Newbie: Pentax 67

[RaymondC]

<p>Hi, looking at medium format. The Pentax looks like it suits me, how bad is the mirror slap? I do mostly landscapes and cityscapes incl night with Velvia 50, either handheld at faster speeds or on tripod but I can easily avoid 1/60 to 1 sec.</p>

<p>What is the lenses that use filter threads larger than 77? I have my filters standardised at 77mm. <br /> I don't use flash.</p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

[mike_earussi1]

<p>If you shoot on a tripod and use mirror lock up the mirror slap is nonexistant, but the shutter kick can really screw you up if you do shoot between 1/60-1 sec. Handheld I've never noticed any mirror slap as your hands absorb it all. I've successfully shot as low as 1/30 sec using the 45mm lens handheld and got razor sharp images, but you must use the wooden grip in order to do so.</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>Many of the P67 lenses have larger than 77mm filters. They are; 45mm, both zooms, 75mm f/4.5, 75 shift, 300mm EDIF and the old 300mm, 500 f/5.6 and the 400 Takumar if you use a front filter in lieu of the rear 77mm. (The 400 Takumar doesn't like rear filters due to reflections but the other long lenses that have rear filter ability do fine with the rear filters).</p>

[RaymondC]

<p>How is the shutter slap with speeds longer than 1 sec?<br>

<br />The wooden grip, how do you use that? Both hands on the grip? Ie., the P67II. </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>The shutter vib issue has been covered in great detail here in the past but to give you a short answer, shutter vib is not a problem unless you are using the longer lenses (300mm to 1000mm) in the 1/2 to 1/30 second range. Just make sure you are using a good tripod, not some 3 lb cheapo.</p>

[janne_moren]

Shutter slap is a problem only for longer lenses (200mm or up) that unbalance the whole setup, and apparently resolved by adding weight on top of the camera or using a second tripod or an extra strut from the tripod so both lens and body are supported and can't start swinging. For what it's worth, I have had no such problem with a 165mm lens.

 

With shorter lenses, mirror slap and shutter slap is much less of a problem than you may think. In practice you can use the 1/focal length rule of thumb for handheld shots, with 1/60 for the wide lenses, 1/125 for normals and 1/250 for short teles. You can of course go another stop or two slower but your miss rate will increase.

 

Check this link for a table of available lenses and their filter sizes: http://web.mit.edu/dennis/www/pentax67/lens-info.html

[RaymondC]

<p>How about longer than 1 sec speeds?</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

[leo_papandreou1]

<p>The 67II is perfectly sharp at any shutter speed if you use an adequate tripod and raise the mirror. On a series 5 Gitzo, mine utters a soft click at the begining of a long exposure, causing a few molecules to fidget no doubt but that's about it. I can hold the camera steadier than a DSLR by resting it against the V formed by arm when my left hand comes around to touch my right shoulder. A DSLR (mine anyway) is too small and light for that trick to be effective. Note: steadier, not steady. I use a strap instead of the grip. I find the grip less than useless.</p>

 

[janne_moren]

Ray, shutter vibration is caused by the whole camera and lens setup swinging like a pendulum (which is why shorter lenses are fine). So you'll probably have a problem with that for longer than 1 second as well. But again, only if you use long lenses, and only if you don't add an extra strut to stop the swinging. As an aside, I suspect a lot of cameras have the same issue with long lenses; it's just not as obvious there.

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>Actually the long lenses do fine at 1 sec and longer as witnessed by my many shots taken in that range.</p>

[dan_mcclain]

<p>I had the same questions when I first owned a 6x7 (first MLU model). I quickly stopped worrying and just enjoyed taking photos. Handheld shots at 1/shutter or higher were sharp, even at 16x20. On a tripod with speeds between 1/30 and 2 seconds I would lay my hand on top of the prism as a primitive dampener. The results from both my handheld and tripod shots were always outstanding. I never used the wooden grip or any sophisticated tripod system. I never used a lens longer than 165mm, so if you go for long telephoto work you will probably need to take some precautions. <br>

You'll have a lot of fun with that camera. </p>

<p> </p>

[leo_papandreou1]

I should have said, my experience is limited to focal lengths 200mm and shorter. Results are as good as Hasselblad, at least. Hasselblad lenses are probably better (so I hear; I've used only the 80mm CF T*, which is astonishing) but the larger film area of the Pentax compensates. Seriously, this is a great camera, my favorite. I only regret not getting one sooner. In fact I'm going to sell my DSLR equipment to finance another, in case the first one falls in a lake or whatever. You say you shoot land- and cityscapes. Then you need (1) a P&S to find the pictures, (2) a 67 to take them, another day, after a good breakfast, and (3) there is no three. The F6 you covet in another thread will seem like a waste of money after you've shot the Pentax.

[chrise_boris]

<p>Hi Ray, the shutter vibe and mirror slap problems are highly exaggerated. Most important is to have a good hand-holding technique. The weight of the camera is actually an advantage in that respect. I press my upper left arm firmly against the side of my chest so that the elbow is touching the lowermost ribs, my left hand firmly under the camera allowing the fingers of the left hand to focus and set the aperture while I trip the shutter with my right thumb by means of short cable release kept between my index finger and my middle finger. The right middle, ring and little fingers are gripping loosely around the camera and they can also control mirror lock-up if desired. The lowermost area of my right palm also supports the lower right edge of the camera. My upper right arm also presses against the side of my chest. I believe this technique offers much better support than using the accessory left-hand wooden grip. It works equally well with both the waistlevel finder, prisms or chimney finder, but critical focusing is harder with the prisms. Finally exhale and trip the shutter!<br>

<br /> Have a look at some of my photos taken with the P67 on a recent Turkey trip. Some of them were taken hand-held (it says in the caption) at the so called critical shutter speeds. They are all very sharp.<br>

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87218</p>

[Christopher Sperry Photogr]

<p>Ray - You may also be considering an L bracket for a Pentax 67. Kirk Enterprises offers an L bracket which they state only fits the 6x7II, meaning 67II. It has been discussed here before, and the L bracket does also fit the P67. You just have to remove the L bracket to access the battery compartment on the P67.<br>

http://www.kirkphoto.com/L-Bracket_for_6x7_II.html</p>

[RaymondC]

<p>Thanks. I am looking at the one of the P67s or maybe a Mamiya 7 but hesistant. I like it is lighter thou. </p>

<p>I wish I could get a rectangular box system but I do mostly outdoor photog incl travel. <br>

The F6, oh yes, it is nice, I been taking my FM2N and F100 out loaded with film out with me each day now to work etc. for the what if. I think the F6 can wait. It is really a nice addition to treat myself that's all. </p>

<p>Cheers.</p>

[User_2000406]

<p>The issue is real: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax67ii.shtml</p>

<p>I use the Really Right Stuff bracket which cradles the lens and locks to the ballhead to avoid the panning motion that the shutter tries to create, and it works fine even with the 300mm lens and the 1.4 teleconverter. I also make it a point to use a relatively heavy tripod and ballhead.</p>

[robert_thompson14]

<p>Hey everyone -- just contributing my 2 cents ... I am also a newbie to medium format. After shooting digital for many years, I have rediscovered the unique joys of using film. I happened (through word-of-mouth) to make contact with a retiree who was liquidating his photography equipment.</p>

<p>As luck would have it, he had a gently-used Pentax 67, with 3 lenses, a Lowepro case, and a grocey-bag full of freezer-kept 120 film (kodak, fuji, ilford, agfa -- a big variety). I could hardly contain my excitement when he accepted my reasonable but modest offer and I carted off my treasures back to my house.<br /> <br /></p>

<p>Chrise Boris -- after viewing your Turkey photos, I am 100% certain that I made a great decision in getting this camera. What amazing shots! Definitely proof that film is still a fantastic way to take pictures.</p>

[chrise_boris]

<p>Robert - Thank you so much for your very nice comment! I appreciate it very much. I hope you'll have a great time with your new Pentax 67 capturing many memorable photos! Would be great to see your photos so you could also post a link here to share them! Unless youre going to print your color shots in the darkroom it's important to use a high quality scanner in order to get the most out of the negs. I recommend a used pro flatbed, which is what I use, or a drum scanner. You can find these scanners on the used market (especially on the craigs nationwide list and in the classifieds sections of some photo forums) often for bargain prices. There are three forums where there are many experts on high end scanner:</p>

<p>The yahoo scan hi-end group - <a href="http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScanHi-<em>End </em></a></p>

<p>The Digital hardware section of Large format photography forum<em> - <a href="http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/">http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/</a></em></p>

<p>And the Hybrid photo forum - <a href="http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/">http://www.hybridphoto.com/forums/</a><br /> Best, Chris</p>

[jason]

<p>The Pentax 67 is a superb instrument. The lenses are first rate. The focal plane shutter offers very accurate speeds.You have a rectangular image that fits photo paper.It was very reliable.I found the camera way too heavy,very critical of weak battery.The weight seems to double for each yard you take from your front door.In the end I seldom used it. Traded for a Leica M-6 at Samy's LA. Shot more film in a few weeks than the previous 26 years..I still think except for flash synch, the nicer camera, for me,than the Hasselblad 500 series, which has always been a problem to focus.</p>

[Christopher Sperry Photogr]

<p>Ray, Have you visited the Pentax Photo Gallery? There are wonderful Pentax 6x7 photographs. For photos taken with particular 67 lenses, search under Image Data -- the 67 lenses are at the bottom of the list. I hope Pentax maintains this site forever. Perhaps they are still accepting professional P67 images for the gallery?</p>

<p>http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=HOME&subSection=0&subSubSection=0&language=EN</p>

[dan_south]

<p>Mirror slap is no issue if you have a model with mirror lock-up (USE it!). However, the large focal plane shutter can also shake the camera. I had problems with sharpness until I bought a custom tripod plate for my 67 II from Really Right Stuff and mounted the camera of a very sturdy tripod. No vibration problems with this setup (using MLU). I use lenses up to 200 mm. Longer than that you might have problems.</p>

<p>I own a bunch of lenses. The filters are all 82, 77, or 67 mm. No exceptions.</p>

[jim_krupnik]

<p>The Pentax is a fine camera, and I used a P67 kit for work quite a few years ago. At the risk of being killed by P67 supporters though, I would suggest that if you are new to MF film shooting, you look elsewhere for your first camera system.</p>

<p>Pentax makes some fine lenses for the 67 system, but then again, all MF gear is available at bargain prices today. I would suggest that you go for a 6x7 system that uses lens shutters, no matter what brand. Bronica and Mamiya are two fine offerings. If you are already heavy into 77mm filters, go with Mamiya RB/RZ systems. They are almost entirely 77mm in filter pitch, and share front accessories perfectly with my Canon L lenses. </p>

<p>My two pet peeves with the P67 system are that the top flash sync speed is measured with a sundial, and even with mirror lockup, I am absolutely certain that every time I triggered that massive focal plane shutter back in the Cold War era, a seismograph in Moscow recorded the event.</p>

<p>There are millions of fine pics taken with the P67 system, and some folks love it so much that they will never give ground to another brand, but the fact remains that the massive inertia of the shutter HAS to reduce the potential of the lenses, and the non-existant flash sync is a serious PITA if you ever even contemplate using a strobe when the sun is up. Ever.</p>

<p>Buy a nice Bonica GS, Mamiya RZ, or one of the 6x7 rangefinders with lens shutters. Build on that first. The accessories available for cheap will amaze you. Polaroid backs, swappable film backs, etc. The sky is the limit. If you want to play with a P67 at a later point, go for it!. I've been gathering a new P67 kit from the used market recently, but it is just a matter of nostalgia, and not because it is the best MF foundation for a new film convert.</p>

<p>I don't mean to raise the ire of the P67 masses (I know, it's already coming), but looking at the MF scene from the neutral corner of a long time P67 system owner, as well as a Bronica, Hasselblad, and Mamiya system owner over a 45 year span, I think the appearance of the P67 to the MF newbie as being a functionally equivalent, scaled up version of a standard 35mm SLR is pretty much a parlor trick.</p>

<p>Look very carefully at what a particular system offers in terms of your current expectations, as well as future application growth. Be very honest in assigning weight to various pros and cons, and see where the chips fall. If that still makes a P67 system the optimum choice for your MF film starter kit, God bless you. Go for it. </p>

[racerxphoto]

<p>Ray here are some links to other P67 galleries<br>

Chris Wilson photos will really inspire you<br>

http://www.travel67.com/<br>

http://www.ok1000pentax.com/2007/08/experiencing-pentax-67-interview-with.html<br>

Travel Galley of a P67 users images of South America lots of 35mm fisheye work<br>

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=183447<br>

More here<br>

http://www.ukgser.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=54fcb9a50367e3db8192379c48ff1176&f=303<br>

Description of his adventure<br>

http://www.photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00TEnx</p>