CFi Macro Planar 120/4

[benjamin_s.1]

<p>Hi folks,<br>

I´ve just compared the MTF diagrammes of the Hasselblad CFi 120/4 and though it seems superb at the macro range (1:5 which might be an object distance of 3...5 feet), it looks really poor at infinity. My question is: up to which distance does the Macro Planar keep its excellent properties and when does it start to fall off? I assume that there is a fluent transition from good to worse without an abrupt change, but maybe someone can give a rule of thumb?<br />Maybe Dr. Fleischer from Zeiss is still around here?<br /><br />Best regards, Benjamin</p>

[kparratt]

<p>Benjamin, my response is not very scientific, but from a user's point of view, the 120 Macro has been one of best ever purchases, and mine is even an early, chrome, non-T* S-Planar.<br>

I have used it extensively for copy work, with careful lighting, and it is truly stunning. Then for years, because I didn't have a 150mm for portraits, I used it there to, outdoors in bright daylight with Pro-shade and again the appropriate mask, the results have been excellent. The MTF diagrams have been the furthest things from my mind. I know the correction has been optimised for close-up work and at f11, and so the 100mm planar for infinity at f11. But I also use the 100 in close-up work and for photographing artwork in the studio.<br>

I don't recall much use of the 120 for very long distant views to infinity because I've had the 100 and the 250, but certainly from f11 to f22 one can use it with confidence.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>I did select the 150 mm over the 120 mm when shooting at long range.<br>

But not for a long time, and no more. I still use the 150 mm. But the 120 as well. You will have to look really very hard to see a difference in performance at infinity. If you willbe able to at all.<br>

I have no qualms about using the 120 mm at infinity. Despite what the curves may suggest, you will not notice anything bad. It is a great lens at any distance.</p>

[jeff.grant]

<p>When I had the 503CW, the 120 CFI was my lense of choice. I used it at infinity often, and was never disappointed by the result. Most of my older images on PN were taken with the 120.</p>

[martin_wouterlood1]

<p>Benjamin...After asking a lot of questions myself on this forum, I have some experiences now that may help you decide...<br>

I did some comparisons 6mths ago shooting the same scene which included small shrubs and trees and desert vegetation to the horizon 10+ km away (same time, aperture/shutter speed, Gitzo 5 series cf tripod and B1G head, mlu, cable) with my 180, 120, 100 cfi and Contax 120 Apo Makro lenses and looking at the transparencies with 5.5 and 15x loupes...<br>

The 180 wasn't really part of the comparison due to its greater enlargement, and the Contax Apo beats them over any distance, but at my level of expertise, I could not convince myself that the infinity-optimised 100 showed any better detail than the 120. No doubt there are others whose technique will show what can be clearly seen in mtf comparisons. Perhaps the slightly enlarged image of the 120 over the 100 negated any differences, and perhaps big enlargements will reveal it.<br>

Digressing a little, I have more recently been comparing the old 120/5.6 S-Planar T* with my 120/4 cfi at very close distances. Again, I cannot see any signs of the significantly better mtf performance on paper of the earlier S lens at f8, image scale 1:5, although I have now developed a preference for the 120/4's nicer background softness wide open, which I use quite a lot. Not very long ago, I received a reply from Dr Hubert Nasse, Senior Scientist, Zeiss Camera Lens Division Laboratory, on the differences between these two 120's that may also be helpful:<br>

"to be honest I am mistrusting the data for the 4/120 a little bit. To publish real measured data is a big advantage of the Zeiss way, but there is the inherent danger that measurement errors are published as well. I have done macro-photography with many samples of the Makro-Planar 4/120, just recently with the 39 Megapixel back, the results are perfect. So I would eally recommend to decide for the younger 4/120. You also have the advantage of a brighter viewfinder image. And the service for the younger lenses is as well more safe."<br>

A search for discussions on the 120 here will show that there are many with much greater expertise than myself, like those above, who are very happy with the results of this lens at distance, despite its soft on-paper infinity mtf curve. You will also come across the statement by Kornelius some years ago that the 120's chromatic correction is better than most other makers' Apo lenses, and to answer your question specifically, he also wrote that the 120 beats the 100 up to approx 1 meter image sides, and for anything larger, the 100 is best. I guess a perfectionist would end up with both.<br>

You can buy it with confidence.</p>

[benjamin_s.1]

<p>I would like to thank all of you for your helpful comments, especially Martin. This shows once more that though MTFs are nice to have, you can´t beat personal experience.<br />Best regards, Benjamin </p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>The MTF charts are misleading - the 120 Makro is sharp at any distance. You can't compare MTF charts between manufacturers, but if the Makro is less sharp at infinity than a CF100, so is every other lens in the world. The Makro shines at close range, and is essential for copying flatwork and documents. However, I don't hesitate to use it for landscapes either.</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>The 120 is stunning at close range, but at infinity, the 150 just edges it out, IMO. To answer your question is difficult because the IQ degrades very slightly as it moves towards infinity. So it's like accepting a particular f/stop--what is acceptable to <em>you?</em> I use mine up to about 30m or so, and then choose my 150.</p>

[kparratt]

<p>I would love to see some pictorial comparisons to support the views expressed here.</p>

<p>1. Distant views using 120 S-Planar, 120 Macro Planar and 150 mm Sonnar.<br>

2. With focus on a near range subject to compare backgrounds.<br>

I can do this but with only the 120 S-Planar and 150mm Sonnar C, and when I've unpacked my darkroom.<br>

It would be better to meet with others in order to combine resources, eg. lens line-up, (there are very few of us who have everything) and do it together. I'd be willing to meet with others either in London or Oslo, or Cologne during Photokina 2010.<br>

For most, I believe images from well planned series of actual exposures are more helpful than MTF diagrams and verbal anecdotes alone.<br>

Other comparisons:<br>

Every version of 50mm Distagon.<br>

Every version of 60mm Distagon.<br>

For Rollei 600/6000 users, <a href="../medium-format-photography-forum/00VBJs">40mm: Distagon and Super Angulon</a> . ... etc</p>

<p>For starters, is there anyone with a 120mm Macro Planar (any model), or perhaps late 150mm Sonnar, who would like to meet in London, if not December, then January/Febuary next year?<br>

Others could also do it in the Americas, Europe, Australia wherever you are.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>Kevin,</p>

<p>That sounds like something very much over the top, just to find that the difference between the two lenses in question is nothing to worry about. It's not necessary. ;-)<br />(Quite unworkable too, i think: how do you propose, for instance, to set and maintain a common ground for comparisons?)</p>

[kparratt]

<p>Hi Q.G.<br>

With the Camera set up and lenses on hand, simply make a series of exposures with each lens in turn. Same roll of film and stable lighting conditions. Perhaps duplicate the exercise on different film.<br>

I am not actually worried about it, and I value the experience shared in the discussions. I just want to see.<br>

On a tangent, since when has the 120 not been on the Hasselblad product list? I visit hasselblad.se with some trepidation now, as the V system dwindles ever more.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>Just think we don't need to do that all over the world, arranging international meetings to compare notes, and such. ;-)</p>

<p>I don't keep track anymore what is and what isn't still available.<br>

I believe that now for quite a while, they are only offering those items that they still have stock of. The "V-System" is a "while stocks last" thing.</p>