Mail Order Story

[blanston]

<p>I ordered two Avenger C-Stands w/Extension Arm sets from B&H a couple of weeks ago--both were shipped in the product boxes, and both boxes arrived open, full of holes, and both stands were damaged. I was fortunate to be home to refuse these items. I called B&H to tell them what happened and to re-order, but decided against re-ordering when I was advised that the replacement stands would be shipped in the same manner, i.e., without any protection beyond their thin, cardboard product boxes.</p>

<p>I ordered the same stuff from Adorama, and of course just refused both packages for the same reason. They also don't seem to grasp that heavy items with pointy metal ends might come through thin carboard, sans padding of any kind.</p>

<p>Are there any mail-order sources for this type of equipment that takes the time to protect such items for shipping? (I would buy these from local suppliers, but all said they would have to do as I did--mail order them.)</p>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>If you bought from a local source, they would bear the responsibility for getting them in good order, not you.</p>

<p>I purchased a boom stand from Calumet and it arrived in similar condition as yours. The second one arrived intact.</p>

<p>I don't think anybody has the resources to repack things like light stands and booms, because of the necessity of stocking boxes in enough variety of sizes to fit the variety of products.</p>

<p>The alternative is to do what Amazon does, which is throw the manufacturer's box in a much larger outer carton with minimal padding, so the stuff gets broken anyway.</p>

<p>I'm not sure there's a solution here that doesn't increase prices.</p>

<p><Chas><br /></p>

[mike51664877339]

<p><em>"I'm not sure there's a solution here that doesn't increase prices."</em><br>

So sad, since often there is a separate (and usually pretty high) shipping charge. I used to order hundreds of 3-ring binders from Quill, and systematically 20% to 30% were damaged during shipping because they had been loosely packed in their cases by the manufacturer. They always made good, but I wrote to the VP of Operations to suggest that they re-pack or ask the manufacturer to modify their packing, and they did. Consider going "above" the person on the phone to make a decision maker aware of the problem. (It's tough to find the name of a real person at consumer-oriented web sites.)</p>

 

[helen_oster]

<p>Robert<br>

Could you please email me directly with your order number, and I will discuss with our warehouse manager, what can be done to help you.<br>

Thank you<br>

<strong>Helen Oster<br />Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador</strong><br>

helen.oster@adoramacamera.com<br>

www.adorama.com<br>

</p>

 

[dhhensler]

<p>I simply love that both Adorama and B&H have people who monitor the forums for these types of issues. Just another reason I keep going back to both of these suppliers for all my photography needs. Thanks Adorama & B&H!</p>

[blanston]

<p>Helen from Adorama: Thanks, and will be in touch on Monday.<br /> <br /> Michael: Great advice. I begin to wonder if, taking the example of these two 32-pound C-Stands, a shipping department person might think to perhaps run a couple of rows of packing tape around each box for reinforcement, or perhaps lash the two boxes together with tape and put more tape around that, or simply take bulk cardboard sheets and fold & tape those around the unprotected boxes.<br /> <br /> I know what I'm wondering aloud about takes time to do, but I have to imagine that it would be cheaper than the alternative, which is losing a sale, taking back a damaged product, and eating a big shipping bill, both ways (I paid about $40 to have these shipped to me from New York to Virginia).<br /> <br /> I am gratified that nobody (yet) has criticized the carrier (UPS, this time), because I don't think it is UPS's fault. Yes, they pretty much kick packages across the country, but we know that and should know to prepare the items we ship with them for such abuse.</p>

[ken_kuzenski1]

<p>Many years ago I met a man who was a "packaging engineer" for a large manufacturer of household appliances and products. One of the things he told me was that for every given product, it was expected that a given number would be damaged in transit and would have to be replaced. And that number of returned, damaged products was determined by the finance people, based on the cost of the item and the cost of dealing with the damaged units, and so on. The number of returned items was the most efficient balance between the cost of returns and the cost of the packaging and shipping. And once that number of returned items was determined, it was his department's job to design packaging that would meet that number.<br>

He said they could easily design packaging that would guarantee virtually 100% damage-free shipping, but it would be expensive to make the packaging, to pack the items, and more expensive to ship them. So they were always looking for the "sweet spot"--the balance between no returns and too many returns--where the company's profits were maximized. <br>

I thought it was interesting enough that I've remembered it all these years. <shrug></p>

 

[mike51664877339]

<p>Good point, Ken. Your Packaging Engineer talked about a design that would succeed 100% of the time, and the OP was concerned about a process that would <strong><em>fail </em> </strong> 100% of the time. (There may be a certain "generational" thing, too. Japanese manufactureres have taught us to strive for zero defects.)</p>

[blanston]

<p>Update: B&H credited me the cost of the damaged-at-point-of-delivery items I refused, and refunded shipping as well as a separate Visa credit. I'm sure Adorama will do the same.</p>

[blanston]

<p>Update: Adorama did so as well--credited the full amount of the items, including shipping. I am hopeful that I can re-order these items in some sort of protective packaging (via Helen at Adorama). Cheers.</p>

[helen_oster]

<p>Robert<br>

Contact me directly and I will arrange a 'special pick'<br>

<strong>Helen Oster<br />Adorama Camera Customer Service Ambassador</strong><br>

helen.oster@adoramacamera.com</p>

 

[blanston]

<p>Helen took the time to talk with a warehouseman, who took steps to ensure that the Avenger C-Stands would arrive undamaged this time. Received both boxes, reinforced, still sealed, and intact. I haven't opened them yet, but I am sure everything's fine.<br>

<br /> Thank you Helen & Adorama, who took the time for a personal touch--would that the larger company could (if you know what I mean).<br>

<br /> And Bogen/Manfrotto: Please beef up your packaging materials; the damaged shipments and subsequent returns are annoying resellers and customers alike.</p>

[helen_oster]

<p>Thanks for the feedback Robert, which I've passed to Fred Wasser in the sales team & Adam Fiore in the warehouse, who really did the work in pulling this together; (good to know it arrived safely).</p>

<p>Helen</p>