Craigslist and the wedding photography industry?

[bryan_lardizabal]

<p>YGWYPF - especially on Craigs... ;)</p>

[scrivyscriv]

<p>One of the tools I use that sets me apart from a CL or just "cheap" photographer is time spent with the affianced couple.<br>

I think it goes without saying that the better you know the couple, the happier they are with the images, because you knew what they wanted and had a good idea of their individual personalities - before you got to the site.<br>

Many of my weddings are booked with friends and referrals from friends. Facebook, if you're well-integrated with it, will yield a lot of invaluable marketing, just by your couples posting wedding pictures and referencing you... Anyway, the social circles that see my images online after an event are generally connected, or once removed, from me, and I have a general idea of who they are and what they life.<br>

If I don't know them very well when we meet, I ask for more time before the wedding. And strongly encourage engagement pictures.<br>

Just a few thoughts.</p>

[guy_e]

<p>The comment about an amateur showing all of their work, and the professional showing only their best, doesn't always ring true. I remember our wedding back in 2002... our photographer, who was still shooting with medium format at the time, took roughly two - three shots of each group during the formals - that I remember specifically. Throughout the wedding, I don't know what his firing rate was, but I do remember receiving a very thick box of proofs a few months later, with every single picture he took. There was not one throwaway in the entire box. Sure, there was the occasional wandering eye not looking directly at the camera, or blink, but all in all, every picture was framed, exposed, and captured very well.</p>

<p>I will say that now that digital has more or less replaced film, the temptation to go with a machine-gun style approach to photography at events like weddings (aka, the "spray and pray" method), is very real, and I suspect that this is how these CL shooters are able to stay "in business" so to speak. I wonder what the value would be for the pros out there to perhaps go to a wedding as a second shooter one time, shoot exactly this style, and then put together a book with every single photo taken... then, show this side-by-side with their best album work to the B&G during the initial meeting to illustrate why the CL shooters are not worth their weight in salt.</p>

[Sunset-Lounge]

<p>you're right, people are still getting married. So I'd say the problem is not with the market or a lack of a market. So, then what to do? Looking else where I'd say give your marketing efforts a good, honest review. Apparently what you're doing is not working. Look at what other approaches are available and at what others in your business are doing.</p>

[nathangardner]

<p>you get what you pay for, everyone, including Brides should know this. I guess it just means you have to do the best you can to make people want to pay the extra dough.</p>

[serge_kakorin]

<p>Brian, why do you worry about CL, since this is your side business? I assume you'll do well even if you won't get any bookings this year? If not, then you should start looking at CL as a tool. Also you should have a solid marketing plan. Where do you see your business in three years. I see mine well outside of CL world and in higher end of the client's buying power. For the time being, I use CL as traffic driver to my site, besides some other things.<br>

Robert Barkley, good picture is the one that makes you stop and look, causing you to react to what you see in some way. If it is good documentary or photojournalist photographer's picture, it'll tell the story by itself without you having to explain anything. If it is fine art photographer's photo, it'll pull you inside, and you'll drown in it.<br>

I remember old studio photos, made with large format (in most cases 8x10 inch) camera. When I compare them with anything I shot with my Zenit, they looked shockingly different. When I scan them now, I get 100MB file of astounding quality, as opposed to my 35mm photographs.<br>

Do you sense the difference?</p>

[Sunset-Lounge]

<p>a thing to keep in mind is you are selling more than your time and their prints. you are selling the confidence that you can at least meet if not exceed their expectations. if they don't value or sense or need the confidence, then they're looking at price per print.</p>

[juanita_ramirez]

<p>Mr Winberry</p>

<p>Do you really get what you pay for in the wedding photo industry? Is there some requirement that the novice of novices can't get a nice website, slap together a portfolio of second shooter prints, and charge 10% above market rate? No. So the bride and groom, and anyone else purchasing a photographer should look at portfolio. They should look at the blog. That's where the second-tier images go. The third tier images are the rest of what they'll get from their photographer. </p>

<p>Before I joined PN I figured all of these guys (on here) who talked a big game about being the best in the wedding photography market and charging high prices would have great portfolios. Boy was I surprised. Most of them don't even know how to focus. If you ignore the best of the best selections on their websites and check out their blogs, you'll be floored at how bad expensive photography can be.</p>

<p>You may get what you pay for, you may get a lot less.</p>

[unangelino]

<blockquote>

<p>And here I am thinking, "That's exactly what a used car salesman does." I sure hope this is an exception and not representative of what the wedding photography industry has come down to.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>That's not marketing; that's closing.</p>

<p>It doesn't matter if it's a used car or a wedding photographer: Everyone does it because saying, "Excuse me bride and groom, would you mind opening your wallet and handing me some cash?" sounds predatory. Those who don't use an artful substitute will stand helpless as business walks away.</p>

<p>I have consulted to dozens of small business people over the years. In addition to evaluating their ongoing marketing efforts, I always insist on watching them close. The successful ones all have a closing tactic. I'll admit that some of those tactics make me cringe, but my clients have come to believe that what they do and say <em>works</em> . So, unless I know of something that will work better, I try and accept my own <em>cringe factor</em> as an unpleasant necessity.</p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>Ms. Ramirez most cameras (lens) have automatic focus, which I rely on quite often because of failing eye sight, it comes with age for most people. The above is especially true with moving subjects. If the couple is happy with the images for the price they paid, who am I to say they are wrong. I love my Jeep as much as any person may like their Porsche;-) Good thing that I have a nice paying job as more and more people are using pro DSLRs and doing part time photography. That is the nature of the beast concerning digital, film was much more difficult to master.</p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>The closing is the most important part of selling, also the most difficult for people to master, a long long time ago I was used to be a used car salesman, did very well. If you want to sell, you are selling your talents, you have to ask for them to pay and reserve the date.</p>

[hugh_j.]

<blockquote>

<p>It doesn't matter if it's a used car or a wedding photographer: Everyone does it because saying, "Excuse me bride and groom, would you mind opening your wallet and handing me some cash?" sounds predatory. Those who don't use an artful substitute will stand helpless as business walks away.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Everyone does it? Not the studios that contract me, that I'm aware of anyway, and I'm often present for client consultations. And what you call "artful" (lol) I call downright deceitful. A fine line separates the two. Frankly, if a photographer has to resort to such tactics to close a sale, then the product must suck, or the personality must stink. Couples know a winner when they see it. Of course, photographers who are so bad at this that they have to resort to such slimeball tactics probably have never seen a couple react to a "this is the one" moment.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>So, unless I know of something that will work better, I try and accept my own <em>cringe factor</em> as an unpleasant necessity.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good for you. Personally, I would just find another profession if I had to devolve into pond scum in order to be "successful." Being able to sleep at night is nice.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>Not the studios that contract me,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Can you name some examples. Maybe point to your web site so we can see what is obviously so much better than "pond scum" work.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>All arguments and justifications aside, my question would be ... is it a good policy to fib about potential availability?</p>

<p>Should a honest working relationship with a client begin with such divisiveness?</p>

<p>I would think that either a client wants what you do, and is willing to pay for it ... or they do not. </p>

<p>If they are on the fence, are there not other ways to tip them your way other than making something up?</p>

<p>BTW, this is a pretty public site ... is it wise to reveal such "used car salesmen" techniques here?</p>

<p> </p>

[jim_douglas1]

<p>One sales technique I've used successfully is to have a friend or colleague call my cell phone when I'm on a customer meeting. I'll answer and act as if it's a celebrity on the line looking to book me for the same date as the bride I'm meeting with. "Certainly Mr Cruise, I'm available that day to shoot your function", or "Of course, you can tell President Obama and the first lady that I would be honored to photograph the gala". <br>

This usually creates a great sense of urgency with my prospects, and they usually end up booking me right on the spot.</p>

[neilambrose]

<p>All these so called 'sales techniques' make me feel pretty embarrassed. Is that really how a lot of people get their clients?</p>

<p>I get mine by showing them my work and having a nice chat. Don't know about anyone else, but I've always been in a relationship-based business, where mutual trust, respect and understanding are paramount. I've always taken the view that if you don't treat people like they're stupid, they won't assume the same of you.</p>

[juanita_ramirez]

<p>I don't advocate telling clients that someone else wants their date (unless someone actually does.)</p>

<p>On my website (on the pricing page--gasp--I post pricing) I do use the phrase "Now booking summer/fall 2010" and the day I added that, I started to see more people make inquiries. It was a call to action.</p>

<p>That said, I do tell people that dates are booking fast (totally true) and that if they don't let me know of their intent to book, I will not notify them before I sell that date. I don't think this is sneaky at all, and it helps me to get the brides who really love my work. The lukewarm brides who asked about a date, but weren't proactive in contacting me get their date sold out from under them. I want to work with people who love my work.</p>

<p>So I don't advocate telling them someone else has their date (unless they do) but I don't hesitate to say things like Saturdays in June are booking fast--because that's the truth.</p>

[Sunset-Lounge]

<p>I've recently been giving thought to having a friend call me during a client presentation. My thinking is I'll pretend he's a famous photographer calling from the grave to commend me on my work. <br>

After that I would have the friend call again but this time I would pretend he's a famous religious figure calling from the grave to commend me on my ethics.<br>

To complete the rouse a third call may be necessary, but I will need to determine that on the fly, using a predetermined code to alert my cohort if need be. Perhaps this call would entail a deceased celebrity?<br>

Of course, none of this pertains to the original post, but apparently that is not important.</p>

[juanita_ramirez]

<p>Well, the original post asks about strategies for how to book, in light of the existence of CL. Granted, Mr. Douglas had a funny post suggesting a clearly preposterous circumstance to illustrate how creating a sense of urgency in brides can go too far. I don't think we're nearly as far off track as you might think. Further, I just barely posted what I thought were relevant strategies for booking brides. I was in a lower price bracket a couple of years ago, and those strategies helped me to keep business moving along. </p>

[mike_hollander]

<p>Brian Cesario:<br>

<em>"I have a solid portfolio, a good website, [...]"</em></p>

<p>I found your website by googling. I know you did not ask for criticisms of your website and it's probably not the problem with your business, but I think your site could use some help. It looks as if not much thought was given to the graphic design, and it's guilty of some web design no-nos, such as the FAQ and other texts being in embedded clunky Scribd windows, when they could just as well be regular, readable web pages. Add links to PDF versions that people can print, if that's needed. The photos in the 'Nature' gallery are snapshots that don't seem to have much to do with your business and I think take away from the impression of professionality.</p>

<p>Sorry if I'm putting my two cents where they don't belong.</p>

[unangelino]

<p>The point is that it is a fine line. It's always better to be artful than crude: Don't you agree?</p>

<p><strong>Pond Scum? Hmmm...artful or crude?</strong></p>

<p>The ability to close in no way denigrates (or verifies) the quality of the work. The fact is that some professionals are weak at closing and need help with it. Every working pro has a technique that they believe works for them.</p>

<p>By the way, there's a difference between working with studios and working with bride & grooms to be: Studios are very likely to understand the entire process and its challenges while consumers generally speak the language of perceived value. Even still; the bigger the deal the more likely a good closer will get it. But once you have the deal, you better be able to deliver the goods.</p>

 

[mark_t5]

<p>I think if you have to lie to the clients with the "hey there is another couple looking at the same date so you better book with me now" line then it probably means you are charging too much for the quality that you are producing.</p>

<p>but that is just my opinion.</p>

[greenlander]

<p>Financial Darwinism:<br>

"The economy blah blah blah" "blah blah blah this economy" We are all familiar with the term of darwinism, and it's happening in the fiscal world now too. Yes this economy sucks... but right now a lot of people aren't adapting to survive. Times are changing, guess what the digital revolution happened. A lot of these "old hat" photography companies are slowly being out (the ones refusing to adapt anywho) I'm not here to offer a solution, I don't think i'm wise enough to offer anyone such advice. But i know for myself I have changed to fit the world around me and the kind of clients I want to bring in with the kind of money I want to pay. Take a good look at what you think you need in the context of the world right now. It's true the quickest way to learn is to hear from those who have gone the path before you, but sometimes new trails need to be blazed.<br>

Be strong :)</p>

[picturesque]

<p>There are too many variables for anyone to tell you, Brian, how to get your bookings up. Markets vary by location and situation, as well as where you are in your career as a wedding photographer. There is no way anyone who didn't already have an in depth knowledge of you and your situation, could tell you what to do.</p>

<p>I do know that it helps me to think about the most basic idea behind the buy and sell process--the idea that a buyer does not buy unless he or she thinks he is getting his money's worth (value). So a seller, if not selling on price alone, must give the buyer a very good reason(s) to spend the money. If you aren't getting bookings, ask yourself whether you are giving prospects a good reason to hire you, over and above price, and then take steps to provide that reason.</p>

<p>Maybe the problem is communication. If you have a good reason, maybe you aren't communicating that reason. Take steps to remedy that. In previous threads, Marc Williams has suggested that instead of sending the usual e-mail back to prospects, you send a document meant to help <strong>them</strong>--give them a reason to both remember you and respond back.</p>

<p>So--do you have a good reason(s) for a bride to hire you above the cheapest Craigslist photographer? If you do, are you getting that message to the prospect?</p>

[hugh_j.]

<blockquote>

<p>Can you name some examples. Maybe point to your web site so we can see what is obviously so much better than "pond scum" work.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>With all due respect, sorry, but no. My identity has been hijacked online before and it was a complete crapfest to clean the mess up. Suffice it to say that I work for some of the biggest newspapers in the Los Angeles area and I also subcontract as a photojournalism specialist for several high end studios here.</p>

<p>As far as "pond scum" goes, I guess you have to ask yourself the question: if a friend asked you to shoot their wedding and you had to turn it down, would you refer him/her to one of these "photographers" who are all set to have a partner call them on their cell phone during a consultation to "create a sense of urgency?"</p>

<p>I sure wouldn't. But that's me and the way I view friendships and business relationships. YMMV.</p>