Alternative types feedback/rating?

[divo]

<p>A lot has been said about the rating system here at PN. I’ve been re-reading many of these posts, and I don’t want to reopen that debate: it’s clear that ratings do serve a purpose. On the other hand, those focussed on learning continue to express frustration with the quality of the feedback that they receive. Seeing as many of us joined PN to improve as photographers, is there some way of increasing the range of anonymous feedback and the ease with which it can be given/received? Typing a critique takes time, and comes with the deterrent of the possibility of an unintended flame war.</p>

<p>Would it be beneficial to add a different type of anonymous feedback section where critics could quickly click radio buttons (+/-) for aspects of the photo they liked/disliked (e.g. composition, perspective, use of colour, story, atmosphere, whatever…? Obviously, these categories would need to be discussed and fleshed out.) Users could simultaneously submit to this Learners Critique forum through another optional checkbox (like ‘for critique only’.) It would hopefully result in better quality feedback for photographers that really want to learn and improve. The goal would be to develop a profile of the photos strength and weaknesses as more people contributed critiques—a photo might also have to stay in circulation in this forum for longer than 24 hours. It would also help us as a community to develop better critical skills. Rather than, “Oh, I don’t like that at all!” we would be challenged to think about exactly what it is that we don’t like, which would hopefully help us in our own image making.</p>

<p>Obviously, the idea needs some work and fine-tuning, but would others find this helpful? Any thoughts?</p>

<p> </p>

[stamos]

<p>I do not like the idea of anonymous feedback. If a person (with full real name and surename) have an opinion sould / could write it (politely) and sign it. I do not have problem with balanced critiques (I welcome them) but I do not welcome unbalanced negative comments and especially I find unacceptable the behaviour of some members that write negative comments about models in photos.<br />Stamoulis Theodorikas.</p>

[Norma Desmond]

<p>I think people (both photographer and critic) will learn and benefit more from actually speaking about photos, talking about what they see and why they may like or dislike something, than from clicking on pre-fabricated buttons. In short, though I think it's always great to be considering new ways of critique and of engaging each other, it's not an idea I like.</p>

[divo]

<p>Stamoulis: Anonymous in the sense that ratings are anonymous. Users would still be signed in and could be tracked by admin the same way ratings are. Also, those not interested in this type of feedback wouldn't have to submit their photo to that type of critique.</p>

<p>Fred: Obviously that's ideal. Ironically, here at PN, it's the really talented photogs/photos that tend to generate most of the discussion/feedback. This is understandable to a degree, but I wonder if there are ways of making giving constructive critical feedback easier that will encourage more people to engage in the critical process. I'm not suggesting a replacement but an addition.</p>

[pnital]

<p>Devon<br /><br />The answer is simple, it is easy to add anonymous numbers ,and harder to write a real comment with your full name. So if you want to learn write what you think and you will get some back on your work. I write comments and a lot of them in my 9 years here. Learning takes time.... But I have learned a lot by doing it. I looked at your front page we are members about the same time,look the the number of comments in both our files. Just start working....;-))</p>

[Norma Desmond]

<p>Devon, just ask. I would happily critique someone's photo who asked me personally to do so. I think a lot of photographers here would. And that way, you get to look at the portfolios of fellow photographers and determine for yourself who you think might have some photographic insights to offer you.</p>

<p>Being active here also helps. Comment on photos and portfolios you like or think are good or that you've learned something from looking at and you may well have more people looking at your work because you've introduced yourself in that way.</p>

[divo]

<p>@Pnina: I see your point... to a degree. I have recently started to focus on writing comments rather than rating photos numerically. And yes, people do respond positively and have increased comments on my photos. That's great! So, yes, part of the responsibility lies with each of us to get involved.</p>

<p>However, I think the mechanics of the ratings system can tell us something relevant to written critiques as well. There is a reason why only anonymous rates are used for awarding prizes. On average, our ‘fans’ give us much higher ratings because of their relationship with us: it’s only human. (Named User gives 6/6 or 6/7, while anon gives 3/4 or 3/3.) It could be argued that our fans are more in tune with our work and make better judges; conversely, it could be argued that there are things our fans don't tell us. I think both types of feedback have value.</p>

<p>I speculate that there are quite a few 'lost voices' at PN that we could be learning from. PN has a lot of users for whom English is not a native language. They may not be able to clearly communicate in a written critique. Other users may be less comfortable with writing their thoughts down or be afraid to put their name to it because they have had bad experiences online. I know my personal experience with forums over the years has been quite mixed. Not all new members are going to have the confidence to interact through a written critique, even though their contributions could be really valuable to many others.</p>

<p>You're right. It <em>is</em> harder to write reviews, and I wonder how many valuable comments get lost because perceived risk outweighs reward. So, in an attempt to contribute to a community that I care about, I'm proposing ways to get more people active in the critical process. I’m just brainstorming ways to tap into these 'lost voices' and make us a stronger community. I think it would be great to know that 3 anonymous viewers really liked the use of colour but 8 didn't like my cropping. Over time, that could really help me know where to focus my learning efforts. </p>

 

[divo]

<p>@Fred: Thanks Fred. I'll keep you in mind.</p>

[pnital]

<p>Devon<br /><br />Thanks for writing your point of view, I appreciate it.I was using the rating system as well, but I have found out that there were photos of mine that started with 3/3, 4/4 till 7/7 the whole range,some 7/7 anonymous as well no explanation,so I came to the conclusion that it is not a good enough index. I still ask for critique as here at PN it go's together, and sometime good photographers that I did not know write a critique, and there are nice surprises.<br>

You are right that friends can give higher rating, another reason for me to prefer a written/substantial comments instead of numbers, developing also a dialogue by the way which can be very educational. I critique a photo for the photographer, but also for MY education, and I have learned a lot by doing it, and learn everyday new things and ideas.<br /><br />Devon. English is a foreign language for me too,many times especially in the forums I have problems, but I don't give up I try at least reading.My language today is much better. I have some comments written to me in Spanish (as an example) and I understand it most of the time. A translating system is also in the Google ( well not the best one but still).<br>

Devon, brainstorming is always good and interesting,new ways can help but at least for me ,the written word has a higher value of education. <br /><br />Nice talking to you, and see your work.</p>

[divo]

<p>Thanks again for your thoughts Pnina. Finding the most helpful combination of tools on a site like this must be a very difficult task for the administrators. Everybody has different needs and ideas about what is the best approach. I guess in the end we can only try to develop tools that the majority support and find helpful.</p>