Alien bees or White Lightening

[clark_king4]

<p><a href="../photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00W32N">http://www.photo.net/photography-lighting-equipment-techniques-forum/00W32N</a><br>

Above is my original post i wanted to re post bc i added alot to this...</p>

 

<p >Thank you for all the responses! I love all the input it’s really a big help!! I am thinking now however that the power of the ab1600 and 800 is probably what I need. I am used to heavy camera equipment and could often have an assistant if necessary. My main goal as mentioned is quality of light. Now I have been to the AB (Paul c buff) website and am wondering what the difference is between the White Lightening and AB units. As far as quality of light is concerned what are the differences between the White Light., Ab’s, Elincrome, etc….</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Are the “packages” a good place to start? Can I just plug a power strip/surge protector into a residential power outlet to power the strobes? I am not at all interested in having cords everywhere so can I still use a wireless system/triggers like pocket wizards to trigger the units? I know that my 5dmkII’s ettl system won’t work with the studio strobes but I am used to doing things in manual mode anyway. If I was to get 3 ab1600 to start it is probably overkill for my home studio space, but will I be able dial the power down so that a 1600 could be usable as a background or hair light? I would want plenty of power for outdoor shoots which is probably what I will do most. I don’t want to spend all this on a lighting system just to find out that I don’t have enough power. Will 2 1600’s and 1 800 be enough to power most situations? I don’t have a reference for the actual output of a AB800 vs. and AB1600, or similar across manufacture lines. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >That’s a lot of questions; please, please offer advice where you can!!!!</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Thank you very much!!!</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>An AB1600 has twice the power of a B800. In real life, twice the light is <em>one stop</em>. So, that would mean that you could stop a lens down from f/8 to f/11, and get the same exposure. It takes great, whopping amounts of energy to add a "lot" more light to a scene, in terms of how it meaningfully impacts the exposure. But if you'll be outside, competing with the sun (you don't say what you'll be shooting ... dogs? locomotives? whole houses at night?), then more is always better.<br /><br />With the White Lightning 1600, it has a mode that lets you quarter the unit's power, making it a lot more indoor-friendly. The AB1600 doesn't do that, which makes the AB800 a little more useful for most people indoors, especially if you're using a digital camera with a baseline ISO of 200.<br /><br />In practical terms the quality of light between the AB and WL units is the same ... because they're rigged to use the same modifiers. If you went instead with Buff's upcoming new Einstein units (but you'll have to wait a while), you'd have some more flexibility when it comes to fussing over flash duration and color temperature ... but for most people that aren't spending fortune on lighting, that's splitting hairs, compared to all of the other variables that make or break your use of lights. Mostly, that's in the form of which modifiers you choose, and how cleverly you use them.<br /><br />Yes, you can plug 'em in the wall, and use radio triggers. If you don't already have a set, and you're looking at ABs or WLs, you might seriously look at the wireless stuff from that maker, because the Cyber Commander and Cybersync widgets, if you buy the right combinations, will allow you to adjust power on each of your Buff strobes remotely - a huge asset, especially when you have monolights up on booms, or at a distance when working outside.</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>Since you'll be lugging your gear around, I would suggest White Lightnings for durability. They have metal housing, a longer warranty (5 years vs. 2 years on the Bees), a larger 250 watt modeling lamp vs. 150 watt on the Bees, and as Matt said, the X1600s have a 1/4 power switch. They're 660ws, and power all the way down to just over 5ws, according to customer service when I ordered mine. I'm shooting food right now, so small scale stuff, and they are just wonderful to work with! The X800 doesn't power down any lower than the X1600, so if you think you'll ever need lots of power for larger group shots or something, I'd just go with three X1600s.<br>

I wouldn't plug more than two lights into one household circuit, since they draw 6 amps each and peak at 18 amps when fired, although I assume it's a bit less when not fired at full power. Most household outlets are 15 amps. If you're going to shoot outdoors though, you'll need a Vagabond battery pack anyway since you may not always be near a power source, and you could then use that indoors as well.<br>

I also have the Cybersyncs, but not the CyberCommander, so I still have to adjust my lights manually but can fire them remotely. From what I've read on their site, the CyberCommander takes quite a bit of setup with their current line of lights (it's really made for the yet to be released Einsteins), but once you have it set up, it's done and then you can adjust everything remotely. As for cords and things, the Cybersync receiver plugs into the light, and then the power cord for the light plugs into the bottom of that, so it's really just one long cord for each light.<br>

When it comes to buying "packages", I would put together specifically what you want on their site, because they give you the same accessory discounts whether you order one of their packages or make up your own.<br>

I also have one of their folding softboxes, and it's super easy to set up. Do keep in mind that their softboxes are silver lined, so they'll give a slightly more crisp look than a white-lined box. Photoflex boxes have a White Lightning/Bees speedring available of you buy their brand.</p>

[clark_king4]

What are the available power settings on the AB units and in what steps?

[chad_hoelzel1]

<p>I know I'll get flamed due to the postponement of release but if you're not in a rush I'd wait for the einsteins when Paul Buff releases them. If you look at what they do, they are well worth the wait.<br>

http://www.paulcbuff.com/pcb2009/einstein.html</p>

 

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>Clark, regarding the power settings, the Bees and White Lightnings have slider switches, so you can set them anywhere you want. If you go to their website and click on the link for any of their lights, you'll see a blue box that says "Product Manual", and you can see what the back of it looks like where all the controls are--there's a picture in the manual.<br>

As far as the Einsteins are concerned, I agree that they could be very cool if they ever actually materialize, but I waited for nearly a year (they were originally called AB Max) and they've been delayed and delayed. They also won't have the metal housing of the White Lightnings, and I'm one of those people who hesitates to buy something when it hasn't been tried yet (like the first year a new model car is out). That having been said though, Buff has stellar customer service! And they will also answer any and all questions you have about their lights, by the way. I asked tons of questions before I got mine.<br>

Oh, and they have something like a 60-day money back guarantee, so you can try them without worry.</p>

[Two23]

<p>I am VERY tough on photo gear and usually destroy at least one lens or camera every year. I have both W.L. X3200 and B1600 monolights and have used them side by side. I am stricktly an outdoor photographer, usually photo'ing in Dakota blizzards and other harsh weather. The B1600 units hold up very well, at least as well as the White Lightnings. They are more compact and take less space, and put less weight up on the pole. If it were me, I'd would buy the B1600 units now and then trade them in for full credit when the new Einstein lights come out. I have actually preordered a pair myself. </p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

<p> </p>

[clark_king4]

<p>Matt i am planning on shooting portraits with these lights. </p>

[hjoseph7]

"The B1600 units hold up very well, at least as well as the White Lightnings. They are more compact and take less space, and put less weight up on the pole."

 

This is the exact same reasons I went for the B1600 instead of the While Lightning X1600. I felt they would fit more comfortably on a boom, or hanging from the ceiling. I was a little dissapointed at the space-age plastic cover that is supposed to be bullet-proof of the B1600 though. I was expecting something more robust, but they look like regular plastic to me. Oh well, time and a few drops will tell.

[Two23]

<p>Harry--</p>

<p>I've had a B1600 get blown over several times by the up to 60 mph winds I deal with here. So far no damage. I think the lights are so light they don't have a lot of force when they hit. I also suspect the plastic absorbs some of the blow. Someday it might break, but I think if the housing was solid aluminum the force of the blow would be transfered to the electronics inside and cause a bigger repair bill. They charge $40 to replace a plastic cover. <br>

Kent in SD</p>

 

[clark_king4]

<p>Both indoor (studio) and outdoor or location...</p>

[clark_king4]

<p>If i have ab's can i still use my speedlights and make them all trigger wirelessly? Will the canon speedlights work with triggers that the paul buff sells?<br>

thank you!</p>

[Two23]

<p>The Canon strobes will work with CyberSyncs, but only in manual mode. I often use a mix of monolights and Nikon SB-28 flash myself.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

Kent, I believe I read somewhere (or was told by Buff customer service at some point) that they will not do a credit to change from Bees to Einsteins. It would be good to check with customer service though if you're thinking of doing that, Clark.

As far as the B1600 vs. X1600 goes, it's good to hear that the Bees are durable. In that case, I'd say that the advantages of the WL over the Bees are the bigger modeling light and the 1/4 power switch, which in my case is why I got the WL over the Bees, because I'm often using them in a small space to shoot food, and they power down alot further for that.

Either way, you'll have a good set of lights and great customer service!

[clark_king4]

Please give me your opinions of the white lightening and AB packages available at paul buff website. It seems a slightly better deal to get started with the packages. I noticed that they come with some modifiers so that's good. But is there anything else I would need to get going after i purchase one of the packages?

[jimw]

<p>I have 2-AB800's and 1 - AB1600 which I use for portraits in a small studio. They are fine because of the slider controls you can dial the lighting in as needed. I put together my own package and was able to get the items I needed at a very reasonable price. I also can not say enough concerning Paul C Buff. I bought a Vagabond Battery system to use outdoors. I needed it for a shoot last October, there was a problem with the charging system. They not only repaired it free of charge (Under Warranty) but turned it around in 4 days.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Indeed, you can buy any stands, modifier, etc., that you want at the time you order lights from them, and you'll get the discount regardless. You can see how it works by just adding lights to your shopping card there, and then as you add accessory items, you'll see the discount amount in your cart. If you're going to buy anything besides lights from Buff, buy them <em>when</em> you buy lights if you can - it's cash in your pocket from a company that's already offering great deals on their gear.</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>Clark, if you read this page, it will explain that you can build your own package and get the same discounts as they give you for their packages. As Matt mentioned, you should buy all of the accessories you want (or what you can afford, of course) at the same time as you buy your lights, because that's when you get the discount. You get 5% off accessories when you buy one light, 10% when you buy two, 15% when you buy three, etc.<br>

<a href="http://www.alienbees.com/packages.html">http://www.alienbees.com/packages.html</a></p>

[Two23]

<p>Paul Buff himself responded to a post on another lighting forum on March 16. He said there is a 60 day no questions asked satisfaction guaranteed on all their products. He said that period will be extended until you receive your Einstein light if you preordered one at the same time you order an Alien Bee. He was very clear about that. He said you will pay the return shipping on the ALien Bee, and it must be returned within two weeks of receiving your new light. Ask their phone rep for confirmation. Really, this is a no-brainer.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<p>Both WL and AB's are excellent. I use them both for different reasons. I will use an AB on a boom and a WL for my 5 and 7' octoboxes. I prefer my AB800 when traveling and for outdoors evening shooting. In doors I prefer the WL x1600 in 1/4 power mode and the ability to adjust the modeling light to max although flash power is on very low. AB only have one slide for both modeling light and power WL's have two seperate sliders. I have dropped both they are both strong. AB's use a 1/8 in mini plug which is less reliable than the 1/4" plug on the WL's.</p>

[frolickingbits]

<p>I'd say go with the Lightnings, and skip on the Buff accessories-I have three White Lightnings (don't like them much, but that's a different story), as well as a few buff stands and softboxes, and compared to the Avenger stands and Photoflex softboxes I have, the Buff equipment is junk, and not really much cheaper. So for what it's worth, I would say get the lights from Buff, then buy Avenger stands and Photoflex softboxes from B&H.</p>

[ansel_ho]

<p>Well, I use AB for year together with two SB900 and Pocket Wizard, it works very well. However, I don't really like the accessories from AB coz the poor quality (like a China made cheap plastic). So, you may order it from other brands and it's ok though. White Lightning is top of the line from Paul Buff, so..you may consider it.</p>

[jim hancock]

<p>Here is the beauty of Alien Bees, I've been behind the lens for 26 years now, I shot Normans and Speedos for years, then I got my hands on Alien Bees. While amoung the pro's some smirked at the bees.... (I do hate the name and pull the stickers off, and get only black) but if you pick up a norman head, and then pick up an Alien Bee head they weigh about the same, difference being, the Norman requires a boat anchor power pack, and the Bee is self contained! So you can stick them on a boom, or whatever and the weight is no problem, and they are very efficient......I rarely break out the Norman's anymore unless I need a tri-light or something...... I go with the Alien Bees because they are lighter, cheaper, hell they are almost disposable, when you consider a flashcube for a norman cost more then a whole Alien Bee, the White Lightnings are too heavy.<br>

Jim Hancock http://www.jimhancockproductions.com</p>