Film not wound on tightly at the end with Zeiss Ikon Nettar 517/16

[daniirwan]

<p>Hi everyone. I'm currently having some film loading, or rather, unloading troubles with my Nettar 517/16, and I'd like to see if anyone has experience this before with this particular model of the Nettar or any other cameras using 120 rollfilm...and if you have, what do you think is the problem and how to solve it.</p>

<p>See, I've run 2 rolls of film thru my Nettar, 1 roll of Reala and just today, 1 roll of Velvia..my 1st ever slide film. Now, the Reala I shot about 3 weeks ago..and it was spoiled because when I wound the advance knob, it got progressively tighter and more difficult to turn starting from frame no. 6 onwards. Near the end, frame no 11, it got so tight it stripped some of the skin on my thumb! In the end, I gave up trying and just opened the camera's back. What I saw was that the film was jammed..somehow, it was wound on very loosely onto the film spool that it took up almost all the space in the take up side, causing it to be impossible to be advanced anymore. I ended up ripping that roll of Reala out and needless to say, it had light leaks all over and only frame no.1 was barely usable. I was frustrated to say the least. Back then, I thought this was caused by me using an older all-metal 120 film spool as the take up spool..I thought it had a different size/slot size or something, but today I found out I was wrong.<br>

<br />Today, I went for a photo outing. I loaded a roll of Velvia into the Nettar. For the take up spool, I used a plastic modern 120 spool taken from another camera of mine. As I progressed through the film, advancing the film was easy and no difficulties whatsoever. But then, when the roll was finished and I had advanced the film all the way, I opened the back to see that the film was still..how to<br />say..'bulging' out of the film spool, i.e. it seems like it was not wound on tightly to the film spool. I was still able to take out the film normally and I immediately put on some tight rubberbands at both ends of the film, but I think I'll have lightleaks in this one too :( I have no idea what's causing this. Seeing this webpage, <a href="http://www.thecamerasite.net/03_Folder_Cameras/Pages/zeisnettar.htm">http://www.thecamerasite.net/03_Folder_Cameras/Pages/zeisnettar.htm</a>, it says the 517/16 Nettar was meant to be used with a 'B 2 spool'..I haven't the foggiest idea what that is either. It's weird because with my Voigtlander Perkeo I and Yashica A TLR, I always end up with an exposed film that's wound VERY tightly and closely to the spool.<br>

<br />I'll try to post a photo of the Velvia on the spool if I can, later.<br /><br />Any help much appreciated. Thanks so much.</p>

 

 

 

 

[daniirwan]

<p>I've taken several pictures, here they are:</p>

<p><img src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/daniirwan/DSC_0462Custom.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[daniirwan]

<p><img src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/daniirwan/DSC_0463Custom.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[daniirwan]

<p><img src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/daniirwan/DSC_0464Custom.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[daniirwan]

<p>Note the 'bloated' look of the Velvia roll compared to the rather svelte roll of Tri-X on the right.</p>

<p><img src="http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc90/daniirwan/DSC_0466Custom.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="466" /></p>

[va3uxb]

<p>Hi Dani - I just posted a reply in the other Nettar thread - I didn't see this one.</p>

 

[daniirwan]

<p>Hi Stephanie! Yes, I've posted this here just in case..so that more people can have a look at it :) I've also replied to your thread just now..have a look.</p>

[va3uxb]

<p>Maybe best to keep it here since it's ontopic to this thread.<br>

<img src="http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00U/00UxOO-188379584.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="534" /><br>

The two flat spring things need to be pulled outwards slightly, so they are more into where the film goes. I do this before I load either the film reel or the takeup spool. They are very stiff but I just get the tip of my finger behind them and give a little pull to try and get them more in the 'way' so they are actually pressing on the spools.</p>

<p>The take-up spool one won't touch to start with but I think they work in tandem, i.e. the one on the right applies tension to the film spool at the begining, then towards the latter half of the roll the one on the left starts applying tension to the takeup spool as it gets more filled. If both sides are somewhat loose though, you wind up with the problem of the film too-loose on the spool.</p>

 

[User_1172872]

<p>I suggest that in addition to bending the tabs, when you first start to wind the film, try keeping one finger on the roll (left) side, so that it is very tight as it goes on the take up spool.</p>

[User_1172872]

<p>Sorry, I think I get left and right mixed up. I mean keep a finger on the film you have loaded, so that it is drawn tightly on the take up spool when you first load the film.</p>

[va3uxb]

<p>That's a good point too - when I start a roll of 120 in any camera, I make sure it's winding tightly before closing up the back. </p>

 

[john_liberty]

<p>As you've discovered, there's no difference between using the metal take up spool vs the plastic one. Try using a sacrificial roll of film w/ the back off to determine the problem. Make sure it's taking up properly, that the little chrome rollers are running true, and that the film's tab is secure in the take up spool. Wind it slowly and keep your finger on the left side roll as P.K. suggested and watch to see what's going on in there. Examine the pressure plate and make sure all is OK.</p>

<p>The only thing I can think of w/o seeing the inside of the camera is that one of the thin rollers on either side of the film chamber are not secure in their little holes and the film is winding on crooked.</p>

[daniirwan]

<p>Stephanie, Prof K & J. Liberty: Thanks for all your responses, very much appreciated.</p>

<p>Stephanie: I've tried what you suggested (pulling out the metal tabs), but mine is very stiff indeed and I don't think they'll have much affect any which way I pull it. Nevertheless, I'll keep what you said in mind and try to load the film after I've pulled out the tabs a bit.</p>

<p>Prof.K: Good idea..I'll keep my fingers on the supply side film when I load this baby up next time. Another thing, in retrospect, I vaguely remember pulling way too much backing paper/film when I was loading this roll, so that when I inserted the tab into the take up spool's slot, I ended up having film sorta like bulging out in the middle just directly behind the bellows and lens, although I did take up the slack via the advance knob before I closed the camera's back. This could be what I did wrong I think. Also, it is my opinion that the 517/16 Nettar just wants to be pampered a bit...you know, cautious film loading, very slow film advancing, etc etc. That's what I'd do next time :D</p>

<p>J. Liberty: I did what you suggested. My sacrificial film was a roll of Lucky SHD 120 (couldn't even use with any of my red-windowed cameras because I can't see the numbers and markings on the backing paper). I loaded it up slowly, making sure everything was winding on straight & tight, closed the camera back, advanced it till the end and voila! The film seemed to be winded on tightly on the take up spool. :) </p>

<p>Thanks so much again!</p>