"Watching the Leica Forum 'Topics' Shrink"

[jsc1]

<p>'fewer and fewer submissions...'<br>

Drama? <br>

Will the 'Leica & Rangefinder' forum finally have 'nothing' whatsoever in it?<br>

And, then, where will it 'travel?"<br>

for it is truly valuable.<br>

*****<br>

Josiah</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>Maybe we should start talking about what the M10 will provide. Possibly live view, a flip mirror for lower angle viewing and 25-30 MP? But maybe not, as that might be getting too close to the S2.</p>

<p>It's surprising that the forum is retreating recently after all the activity last year andearly 2010. Maybe Leicaistes are all on vacation in May-June? The medium format forum, highly analogue in content, is quite active. </p>

[joseph_wisniewski]

<blockquote>

<p>But maybe not, as that might be getting too close to the S2.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>My sources say that the S2's neck is already on the block, so that doesn't seem an issue...</p>

<p>My best bet is 24mp with a Sony LiveView capable sensor and the electronics moving from Phase One to the guys who did the APS P&S.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The medium format forum, highly analogue in content</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The industry is active. We've seen recent announcements about</p>

<ul>

<li>Resuming production of analog Rollei TLRs</li>

<li>Digital RZ from MAC</li>

<li>Pentax 645D</li>

<li>Leica S</li>

<li>New models from Blad and P1</li>

<li>A new Fuji folder</li>

</ul>

<p>Has there been any rangefinder news (aside from the Voigtlander 15mm being available in M mount instead of LTM) at all in 2010?</p>

[aplumpton]

<p>Joseph, I doubt it has anything to do with equipment, but more to do with the activity (or lack of it) of Leica photographers.</p>

<p>Talking about MF equipment, though, The Fuji folder is not at all new, at least two years old in Japan and NA (as the original Fuji, the Bessa lookalike in NA and now the same thing with the Fuji name and source in NA distribution), the S2 Leica is not 2010, and the news from Rollei I will only believe when I see it (the so-called new F&H is another company apparently just distributing leftover Rollei production - at least for now).</p>

[paul_neuthaler]

<p>I'm really into pistols now</p>

[michael_dimarzio]

<p>I smell a black powder vs. smokeless rant coming on.</p>

<p>I prefer Tasrs to film.</p>

[SolaresLarrave]

Looks like we could use another citizen Fr*nk, to clog the forum with idle questions. Remember the guy?

 

Let's hope he doesn't come to the rescue...

[joshroot]

<p>The fact is that the slowdown of the Leica forum is primarily a result of the overall slowdown in film photography. There are simply fewer people using the products, fewer new people looking to buy the products, and fewer new products coming out for the existing people to talk about.</p>

[don_essedi]

<p>Then there's been the credit crunch...</p>

 

[robert_hooper1]

<blockquote>

<p>The fact is that the slowdown of the Leica forum is primarily a result of the overall slowdown in film photography. There are simply fewer people using the products, fewer new people looking to buy the products, and fewer new products coming out for the existing people to talk about.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I wish this would translate into lower prices for used Leica equipment on eBay and other sources. So far, I don't see that happening.</p>

[torben_daltoft]

<p>The slowdown of the Leica forum is primarily a result of the competing forums (LUF) being better</p>

[joshroot]

<blockquote>

<p>I wish this would translate into lower prices for used Leica equipment on eBay and other sources. So far, I don't see that happening.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's funny, I almost made mention of that when posting the above comment.</p>

<p>After so many years of helping their bottom line, you start to wonder if the fact that the collector market still values Leica's so much tends to keep those used prices high. You think that if they dropped some we would see more new Leica shooters.</p>

[joshroot]

<blockquote>

<p>The slowdown of the Leica forum is primarily a result of the competing forums (LUF) being better</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Removing the debate over how a forum should be run in terms of policy, functionality, or design, the fact is that film based photography is generally on a downward trend. A quick look at alexa shows that LUF's pageviews/traffic as flat to downward trending in the past 2 years. Now, Alexa is just one (free) place to look at that sort of thing, and they can be wrong. However, I would bet that they aren't that far off in this instance.</p>

<p>Now, that having been said, when the popularity of something starts to dwindle it's pretty natural for the people left doing that activity to try and band together rather than be spread out across a broader area. APUG is a good example of that and perhaps LUF is another. PN tries to meet the needs of a lot of people over a broad spectrum of photography and can easily be less satisfying to someone who is looking for a very targeted subject matter.</p>

<p>Still, I would be willing to bet a case of beer that most, if not all, film based photography forums that have been around for any amount of time (as growth is heavily weighted towards the beginning of something's existence) are past their days of strong growth. I would guess that those that are doing well are maintaining what they had while the others are slowly going downwards in terms of audience and participation.</p>

<p>It's a shame, but it is what it is.</p>

[don_essedi]

<p>I use a III, IIIf, a Summar, Elmar 50 3.5, Elmar 90 4. Scraping the bottom of the Leica barrel I guess. It's my fave kit, tho'. Perhaps there's little to say anymore about old kit. Just post some snaps and relax.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[Alex_Es]

<p>The problem is not that there are less film users. One, Leica now makes digital cameras, which could also be subjects of discussion. Two, please note that the classic manual camera forum is thriving. Three, note that the Rangefinder Forum website is thriving, even though it is a pain to navigate.<br>

<br /> The main problem is mostly past bad blood.<br>

<br /> Though most of that bad blood is in the past, its effects are still with us. A lot of good people left because of this and never returned. Flaming still goes on, though most of it is of the low flame variety. Result is that a lot of people feel inhibited about sharing ideas and techniques.<br>

<br /> And then there is Flickr. You get lots of positive feedback there. Discussion there does not equal the depth of discussion of Photo.net however. But a lot of the shell shocked end up there.<br>

<br /> I should mention, at the risk of being censored, that in the past inappropriate administrative actions and inactions help either generate the bad blood or let do its stuff unhindered.<br>

<br /> Why was the Leica Photo Forum so saturated with bad blood? I do not know. I do know there are a lot of good people who would be contributing to this forum today were they not scared off.</p>

<p> </p>

[bjscharp]

Maybe the M9 is so good that all Leica users have finally stopped hanging around on forums discussing gear, and are actually out there shooting?

 

 

Nah, that'll never happen...

[Karim Ghantous]

<p>I think all the above are valid to some degree. It's just a matter of putting them in order. Alex, I know what you mean. I miss Jay (whatever his real name is) and the late Al Kaplan.</p>

<p>Well, it's a funny old world. Polaroid film is back. There is a b&w emulsion which out-resolves the M9, but that has limited purposes. Colour film has been let down - where is today's Ektar 25? Everything affects everything else. It's all connected.</p>

[leslie_cheung]

<p>Well...for one thing, I could (and did) muster up and spend $1200 on used M6's. But $2500 for used M8 and $7000 for M9 are waaaay outta my league. Then, there are these other RF sites... </p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>In olden times even back the the Grunspun /Leica board one had the folks running off /railroading folks if NON Leica LTM lenses were mentioned. Some "scared" thing was broken.<br>

There were somethreads were sole purpose as not to talk about the merits of a 50mm Summicron versuis a NON leica item; it was to quash the discussion; to end it thru deep hatred.,</p>

<p>Thus eons ago If I mosted some shots of an Industar-50 Russian LTM versus my NEW style LTM 50mm F2; all hell broke loose. The whole thing seemed real odd. LTM was in a deep deep funk in the late 1960's; a IIIc body was about 25bucks at Olden Camera; a 5cm F2 Nikkor LTM was about 8 bucks. Dealers were flooded with LTM stuff; so much so that common stuff had little worth. Folks would trade in their LTM stuff and buy a new Petri slr with 50mm and a 135mm lens too. The trade in stuff was so worthless that one had to pad its worth to make folks "feel good"; you inflated the Petir's price a bit to make the trade in higher.</p>

<p>With 5cm F2 Nikkors and 5cm F2 Summars going for 8 to 10 bucks; a dealer would buy one for 2 to 4 bucks; depending onon how many he had in drawers.<br>

The 1990's saw a resurgance of LTM stuff and M stuff too. I am afraid that some folks were run out of town in earlier ages; since one had less tolerance for none LTM dialog. It was downright taboo; like all non LTM stuff was crap to some old fiesty chaps. Thus other boards got formed for Russian stuff on old Yahoo groups; later Beststuff. One had 10 to 20 times the activity 10 years ago about Russian LTM stuff compaired to here. One has/had other boards that were more tolerant of non leica LTM stuff; thus folks moved or posted their.</p>

<p>Currently we have folks posting LEICA and non Leica LTM item questions on the classical section; where many probably could/should be in theLeica section. Maybe this too is just the old fear of a question about a 10.5cm LTM Nikkor not being a proper Leica topic; thus folks want less flack; or find it easier in the non leica areas.</p>

<p>In a way the old guards fiesty inforcement of purity achieved its goal; since one today has folks asking if a 5cm F2 Summar will fil on a Zorki 4 TLM not on the Lieca board; but in the classical area; or other boards.</p>

<p>Somethings the same question gets asked in the classical and Leica areas at once; and one gets dilution.</p>

<p>Eons ago I posted on a thread some shots with my Leica M3 and F1 Noct; verus my Zorki 3c and Canon LTM 50mm F1.2 . All hell broke loose. Sort of like comparing a Milwuakee to a harbor Freight saw; taboo to no end.</p>

<p>The whole thing comes across as odd to me. LTM lenses were made by about every lens maker. Leica made the minority of them. Here we had a resurgeance of LTM excitement in the mid to late 1990's; and we ran folks off.</p>

<p>With Al's early 15mm VC lens shots; he took some flak. the lens was not a leica lens. </p>

<p> </p>

[john_lawrence4]

<p>I'm with Alex on this.</p>

<p>A lot of people who used to post regularly here migrated to other forums due to the abuse that was being hurled both at them and at others a few years back. Once you've gone, or been on the end of it, you kind of lack the enthusiasm to come back and / or post again on a regular basis.</p>

<p>Another well known forum I regularly post on has recently had the same problem, and they've seen a number of people leave and have tried to 'nip it in the bud' by getting more moderators on board to keep an eye on the content of the posts.</p>

<p>John</p>

<p> </p>

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

<p>On another forum, options are offered to forum users, two of them could help here.<br>

<strong>Ignore Lis</strong>t<br>

This is where a user can type in a persons name and those comments are not shown to the user.<br>

<strong>Ignore Threads</strong><br>

This is where a thread can be ignored by a user.<br>

Just a thought to help. If someone gets under the skin options/controls are present to each user.</p>

<p> </p>

[paul_neuthaler]

<p>Don, nice shot. I have, and love, all the old Leica glass, etc. Karim, I agree with you: Jay & Al (RIP) were contentious but fun, and they kept me dialing in.</p>

[ty_mickan]

<p>personally, i find it enjoyable following the digicam forums such as nikon and canon. i love reading questions and comments like:</p>

 

<ul>

<li> "i've had my d40 for seven months, so i'm due for an upgrade"</li>

<li> "i've got a 17-35mm zoom, and a 50- 105mm zoom. i really need a zoom to cover the 35-50mm range...please help me choose"</li>

<li> "i just bought a nifty fifty, and although i have to zoom with my feet now :( it's somehow exhilerating :)</li>

</ul>

<p><br /> what is there really to discuss about the leica m cameras that hasn't been talked to death already? all that there is left to do is go out and shoot.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Here I own Leica and Non Leica glass. They range from 1970's Noct and New LTM Summicron 50mm F2 to a wad of few dollar Russian LTM stuff. An old favorite of mine is my 50 year old 10.5cm F2.5 LTM Nikkor; used on Leica M3 and the Epson RD-1. I am not a collector; I am a user. To me the Leica board has always been about LTM stuff too whether the lenses are VC, Russian, Canon, Kodak, Minolta, Nikon or a Sears Tower LTM body with an old Summar.</p>

<p> The drop in film usage is a big factor too</p>

[graham_thompson1]

<p>And then Ken bought one.............</p>