Canon versus Epson and fading.

[frederick_stevens1]

<p>I have been looking at this topic and getting confused. I gather that my Canon i9950 is a dye ink printer whereas the top end Epson's, which folk on Photo Net seem to prefer, are pigment ink. Canon did produce a pigment ink printer - the 9500 - but it was immediately modified and became the Mark II 9500! The plot thickens.<br /> I understand that dye inks are very good and produce excellent colours whereas pigment inks are much less vibrant. The problem would seem to be that dye inks fade and pigment inks don't fade but pigment inks clog nozzles. Where does one go?<br /> I am reluctant to spend maybe £1000 on a top end Epson printer and the inks (10 of them!) will be very pricey. Perma Jet do a CIS for the Epson but the inks are not Epson even though they are much cheaper. <br /> I do like the stuff I get from my Canon i9950 using OEM inks but I don't want prints that fade under normal viewing conditions i.e. stuck on the dining room wall! Is there any way by using different papers etc that dye inks can be made less likely to fade? Any advice will be most gratefully received!<br /> I am not surprised that some folk have quit on printers and just use commercial outlets. I have never printed an A3 on my Canon because of the cost and that just doesn't seem right.</p>

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[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>I understand that dye inks are very good and produce excellent colours whereas pigment inks are much less vibrant.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Not sure that’s true across the boards. The new Epson HDR inks have a huge color gamut if that’s what you mean by vibrant. </p>

[frederick_stevens1]

<p>Aaaagh! The mud gets thicker and I think I am going down! It is difficult to keep up with all the developments in the digital photo world.</p>

[ed_lusthoff]

<p>Hey Fredrick. I have the Canon Pro 9000 and yes the ink is expensive,but, in the long run it is less expensive than a new print head every 12-14 months. (I just had to have mine replaced anfter a year and a half.) Canon charges USD $20.00 ea, for their ink tank, Office Depot $17.00. There are places on line that yopu can buy OEM tanks for $13.00 both Canon and Epson. $94.00 for the set of eight, copmpared to 200.00 Canon wants for the set. The ink will not fade in a year or so. It take a very long time for it to fade. LOL ed</p>

[andylynn]

<p>Those 8-12 ink pigment printers do get you better color - I don't know about "vibrant", I prefer as accurate as I can get and then if I want vibrant I can make the image more vibrant before printing - and they do last longer, though probably costing more. I don't know about 1,000 GBP either - in the US we have excellent options from Canon and Epson under $500 (the Pro 9000 MkII and the R1900 - I'd characterize these printers as being very close to dead even in performance) as well as more robust/expensive versions for higher volume.</p>

<p>But anyway, to answer your question, to increase the lifespan of the prints from your current printer you can:<br>

-Use good paper that is "archival" / "acid free"<br>

-If framing, use UV filtering glass<br>

-Keep the print away from direct sunlight</p>

<p>BTW, as for large printing - based on prices in my area I think larger prints are where you save money by printing at home. Inkjet prints can't compete on cost with 4x6 prints from shops, or anything up to 8x10 or so if you shop around for prices, but the prices I see for "real" (chemically processed) printing don't scale linearly - the price increases faster than the surface area of the print as you go up in size - while the inkjet price is pretty much a linear function of area.</p>

[frederick_stevens1]

<p>My thanks for the replies. I am reluctant to move away from my dye based i9950 and get involved in pigment ink printers whoever makes them. Canon should be more 'up front' about their printers and their printer inks. It would be nice if they warned people that dye based inks will fade and they will charge you an arm and a leg for the pleasure of seeing the fading. I cannot see how Canon can justify their dye based ink prices. <br>

Andrew - you make some good points. I didn't know about the archival paper being acid free or the fact that A3 prices are logarithmic and not linear in terms of other sizes! </p>

[andylynn]

<p>It's a marketing thing. When they market a pigment printer they'll say "lasts 200 years!" but when they sell a dye printer they don't say "fades faster than the other models!"</p>

[frederick_stevens1]

<p>Yep! Perishers.</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>It's a marketing thing.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Unless you use real science to make such statements: http://www.wilhelm-research.com/</p>

[mattb1]

<p>If you like your results then stick with what you have. The fadeing is not really an issue, the Canon dye inks are very good and will last twice as long as a color dark room print. Read the reports at the link above, you will see that they will last a reasonable amount of time. Giving up a wider gamut of color is not always a good idea. And pigment inks carry some of their own issues that you don't have now.</p>

<p>When your printer dies or you need a larger format, then switching brands may be a good move.</p>

[frederick_stevens1]

<p>My thanks for the advice!<br>

Matt - good point. I will plough my way through the Wilhelm stuff.</p>

[frederick_stevens1]

<p>I have just looked at Wilhelm and there isn't much on Canon printers - more on Epson and HP. I suspect that using Canon inks and Canon Pro paper in my i9950 will give me the best results and that is what I want. <br>

There would seem to be advantages in using dye based inks but pigment inks would seem to offer better fade resistance. Ah well! I suppose one can't have everything.<br>

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