Epson ABW vs. RGB for B&W prints

[robert goldstein]

<p>I have an Epson 3880 and have been using the ABW driver for B&W prints. However, I always add a warm tone in the Advanced settings, meaning that it is not a pure B&W process. Is there any advantage or disadvantage to printing B&W from RGB color files with appropriate toning? </p>

<p>Rob</p>

[digitaldog]

<p>Advantages is less ink used, more archival, it does the conversions for you. <br>

Disadvantages is you can’t control the conversions very well, nor see the effect until you actually make a print (no soft proof). </p>

[robert goldstein]

<p>Andrew,</p>

<p>I am doing the conversions in Silver Efex Pro, so I do not rely on ABW for that part of the processing. I have used some of Eric Chan's ABW paper profiles, which seem to work reasonably well for soft-proofing, but he does not provide them for all papers. Does ABW do a better job than RGB with tonal separation at the time of printing?</p>

<p>Rob</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>Robert, i can say that if you do not use the ABW and print from a RGB file using the correct icc profile, the result compare to the same print done in ABW is a slightly greener print, minimal and almost not perceptible but there when you look at both print under a calibrated daylight lamp or outside (keyword MINIMAL) . I have made some test from different kind of images and from different kind of pure BW image and the one from RGB printed with the *normal* color way using the correct icc profile gave me a bit of green in the print.</p>

<p>Other than that, the print look similar under normal condition and with my 2 eyes ; )</p>

<p>Remember when you use ABW and print from Photoshop you do not need a profile to get good result.. i mean in Photoshop prior to CS5 you should select NO COLOR MANAGEMENT in Photoshop, then ABW in the epson driver. I also add in the advanced menu beside the color wheel 3 and 3 in the horizontal and vertical white boxes for most of the paper i use.. i find the epson neutral to be a bit colder for my taste.</p>

<p>If you print from CS5, since you cant anymore select NO COLOR MANAGEMENT you should now then choose Photoshop managed color, and choose Adobe RGB as your ICC profile, then the normal ABW etc... in the epson driver with the 3 / 3 that i explain before.. just the ICC profile in Photoshop change.</p>

<p>I dont use the soft proofing function so i dont really care about it, having a calibrated monitor and a good epson 7880, and also using almost the same paper i know that what i see is what i will get. But what if i use a new paper? nothing compare for me to have the real thing in your hand, so i make one print and adjust the rest from it.. again, no need for soft proofing... but that is me.. and 15 years of epson printing 40x time a week ; )</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Remember when you use ABW and print from Photoshop you do not need a profile to get good result.. i mean in Photoshop prior to CS5 you should select NO COLOR MANAGEMENT in Photoshop, then ABW in the epson driver.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>May wish to try using Photoshop Manages Color and selecting Adobe RGB (1998) which will also work in CS5 now that No Color Management is gone from that dialog. ABW expects a gamma 2.2 document. </p>

[robert goldstein]

<blockquote>

<p>Remember when you use ABW and print from Photoshop you do not need a profile to get good result.. i mean in Photoshop prior to CS5 you should select NO COLOR MANAGEMENT in Photoshop, then ABW in the epson driver. I also add in the advanced menu beside the color wheel 3 and 3 in the horizontal and vertical white boxes for most of the paper i use.. i find the epson neutral to be a bit colder for my taste.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Patrick,</p>

<p>I find this very interesting, because it is directly at odds with Eric Chan's recommendations for printing with ABW but without profiles on his Epson 3800 website:</p>

 

<ol>

<li>Go to the File menu and choose <strong>Print with Preview...</strong> (CS2) or <strong>Print...</strong> (CS3 and CS4). In the box that comes up, set the Color Handling popup menu to <strong>Let Photoshop Determine Colors</strong> (CS2) or <strong>Photoshop Manages Colors</strong> (CS3 or CS4). </li>

 

<li> Set the Printer Profile menu to <strong>sRGB</strong> (the full name may appear as <strong>sRGB IEC61966-2.1</strong>). <strong><em>This step is very important!</em></strong>

<p><em>Technical note #1: If you are attempting to print from Lightroom to the ABW driver, then in this step you will need to choose "Other..." from the Profile popup menu and check the <strong>Include Display Profiles</strong> checkbox in the ensuing dialog box.</em><br>

<em>Technical note #2: why don't we specify a printer profile the same way we do when printing a RGB color image? Furthermore, in the previous section on printing RGB color images, weren't we specifically warned NOT to select a working space profile like sRGB? Good questions. The answer to the first question is that the ICC profiles that we normally use for printing color images are only designed to work with the Epson RGB color driver, not the Epson ABW driver. The answer to the second question is that the ABW driver is expecting to receive image data that is encoded with the sRGB gamma function (approximately a 2.2 gamma-encoding curve).</em></p>

 

</li>

<li> Set the Rendering Intent popup menu to <strong>Relative Colorimetric</strong>. </li>

</ol>

<p>Perhaps both methods can give good results, but I would not expect them to give the same results, unless "no color management" gives a gamma 2.2.<br>

What I am hearing from you and Andrew is that the <em>quality</em> of B&W prints is essentially the same, using either ABW or RGB.</p>

<p>Rob</p>

[jtk]

<p><em>" would not expect them to give the same results, unless "no color management" gives a gamma 2.2."</em><br>

"No color management" ALLOWS (but does not "give") gamma 2.2 when you select it.</p>

 

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p><em >" would not expect them to give the same results, unless "no color management" gives a gamma 2.2."</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>No CMS may or may not provide a 2.2 gamma. It depends on the OS’s and print drivers assumption about the data. More likely than not, it probably is a 2.2 gamma (assuming sRGB). </p>

[ianbarber]

<blockquote>

<p>May wish to try using Photoshop Manages Color and selecting Adobe RGB (1998) which will also work in CS5 now that No Color Management is gone from that dialog. ABW expects a gamma 2.2 document.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I am using a Mac system (Mountain Lion) and CS6<br>

I am unable to select the ABW Driver if i let PhotoshopManage Colors. I have to let the Printer Manage Colors to get access to the ABW Driver.<br>

Am I right in saying that I need to convert my document from Pro Photo down to Adobe RGB 1998 just before I Print with the ABW Driver ?</p>

[robert goldstein]

<blockquote>

<p>I am using a Mac system (Mountain Lion) and CS6<br />I am unable to select the ABW Driver if i let PhotoshopManage Colors. I have to let the Printer Manage Colors to get access to the ABW Driver.<br />Am I right in saying that I need to convert my document from Pro Photo down to Adobe RGB 1998 just before I Print with the ABW Driver ?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The latest Epson ABW drivers for Lion and Mountain Lion specifically require "printer manages color". This makes it impossible to use an ICC profile or to perform soft proofing. For the most part, the results are very good, but it does mean that ABW is something of a black box. You don't know what you are going to get until it comes out of the printer. I have started using ImagePrint, which does have specific gray profiles for zillions of papers and does allow soft proofing (within Photoshop, if you so desire). I think that the results are better than what I was previously able to get printing with Adobe/Epson, but ImagePrint is expensive, especially if you have a large printer.<br /> <br /> If you insist on soft proofing your B&W images, you can keep them in RGB and use an appropriate profile. It is my understanding that there are certain advantages to ABW, such as higher Dmax, but they may not be enough to matter in most instances. Run your own tests to find out.</p>

<p>Rob</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>I am unable to select the ABW Driver if i let PhotoshopManage Colors. I have to let the Printer Manage Colors to get access to the ABW Driver.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Correct. You can’t use that option any longer. You have to let the printer manage color, then you’ll have an option for ABW.</p>