Travel images required for website in return for publicity and links

[di-yena]

<p>Joe Bloggs would pay for a teaching course in photography though (Well I would, even though I'm not called Joe)</p>

[yusav_gherigson]

I think a much better approach would have been...

We are starting up a travel business and would like to acquire the rights to some travel images to use. We

are willing to pay $x per photo and are looking for y number of photos at width x height resolution. Any

takers?

And I still think you could rephrase your original post and get a positive response...

[riley_s1]

<p>@Diana, yeah, that's true, but that's not what we're offering here. You or I helping someone figure out why his/her flash photos look not quite right, say, is just one piece of advice - I really find it hard to believe that Joe is going to go out, fork over a couple hundred bucks to sign up for a class, just to figure out that his flash doesn't sync at 1/500, or whatever. I don't think anyone here pretends to offer anywhere near the quality of instruction or depth of knowledge one could get from a photo class. I get what you're saying, but I don't think that in practical terms the two things are equal.<br /> (and I would also like to point out that I don't think anyone should be stopped from giving away their photos - I'm just hoping that people might realize it's just not good for everyone who's trying to make a living with their pictures.)</p>

[oofoto]

<p>OK sign me up. I'm in Glasgow tomorrow then Newcastle and Birmingham next week with a little bit of Chester in between. Would you like summer or winter images? Wales at the weekends too. Is it OK if my kids are in the pics? I'll sign a release for them.<br>

So which areas of the UK do yo need? </p>

[sasvata__shash__chatterjee]

<p>If not here, where photographers hang out, where would one ask this question? It is a valid question, whether you agree with the premise or not. It seems there are takers for the offer too. If you don't agree, a simple and polite "no, I don't agree with this" would suffice, a lot of the vitriol is simply unnecessary. None of us speaks for ALL photographers, professional or otherwise.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Even if you're an amateur, PLEASE charge something for your work! Also remember that whatever you charge is what we have to charge, because we professionals are in competition with you, whether you think so or not.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I am not picking a fight, but I had to think about this one. Those of us that are not professional photographers, presumably have other means of earning a living that allows us to afford the required time and gear. To me at least, what I do photographically is most definitely not "work", although I understand the use of that word. To me it is "pleasure" and "creativity", and surely one way I might use the end product is to help guarantee a living for professional photographers. But, should that be our overriding concern? Allowing a just starting travel business to succeed and make money for an entrepreneur might also be very satisfying in its own right, even without publicity and acknowledgment. In your argument, change "photo business" to simply "business" and we have reason to help Tanya.</p>

[peterq]

<p>I don't understand the hostile and/or indignant reactions.<br>

If you don't like the question or the idea, just don't answer the question.<br>

If you think the question is unfair or illegal, just put that in your reply.<br>

Others can decide for themselves what to do, I think.<br>

I'm not interested and I have no opinion about this question after reading.<br>

Cheers.</p>

[di-yena]

<blockquote>

<p>OK sign me up. I'm in Glasgow tomorrow then Newcastle and Birmingham next week with a little bit of Chester in between. Would you like summer or winter images? Wales at the weekends too. Is it OK if my kids are in the pics? I'll sign a release for them.<br />So which areas of the UK do yo need?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You really should have thought that post through more Paul. If she says 'Birmingham summer images' it means you'll have to stay there far longer than you'd want to! ;-)</p>

[oofoto]

<p>Diana, mmm I know what you mean but then I can't see it being high on the tourist list esp looking at the prospective client origin...</p>

[photoprospect]

<p>@<a href="../photodb/user?user_id=3728023">Sarah Fox</a> ,</p>

<p>It's true that nowdays anyone can pick up a digital camera and snap some photos, but "professional" - besides charging for your work - also bears a connotation of being superior to amateur.</p>

<p>I'm talking about images of more exotic and varied locations than what amateurs can provide, more angles of the same place, better light and cropping, better angle, better post-processing - resulting in better impact. Of course, professional photographer should have some marketing strategy, should cater for specific audiences (which amateurs never do) and have his/her images arranged to be easy to find (search engine optimization, excellent keywording) and purchase (pricing, payment options). That's what differentiates between professional and amateur photographers IMO. Oh, and don't forget to keep the passion that brought you into this profession in the first place - if you lose it, you lose all your advantage.</p>

<p>If you can't differentiate yourself enough, then you need to improve either one or both your artistic and business sides of photography. Of course you can sell your images on micro-stock sites, but there aren't many people who can earn their living entirely from micro-stock.</p>

<p>Sarah, from the little I saw you seem a very capable photographer and shouldn't be afraid of amateurs stealing your clients. You must understand that you're playing in a different league. After all, Bentley won't complain if someone decides to give away some cheap cars, won't they? Why? Because people who drive cheap cars are not their potential clients. Same here - people not willing to pay for images are not your potential customers, and even if they are forced to pay they'll choose the cheapest option which will usually be some beginning pro, i.e. the same amateur that instead of giving his photos away now tries to make some money with his hobby.</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

Jean</p>

 

[sarah_fox]

<p>Jean, I'd like to think I've amassed enough experience and technique, not to mention collecting some very nice gear and coming to the table with a bit of talent from the start, to stand out to the consumer. Unfortunately that is not my experience. What matters is the bottom line: How much does it cost? If it's anything greater than zero, people are unwilling to pay, because Paul Marbs will feed them the photos they want for free. Paul doesn't need to be a better photographer than I am. He simply has to be free. All the Pauls of the world are the very reason my business is languishing and the very reason I may eventually be out of business entirely. Many perceive that as perfectly fair.</p>

<p>As I mentioned in another related thread, I'm in the habit of giving a leg up whenever possible to those workers who are suffering for lack of business -- ESPECIALLY when it's no skin off of my back. I am astounded that someone would give away photos to someone for use in a much healthier business, when the consequences to someone of a dying profession have been clearly stated. I plainly and simply would not do something like that to Paul.</p>

<p>I am truly happy for all those people who have the luxury of pursuing photography as a hobby. I'd love to be that well off myself -- to have a healthy, lucrative career that pays my bills and to pursue photography purely for the passion. Unfortunately I do not have that luxury. It's either photography for me, or flipping burgers, and flipping burgers is starting to look attractive.</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>I think I should also elaborate, though, that I think it would be great for Tanya to take her own pictures with her own camera, with her own skills and talent. Power to her! If she finds that she isn't the caliber of photographer she requires, then it would be great if she would hire the services of someone with the experience, skills, talent, and equipment to do the job to her standards, whether that person holds him/herself out as a professional or an amateur.</p>

[broeraad]

<p>Tanya you have opened a nest of worms looking at these comments, please feel free to have a look at<a href="www.touchstonephotography.com "> www.touchstonephotography.com</a> and let me know if there is anything what might help you, just let me know. <br>

We all have to start somewhere and if I can be of help i gladly do so, after all what you give out, comes back.<br>

Regards Aad</p>

[daniel_gaskins]

<p>Hello Tanya,<br>

I'm interested and I live in Europe, making several trips annually in the Benelux area. Contact me.</p>

<p>Daniel Gaskins</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Tanya, you've stated that $150 for stock photos would not be too horrible an expense for your business, but you have now been offered photography for free.</p>

<p>When all is said and done, I think it would be very enlightening to everyone here if you would tell us how much you paid for all of the images that will go on your website. I'm willing to venture a guess that it will be ZERO. I bet you don't even toss a buck and image towards the profession, of which the photographers themselves might earn enough from two downloads to drop two quarters in a machine and buy a Coke.</p>

<p>THAT, folks, is the nature of the problem. How are professional photographers supposed to sell their images in this sort of climate?</p>

[riley_s1]

<blockquote>

<p>THAT, folks, is the nature of the problem. How are professional photographers supposed to sell their images in this sort of climate?</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Exactly. To those of you thinking of giving your photos away for free to Tanya, please think of the consequences of what you're doing. It might just be a couple photos to you, but if everyone keeps doing it, bye-bye professional photographers.</p>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>Tanya, I've emailed you directly. I'm also willing to help in return for links to my e-commerce website. As far as I'm concerned I have no problem helping out. You're showing good business initiative and are willing to return the favour by offering publicity to the donators of the photos. That makes perfect sense to me so best of luck with your venture.</p>

<p>My gallery is <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jackthehat/">here</a> and here's a small selection:</p><div></div>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>next...</p><div></div>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>another...</p><div></div>

[jamie_robertson2]

and another...<div></div>

[jamie_robertson2]

<p>last one (for now)</p><div></div>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>How are professional photographers supposed to sell their images in this sort of climate?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's not her problem. Anyone trying to run a business should look at the market and see what they can do to lower costs. It's not her responsibility to make sure photographers are employed any more than it's my business to make sure plumbers or electricians are employed in the case I find someone qualified who will work for a ridiculously low rate.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>It might just be a couple photos to you, but if everyone keeps doing it, bye-bye professional photographers.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's not her problem. Every time you buy an airline ticket online, you are helping to un-employ travel agents. Has that stopped you?</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Lower costs?! I'm sorry, Jeff, but for any professional photographer to offer a photograph at a lower cost, they would have to pay Tanya for the privilege of having it displayed. That doesn't compute.</p>

 

[jamie_robertson2]

<blockquote>

<p>THAT, folks, is the nature of the problem. How are professional photographers supposed to sell their images in this sort of climate?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Get real my friend. This is not 1995. The world doesn't lie back and pamper those who don't evolve. You would be very naive if you expected every person with a camera to either keep their images for their own use or sell them for a fee. People like myself enjoy photography as a hobby and can't be bothered to try and sell their images. We get enjoyment from seeing them put to use or appreciated by someone. In my case, my own site could benefit from some extra publicity in return.</p>

<p>If you're having a hard time surviving because you can't sell many images in this climate then you've been sitting back and taking it for granted for too long. What did you think would happen when digital took over? Now you don't need to spend money developing and sending off negatives/slides to agencies like you did in the 90's. These days anyone can join a microstock agency and start uploading in minutes with no financial outlay, just a bit of spare time. That's why microstock images are so cheap, because there's millions of images and millions of photographers to keep them stocked up. An image that would have cost a business £200 to use a few years ago now costs pennies.</p>

<p>So, as a pro you have few choices if you want to sell images for good money:</p>

<p>1. Take photos that are exceptionally good, very original and consequently sought after.<br />2. Do weddings (yawn).<br />3. Give it up as a career and try something else.</p>

<p>The same argument probably ensued in the 19th century when photography first emerged. <em>"How is a painter supposed sell pictures in this climate when these photographer guys churn them out by the dozen?"</em></p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>1. Exceptionally good does not matter. Only cost matters. Just look at the $30 stock photo cover of Time Magazine. The photog might have been able to buy lunch at Wendy's. (Woohoo!)<br>

2. Weddings are done for free too.<br>

3. Probably good advice. Thank you.</p>