is it safe to convert a polaroid land to 4 by 5?

[justin_lowenthal]

I bought a polaroid land 150 at the thrift store about a week ago. I originaly had the idea that I would convert it to 120 film. But after looking around the internet and seeing what people have done (especially with the 110b's) I decided that 4 by 5 would be the thing.

 

I think I have a good idea how to do it. I am a sheet metal worker and aircraft mechanic by trade. I have access to almost any tool imaginable, and could make most of the parts from scratch.

 

While I was researching I ran into some older Pn threads concerning Mr. Littman and his "patents". I also noticed that nobody has said much about him in a few years. What happened is he still around? If I convert one of these things and use it in public will the secret police come and take me away for patent violation? Will his team of cracker jack lawers find me? Or worst of all will he fill my inbox with harrasing rants?

 

Really reading those old threads was great entertainment (I don't get out much) and I just wanted to know how the story ended up. Sorry if I shouldn't be stirring the pot... But my curiosity has the best of me.

[bob_sunley]

<p>You can build any patented item for personal use, just don't plan on selling them.</p>

 

[leicaglow]

<p>Justin, There are a lot of people converting these to 4x5 and selling them for big bucks. Wish I could remember all the builders, but certainly one of the coolest is William Littman, who used to hang out here occasionally. Check out fleabay too. There are people who've converted them and reselling them there as well. I believe William's patents revolved around his lens standard technology, keeping the film plane parallel to the lens plane. If you just converted a regular Polaroid camera, I doubt you'd run into problems. William is a great guy, and absolutely fanatical about his cameras, as he should be. They are gorgeous. Angelina Jolie bought a Littman for her hubby, Brad Pitt. Maybe you can look around William's site (or even write him?) and find out what his patents are for.</p>

[tom_aellis1]

<p>You cannot patent a mod. Period. Each mod is unique in it's own design. Your fine.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Adapting an old Polaroid for 4x5 usage has been done for 1/2 century now. It is like asking if it is possible to use a Briggs and Stratton engine on a gocart or mini bike; or is it possible to to play Hockey in Canada; or does Home Depot carry Plywood' or is it possible to use an enlarging lens on a camera; or if it is OK to used Tri-x in a camera to shoot a photo. Newcomers might think these things are dicey. What is weird to me is that is converting an old junk camera or mower engine was not a big deal 50 years ago; it was because folks experimented more. </p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>The reason some folks converted a junk polaroid decades ago was because we could not afford a used Chrown or Speed Graphic.</p>

[paul_wheatland]

<p>Ever since the industrial age (and long before) clever people have modified products and behavior to suit their needs. Roll film Polaroids have superb build quality and lend themselves nicely to 120 film conversion as well as 4x5 sheet film use. My goal if I were to pursue it would be to adapt a 4x5 Graphlock (International) back to your camera. This would allow multi format use to this wonderful camera. Your expertise in metal working should be a "walk in the park".</p>

[tom_aellis1]

<p>By the way, I have the Pola 150 and of course there is no more "roll" film for it, when you get it down pat, I'd like to have you convert it to a 4x5 if you would. I can't afford the others on the market.</p>

[justin_lowenthal]

Well if you read this older Photo.net thread (it is long and drawn out) you will see that there is alot of intrigue surounding the litman polaroids and his patent. He seems very set on harrasing everyone who attempts to convert a polaroid.

 

anyway it is interesting reading

 

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00D4gM

[frank_bunnik]

<p>Check out this for a much better conversion than Mr Littman can ever hope to offer and from a much nicer person than mr Littman can ever hope to be:<br>

<a href="http://salihonbashome.blogspot.com/2009/10/byron-camera-conversion-service-going.html">http://salihonbashome.blogspot.com/2009/10/byron-camera-conversion-service-going.html</a><br>

Mr Littman makes a nice camera but it is hopelessly overpriced for what it is. A razzle or any other conversion offers the same thing for less than half the price of a Littman.<br>

That Angelina Jolie bought one for Brad Pitt does not make it a super camera. Mr Littman posts under various names in discussions about his camera. None of his posts do him any favour. All of them, thus without any exception, are absolute bollocks! When you look at his advertisements on ebay, it is obvious that to him it is more important who uses his cameras or in one occasion even the fact that Marlene Dietrich was the grandmother of the user of a Littman camera (as if that makes the guy a good photographer) than the camera itself or the results it produces.<br>

Check out this discussion too for a good laugh:<br>

<a href="http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=44656">http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=44656</a></p>

[tom_aellis1]

<p>Again, despite what Littman says, a MOD is NOT a patent infridgement. Not one bit. I assure you that no court in the U.S. (I do not know of laws outside the U.S., so can't speak to them) is even hear the case. I doubt if any lawyer would take the case as well unless they are simply looking to milk their client. You nor anyone else that would like to mod a Pola 150, a 110a or 110b, a holga etc., have anything to worry about. Perhaps a nasty, bully email or two with empty threats.<br>

If your serious about doing the Mod go ahead. And if you wish to sell your mods to others you will have every legal right to do so.<br>

If Mr. Littman wishes to debate me on this, via phone conf. I'd be more then glad to have such a professional conversation.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>What I would like to see is a review of the Littman camera and the guy down under's camera too; to explain the operation of each.</p>

 

[justin_lowenthal]

Tom, I am not in business converting or making cameras. I have built a few odds and ends wooden pinhole cameras and the like, but I don't know about doing a conversion for someone.

 

It will probably be a few weeks before I finish this thing, as I don't have a graflock back yet(am shoping the bay for that now). Anyway after I finish mine if it turns out well perhaps we can talk about yours.

 

After looking at all the mods out there, I have decided that I'm going to buy a real lens and shutter for this 150, (maybe a kodak ektar attached to a junker graflex camera) and replace the front standard with a.new one either made of aluminum or carbon fiber so that I can mount the new lens easily. I will fabricate the spacer that the graflock back sits on from metal (not use a cut up polaroid pack holder)...and if I am feeling really energetic I may try to make the front standard have a couple of screws for adjusting it to remain paralell to the back (or tilted a few degrees on purpose).I am not going to worry about adjusting paralex I have shot rangefinders enough to be comfortable adjusting for.that in my head. Anyway I hope it turns out well. We will see

[razzledog]

<p>Being at the heart of the furore, I feel more than qualified to shed some light on this...I guess what tickles me the most is Michael's comment : 'Wish I could remember all the builders, but certainly one of the coolest is William Littman' ....<br /> 'Cool' could never be considered a trait .<br /> Truth is, nine years on, I've had to all but give up my day job to satisfy the demand for the Razzle. At best I'm still nearly a year behind....and may risk becoming swamped, now that's what I call really COOL!<br /> <br /> I'd say go ahead and make your own hand held 4x5!<br /> <br /> Thanks guys.</p><div></div>

[User_503771]

<p>If it'll ease your mind any, I'm available (for a nominal fee) to impersonate a member of the Secret Police. Just let me know when you finish your Polaroid mod, and I'll be happy to show up about 4-5 hours after you fall into deep, rapid-eye-movement sleep, and pound on your door.</p>

<p>After that, I will make some furious but curiously indecisive attempts to confiscate your camera (all the while never once trespassing), fail in doing so, give up and then run away.</p>

<p>But seriously, I hope you post what you do with the camera and how you did it.</p>

[razzledog]

<p>I already checked it out with Australian Patent lawyers...Tom has it right in one.<br>

Michael, you're a funny guy...think I've heard about this kind of behaviour somewhere before.</p>

[razzledog]

<p>Frank, you are correct..he IS a nice guy, we talk often, that's the way it's supposed to be. We all work together, though apart, each of us offering our own version of the conversion, that way everyone benefits. There's no room for threats and BS. It's a shame that some knumbnut wants to grab the limelight all for themselves and in a vain attempt to patent the idea proceeds to circumvent any progress in the hand held 4x5 arena.</p>

<p> </p>

[frank_bunnik]

<p>Dean, one day I do hope to own a Razzle (British racing green would be cool, maybe with the number 45 in black in a white circle).</p>

[tom_aellis1]

<p>Kelly, while not a review, you can find videos on youtube. Enjoy</p>

[mikel r.]

<p>Just watched Dean on youtube. Good stuff but now I want one. Well, I will have to start saving.</p>

[tom_aellis1]

<p>BTW, check out Randy's work at holgamods.com<br>

Don't forget to check out his handmade, VERY reasonable 4x5 pinholes.<br>

A mod is nothing to worry about. I can "Mod" any single camera I wish and I'm safe. They boys at apple chalanged this with the company that was making the iMod which is the Apple Laptop, sent in and modded as a Tablet. Dang good from what I understand.<br>

Go get 'em.<br>

T</p>

[tom_aellis1]

<p>Oh, by the way. Right now I'm having a Polaroid 600SE modded by an engineer to accept via a Graphfloc Back a 4x5 with Ground Glass accepting a standard Lisco or Fidelity 4x5 double sheet holder. Simply amazing. I can and May sell them as these are in uber-ultra high demand. (the camera in itself is a marvel) No I can shoot, with this one Range Finder, Large Format camera body, Instant 4x5 and/or 3 1/4" Fuji FP films, 6x6,6x7 and 6x9 with the Mamiya Roll film back and 4x5 Sheet film. The 3 lenses covers all with a 97 pct crop on the 4x5 sheet.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>If Deans cameras are made down under does this effect how one loads the film holders? </p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>If Deans cameras are made down under does this effect how one loads the film holders?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I don't know but if you convert one in the UK, make sure it's 5x4, not 4x5! (and to be pedantic, it's affect, not effect).</p>

[rdm]

<blockquote>

<p>If Deans cameras are made down under does this effect how one loads the film holders?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes Kelly , i think with the double dark film holders you have to flip it and use the second side before the first. But its an easy conversion , just flip it around again when you using it in the southern hemisphere. Oh, also when your using it down there be careful; watch out for all those people driving on the wrong side of the rode.</p>