The End of New Leica Film Cameras?

[robert_hooper1]

<p>Can anyone shed some light on the authenticity of <a href="http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/08/a-grand-85-years-it-was.html">this article</a>?</p>

[doctorbabaguy]

<p>The article indeed exists at that site, evidently written by Mike Johnston.</p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Doesn't seem to say that on the Leica USA site.</p>

[rossb]

<p> I guess I am not suprised but it seems strange anyway. Just a few weeks ago Cost Co told me they will not develop my film anymore. The photo world has really changed. Well I hope Leica does well with the new products they come out with. </p>

[rossb]

<p>Try this link:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201008220143.html">http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201008220143.html</a></p>

[Aoresteen]

<p>No worries! The newest Leica I have is an M4-P. It will still work 50 years from now.</p>

<p>There are plenty of used Leica cameras out there. And I have my Rollei TLRs & Hasselblads.</p>

[teneson]

<p>Now I can only look to Voigtlander for film-based rangefinder cameras. </p>

[daniel_mitschke]

<p>http://leicarumors.com/2010/06/23/leica-has-not-stopped-making-film-cameras.aspx/</p>

[Alex_Es]

<p>Thank you Daniel. To use a gawd awful cliche, it look like the death of analogue Leica M cameras has been greatly exaggerated. I've been thinking about getting an MP for the last decade. </p>

[john_boyle3]

<p>My local camera shop wil stock, develop and scan film as long as it is available. My M2 and M4 will be working long after I'm gone, thus nothing to worry about. There's still a demand for film with the many thousands of film cameras out there and I very much doubt that the industry will follow Costco's example. </p>

<p>What Leica does, or does not do, with their film cameras will have no effect on me or my photography. I have the equipment to take the kind of photos that I like and assume that this would apply to most of the contributors to this forum. While there is a degree of satisfaction with using Leicas, the real satisfaction is making and enjoying the pictures that the equipment can produce. </p>

[richard_francisco]

<p>That's sad. I hope they keep making parts.</p>

[david_werbeloff1]

<p>Hi All, plenty of old Leicas out there. What we REALLY need is a new crop of first rate camera techs to keep them going in ex-factory condition. Maybe Leica could make more money offering really comprehensive service for all the models they ever made. Best, David</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>From the Asahi.com link posted above:</p>

<p>"Even if we were to make a successor to the Leica MP, the price would have to be around 500,000 yen to 600,000 yen ($5,800 to $7,000)," Kaufmann added. "That would effectively put us in competition with second-hand Leicas, which would be pointless."</p>

<p>This is pretty much already the case. In the UK, a new MP or M7 goes for £3235 after VAT, or around $5000 USD. You can pick up a nice M6 for around £800. A decade or so ago, the secondhand M6 would have been about the same price, but a new M6-TTL would have been 'only' £1600 or so. Current new lens prices are equally insane - I see the 35/2 has now passed the £2000 mark. Even the humble 50/2.5 is close to £1000. I'd say that Leica effectively gave up on seriously competing with their principal rival in this market (old Leica!) some time ago; new film bodies are made (if they are still made) mostly for the price-insensitive boutique market.</p>

<p>'To use a gawd awful cliche, it look like the death of analogue Leica M cameras has been greatly exaggerated'</p>

<p>Hmm, the language from the marketing guy in Daniel's link looks awfully similar to what Kodak were saying about Kodachrome just a couple of years ago... Kaufmann may have been speaking 'off message', but I suspect his comments reflect the company strategy pretty accurately (give or take the odd batch of MPs assembled from existing parts to satisfy the tiny demand at the current asking price).</p>

[michael_dimarzio]

<p>Alex, you'll like an MP. It's just a camera and nothing else. It doesn't need or pretend to be something its' not. I guess actually, that's what L cameras are all about.</p>

[ray .]

Seems the real issue for those wishing to use a Leica film camera is how long film is available.

[leicaglow]

<p>Before you all keep crying in your Oettinger's, did you read the link Daniel posted?</p>

 

[michael_dimarzio]

<p>Ray, that does come to mind, why buy a camera that probably would last 100 years if I can't use it in 2110? In all seriousness, that is true. But I think our selection would be narrowed down to 3 b+w emulsions from China, less then 20 years.</p>

<p>Michael, what is Oettinger's? But the point is and I really think the link Daniel posted is, that Leica will only manufacture film cameras for as long as they make a profit. The really sad point to the thread is that there won't be a new film Leica. As that site points out, they'd have to compete with used cameras. But that seems to this old man that never did a college level biz class, that they can't come up with anything markedly better then what's on the used market. That would make the M7 the culmination and the MP the epitaph.</p>

<p> </p>

[didier]

<p>They seem to have stopped the production of mass-production models, ie MP and M7.<br>

The "a la carte" models seem to go on being produced on demand, at least for now. So this is not completely the end of film Leicas, they are just becoming even more of a niche-market.</p>

[michael j hoffman]

<p>Glad I picked up my MP a la carte when I did, back in 2006. I am getting spooked about the continued availability of film, though...especially slide film.</p>

<p>Michael J Hoffman</p>

[alex_stein]

<p>I think the Costco decision has pretty big implications. I can develop my own B&W but that's pretty limiting for a guy who loves to shoot chromes. The cheapest independent lab I can find out here in LA still runs at $10+/roll of 35mm just to process, never mind prints or even low-res scans. A&I, by far the biggest lab in the area, shut down its Santa Monica branch this year, meaning everything now gets shipped out to the valley, causing a two or three day wait for processing. North Coast down in San Diego has great service but now charges $6 on top of processing costs just for shipping. At a certain point the economics just don't add up to support what is essentially a hobby - it's increasingly difficult to argue a quality difference exists between 35mm and the better DSLRs (or digital rangefinders) out there. I think if anything more of us will move to medium format to gain the picture quality and make the cost a little more worthwhile. On the plus side the price of used Leicas will inevitably come down as people give up trying to justify the expense of using them vs. decent digital cameras.</p>

[robert_hooper1]

<blockquote>

<p>I think the Costco decision has pretty big implications.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Alex,</p>

<p>What is this news about Costco?</p>

<blockquote>

<p> </p>

</blockquote>

[alex_stein]

<p>It's being reported from several users that Costco photo lab locations are phasing out film processing altogether. I asked my local Costco if they had plans to stop film processing, and was told, "at some point, but I'm not sure when." Other users have been given answers at their locations ranging from, "Yes, in a couple months," to "Yes, when we see a sharp enough drop in film processing requests." As far as I've been able to tell, no one has heard a definitive "no" from any Costco location when asking recently if they would stop film processing. I'm giving it another year or two at the most before all locations stop processing film, depending on how many disposable cameras are sold/used during that time. I also realized I suggested in my last post that Costco still processed chromes, which of course they don't (they used to send them out, but have stopped that as well). Regardless, it's a great lab for cheap, quick processing and prints, and I think if/when they stop film processing, it will have a significant impact on the amount of 35mm film being used by casual hobbyists, which will in turn have a significant impact on the sales of 35mm cameras and film.</p>

[rossb]

<p> I think I originally mentioned CostCo in this thread. Our local CostCo stopped processing film a few months ago. The reason was they were losing money on film processing due to low film volume. I am currently sending my film to Picture Preview, Beaverton Oregon for processing. It is more expensive then CostCo mostly because of the shipping charge but still reasonable. They do produce better scans then CostCo gave me which is a plus. So for me I buy my film at BHPhoto and pay shipping of course. I then send the exposed film to Oregon and pay shipping. Then when I have prints made I have Mpix.com print for me and pay another shipping charge. I print a few pictures on my Epson Artisan 50. </p>

[Alex_Es]

<p>You are tempting me, Michael DiMarzio! :-)</p>

<p>Here in Japan it is easy to have film developed, though a number of branch labs have closed down. I live a few minutes away that not only processes color film in an hour but also provides proof sheets at no extra cost. This is to say that film is alive and well in this camera nut's paradise, which implies that Leica M cameras are also in demand here. </p>

<p>I finally not to hold an M9. In Canada. Still no M9s in the shops here. </p>

<p>An MP. Hmm. </p>

[robert_hooper1]

<p>If Costco stops selling and processing film here in Hawaii, it will probably mean the end of film photography for me. Purchasing film and having it shipped to Honolulu only to have to ship it back out of the state for processing and scanning will be expensive, time consuming, and highly impractical. This make me angry. I'm starting to hate digital. Even more so because I do not have an alternative, and I know film ultimately produce a better images, in my opinion. I may just stop taking pictures altogether. I don't shoot that much anymore, anyway. To hell with it, I'll just be a collector. I enjoy collecting except for the inflated prices. Plus, it's hard to find any undiscovered treasures in such a small market like Hawaii and most discoveries are ruined by fungus. </p>

<p>Time for my medication. :-)</p>