Auto-focus film body: which one?

[paddy_macmahon1]

<p>My MZ-5n (ZX-5n to some of you) has gone to meet its maker, leaving me with a gap in my system.</p>

<p>I did not often shoot with it, having gone 'back to basics' slightly - I mainly use an MX or a Rolleiflex TLR, and only with black and white film. However I did use the MZ-5n for macro work, making use of its ability to run three flashes with TTL control, and would like to do the same again. Used MZ-5ns seem to command quite a premium, so I'm thinking of a cheaper MZ (ZX) body. My macro lens is a 'K' model and does not have an A setting, so presumably it will be useless with some of the more basic models; by my reckoning that leaves my options as: MZ-3, MZ-6 (ZX-L), MZ-7 or MZ-10. The MZ-3 is more expensive than the MZ-5n, so let's leave that out.</p>

<p>So, given that I will only be doing on-tripod macro work, with dedicated macro lens or extension tubes and reversed lenses, which of the remaining three from my list will give the best value for money? Will they all do TTL flash without lens communication (i.e. is the TTL flash control independent of the lens attached)? Would any one of them give better results than others?</p>

<p>Lastly, do I need an autofocus body at all? Would a Super A (Super Program) control my flashes correctly? The flashes I use are an AF500FTZ and two AF240FTs and various 5P connectors. Bojidar Dimitrov's pages suggest they are only compatible with autofocus bodies, but I'm wondering if that simply means that <strong>full </strong> functionality is only possible with AF bodies.</p>

[stemked]

<p>Naturally I'd first keep my eye out for a ZX-5n/MZ-5n. The MZ-5 would be about the same only it doesn't have sa DOV knob, a deal breaker I think if you do a lot of macro work. However both these cameras have pentaprisms rather than mirrors so you will get a brighter image.<br>

Next level down I'd look at the ZX-l/MZ-6 because it has a DOV device and takes the same release cord (I think) as the digital bodies. The ZX-7/MZ-7 is similar but does not have the DOV lever but uses a shuttle release cord like your MZ-5n. Both cameras have mirrors rather than a pentiprism.<br>

The MZ-10 is basic. Again it lacks a DOV knob, a deal breaker (to me) if you do a lot of macro.<br>

You didn't mention PZ series bodies. Personally I'm not a big fan of this line, mostly because of the size and what I preceive as a busyier layout. But I'm a luddite. I'm sure MANY here would highly suggest looking into a PZ-1 or PZ-1p<br>

I love Super Programs (Super A) bodies. However I've only used classic TTL flashes with them (400T, 200T, 080C). I have a AF500TZ but it is right now 2,500 miles away (I'm on the road). I never tried the combo because I felt it was a no-no.<br>

I just picked this up. You are REVERSING the lens for your macro work. DOV knobs are thus not critical for your work. I'd then look for the MZ/ZX-5. It should be less expensive than the 5n options and has the brighter screen.</p>

[stemked]

<p>Getting back to this since your lens is a non-A lens I wouldn't think you can use any TTL functions, correct? I'd be surprised if you can you it in any way other than manual.</p>

[bethe_fisher]

<p>I used to have a ZX-5 and thought it was very flimsy feeling. Count me as one who likes the PZ-1p. I have an AF400 flash and use it with the PZ-1p and with an old screwmount body. I don't use TTL, so I can't really speak to that, but the flash will fire on each camera. I meter with an incident flash meter and set from that - works well. </p>

[RickW]

<p>I have a PZ-1p, and wish I could use it for digital photography, because it's the best-handling body I've had.<br>

That said... if you're not using AF, it is really hard to beat the Super Program/Super A. I still have the one I bought 25 years ago, and it is still ticking after lots of abuse. The one thing it lacks that you might want for macro shooting is mirror lock-up.<br>

I've seen too many MZ/ZX-5 series cameras lock up and die to find them interesting.<br>

Rick</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>I don't use Pentax autofocus cameras; it just worked out that way; but, I would recommend that if you get a camera which has a specialized battery that you consider getting one of the grip adapters that will let you use AAs. Idea being that as the camera gets older, fewer people will want that type of battery, but the camera is still good; and, so on.</p>

<p>I think there were one or two models that used DX coding only; the camera automatically read the film speed off of the cassette; and, there was no way to type a setting in manually. I would keep an eye out for that feature. You will want to put whatever film in there you want with no fuss. </p>

[paddy_macmahon1]

<p>Thanks for the responses.</p>

<p>Douglas - the depth of field preview is definitely important to me, as I do use a macro lens (SMC Pentax Macro 1:4/100) directly on the body at times, so I guess that restricts my choice.</p>

<p>I had the feeling that the TTL flash control on the MZ-5n did not depend on having 'A' lenses - certainly with my three flash set-up the flashes did not discharge fully each time, or at least that's what I remember. Am I wrong?</p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>If small size is not an issue, the PZ-p is not cheap, but a steal for what it is. You get MLU- often very important for macro work, a DOF preview, great flash range, great handling, can take any style of the Pentax K lenses, and much more.</p>

<p>The only compact model that is almost as good, but having a very high-quality build level is the more expensive MZ-S.</p>

<p>For cheaper, the MZ-6/ZX-L is a good camera. It has a better flash system than the 5n, and can handle the full range of lenses. But it does not have the metering options of the 5n, PZ-1p, and MZ-S.</p>

<p>TTL will work with "M" lenses, as far as I know.</p>

[Mike Gammill]

<p>If not out of budget, the MZ-S is worth looking into. Has a fast 1/6000 second maximum shutter speed and faster X-sync than the ZX-5. Angled top panel of camera is easy to read. This was Pentax's last pro-oriented film SLR.</p>

[stemked]

<p>Paddy,<br>

I guess one can learn something even with film bodies. The only TTL compatible camera that I am aware of that does not require 'A' lenses is the LX.</p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>Doug, I can't verify that statement. When I bought my first TTL capable body, the SF-1n, I already had the flash unit AF 280T which I used on my ME-Super, a non-TTL body, for 8 years. This flash unit can provide TTL operation with a capable body, or its own internal auto function with a non-TTL body like the ME Super.</p>

<p>I bought the TTL capable Pentax SF-1n body with the "F" 50mm f/1.7 lens, which has an "A" setting on the lens ring. That was my ONLY lens having an "A" setting, and my first AF lens! I continued to use my old "M" zoom lenses, but then used TTL operation for the flash with no hitch. I also acquired the more powerful AF 400 FTZ flash, which is TTL ONLY, or manual flash output. No hitch using TTL. The built-in flash also is TTL-only and works fine with old "M" lenses.</p>

<p>Likewise the same story some 7 years later when I bought the PZ-1p, although by that time I had also acquired another AF lens with "A"- the Pentax FA 28mm. But I still shot with my old manual zooms using TTL flash. The owners' manuals for these cameras and flash units do NOT specify that a lens with "A" setting must be used for TTL flash, including the TTL-only built-in fash. What IS specified is that when selecting an aperture, pay attention to the TTL distance range chart, and stay within the given distance for the F stop and ISO setting. I then also got a new AF 500 FTZ, another TTL-only flash, except for its manual output. It had slave functions. Again, only TTL is available for auto flash, but NO restrictions as to "A" lenses, or against "M" lenses are given. Because it is a TTL-only flash for automatically controlled exposure, it cannot be used with a non-TTL capable body unless as a manually-set output flash unit.</p>

<p>It is clear to me that the lack of fully accurate metering capabiliy, including TTL flash, and/ or fully accomodating "M" lenses with use of the lens ring, is a property of Pentax DSLRs and some of the "crippled" MZ/ZX/ist series film bodies.</p>

<p> </p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>I will say I do not recall using flash with "M" lenses on my ZX-L or MZ-S bodies, but these P-TTL capable bodies are also TTL-capable, and do otherwise accomodate and meter fine with "M" lenses. In their handbooks I see no reference restricting flash use with "M" lenses. I believe they'd do fine in that regard, as my PZ-1p has.</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>The ZX-L/MZ-6 is a pretty good substitute, is better in some respects. Viewfinder is a little smaller but seems a little crisper/brighter than MZ-5n. Has a better shutter with 1/4000 (X 1/125), has a backlit top panel LCD. Unlike MZ-5n, it can do Av or M mode with lenses that lack the aperture ring. I am not certain but these bodies may be less susceptible to some of the mechanical issues of the -5n like the -5n's plastic mirror-motor gear. Perhaps someone can verify whether the -6/L has the better metal gear? The ergonomics may more may not be more your style--on the -6/L you can easily adjust exposure comp and shutter without moving your hands much, while on the -5n, exposure comp is less accessible and shutter speed is a little tough to change without moving your hand away from the grip. Also, shutter is fully adjustable in 1/2 EV steps, unlike the 1EV steps of the -5n. You get less control over the metering mode though--while the -5n has a nice 3-position switch, the -6/L generally uses Matrix for KA lenses, and Center-weighted for older lenses, and has spot meter available with AE-L when using P/Tv/Av, but not with manual mode--a bit of a downer.</p>

[paddy_macmahon1]

<p>Thanks again for all the responses. I'm beginning to feel like a bit of an expert on this matter...</p>

<p>Anyway I've come to a 'stop-gap' decision, which I reckon will give me the best 'bang-for-buck' for now: the Z-10 (aka PZ-10). Bodies seem to be available for around the £20 mark here in the UK so I'm going to give one a whirl until such times as I can afford the longer term solution: a Z-1p (aka PZ-1p) or an MZ-S. I'll have to do without depth-of-field preview, mirror pre-fire and a pentaprism for the time-being, but at least I'll be able to control all those flashes!</p>