameras I can't see the benefit of adding a third, the money would probably be much better spent on a lens instead.</p>

[bruce_erickson1]

<p>I own 2 m7s and would not trade them in for any number of mps. I have "played" with an mp at the camera store, but can't see what all the fuss is about. I load one m7 with bw film and one with color. Get another m7. You can always get the experience of a classic M by simply removing the battery. You get two mechanical shutter speeds, usually enough for any situation. Of course you will need to use the sunny 16 rule for exposure or get a separate light meter. The famous Cartier-Bresson could guess the exposure within 1/2 stop w.o. a meter from what I have read about him. That seems a good thing to try to emulate. </p>

[knut_schwinzer]

<p>Richard, swappin' LEDs would make them going the wrong direction considering the aperture...<br>

I almost always fine-adjust exposure via aperture, not time.<br>

Best!<br>

Knut </p>

[kens]

<p>The M6TTL was shunned for two reasons: 1) this change in shutter dial rotation and 2) the TTL flash circuitry, which was perceived to be some sort of unnecessary gimicky electronic feature. I liked the TTL for these features, but they were not embraced by the old school. The TTL features were carried forward to the electronic M7, and they were more palatable to that type of customer. The MP, on the other hand, was intended to be the last all-mechanical traditionalist M, and as such demanded the old shutter dial.<br>

And now of course the digital M's use the TTL-type shutter speed dial, rather than the old traditional type. So I think for the future the die has been cast. <br>

So M7 or MP? I think you need to think about what these two different design styles represent: forward-thinking electronics, or retro-traditionalist all mechanical. What is your preference, your style, your comfort zone? There's no right or wrong answer; just your answer. If you really can't make up your mind, have one of each and see which one wins out over the long haul.<br>

Personally I prefer the MP over the M7. But I like them all, and I have moved on to the digital M, too.</p>

[Farkle-Mpls]

<p>Thank you to everyone who posted their responses. Overall, they were very helpful.</p>

<p>A couple, in particular, stuck in my mind and after much thought, heavily influenced my decision.</p>

<p>First, someone mentioned that when they shoot their M4-P, since they meter off-camera, they take the reading from the light meter and transpose it to the camera. I also have an M4-P and this is how I do it as well. Why this is important is it reinforced in my mind that the direction the shutter speed dial turns on my M4-P is irrelevant. I turn it by sight, not by feel.</p>

<p>Perhaps unlike many of you, my first Leica was an M7 (after years of Canon RFs). With that camera, I set the aperture and initial shutter speed by sight and will often fine-tune my metering while looking through the viewfinder. The arrows become my guide and it is very intuitive for me that the shutter speed and aperture turn in alignment with the arrows. At that point, I turn the shutter dial by feel. Importantly, for me, the predecessors to the M6TTL turn the WRONG way. (I know many of you find that heretical but understand, I started with an M7.)</p>

<p>What appealed to me about the MP -- beyond the obvious mystic -- was the fact that it was entirely mechanical in it's shutter operation (like my M4-P) but offered the benefit of an in-camera meter, which I like to use when the lighting is right. The fact that as I fine-tuned my metering while using it, I would be turning the shutter speed dial the "wrong" way (there I go again!) bugged me. And I understand I can get MPs with the updated film advance lever and rewind crank but the traditional controls really, upon reflection, are less important then I thought so those didn't hold any sway. The smoother shutter train is very nice but when I'm shooting, I'm not sure I would be aware of it and in terms of reliability, I don't think ANY model of Leica has a weak shutter train (if that's what it's called). For me, I decided, that wasn't worth the extra cha-ching.</p>

<p>I know there are other differences as well which I am not specifically calling out (in fact, one helpful soul from PN sent me a Leica MP Q & A book in the US Mail!).</p>

<p>As I read and studied -- and I did study! -- I came to the conclusion that an M6TTL would be right for my next Leica. I bought a nice one used this week (late serial # with 0.85 finder) and took it out for it's inaugural roll of film earlier today.</p>

<p>In short, I discovered I'm not a Leica "traditionalist" like I thought I was. I was tainted by starting late in my Leica shooting career with an M7! I guess there could be worse situations ;^)</p>

<p>I want to thank everyone for their helpful comments.</p>

 

[kens]

<p>Of course the <em>real</em> traditionalist eschews all this M stuff and concentrates on the Barnack thread mount equipment. <em>Dem M bodies is just too big</em>.<br>

But to each his own. There's enough to go around for everyone. Enjoy your M6TTL.</p>