Nikon Wednesday Pic comments

[marklcooper]

<p>Lex -</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Suppose we all upload our photos to our photo.net portfolios and link them to the Wednesday Pic threads. Those who wish to comment on those photos can do so on the photographer's portfolio, which is traditionally where photo.net critiques are intended to go.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This seems like a workable solution. It kind of reminds of reading an article in a newspaper/magazine though....start out on the front page, then end up continued back in the boonies. Then go back to the front page to read the next article and start all over. Although with today's tabbed browsers I could probably get the hang of it. If I had a gallery folder for my Wednesday pic photos I might be able to identify any possible trends in my selections.</p>

<p>Definitely worth discussing further.</p>

<p>Mark</p>

<p> </p>

[liljuddakalilknyttphotogra]

<p>Hummmmm Lex -<br /> only use photo.net's portfolio space..... I'm not for that idea. Presently I'm only allowed seven photos on photo.net from what I know. I would have to pay for more. Granted not a huge cost, but since I'm already paying for Zenfolio........ Also, I've dealt with the photo.net rating system & I stopped using it because I didn't like it all that much.<br /> Oh - my end goal is not to retain full control as doing that ends the minute we post in a thread like this..... For me the Zenfolio site allows for family, friends etc to go & see what I'm up to & they can easily comment on my photos there. Anyone can.<br /> Just my thoughts.....</p>

[monika_epsefass]

<p>Is it not possible to install a function that blocks any picture larger than demanded, and above 180kb, for example? Which gives you a gentle remark to resize? That's one approach. I don't think we should kill a good thing verbally - this Wednesday thread is really a godsend, and I have so much fun every week (and I guess, from reading, I'm not alone).</p>

[Rene11664880918]

<p>Uhmmmm! I have participated in every single WeDNeSDaY PiC thread since Jose started it last year. I really love it, I learn from it and gives me a motivation to shoot more.<br>

To be honest, some times at the end of the thread I wish I could see more pictures and less words but I can live with that.<br>

For the benefit of the thread itself I support Lex & Shun in any decision they make since they are the ones making sure the thread keeps going for all of us. It's not an easy job!<br>

Then again, I'm a bit confused why words would take more time to download than the shots themselves??<br>

I like Lexe's Idea of a link to the member's portfolio and people can write comments there. They are more accessible to find in the future.<br>

I know that for not paying members there is a limit on how many pictures you can have in your portfolio but also you can add a shot for WeDNeSDaY thread and then put in on the Photo Critique forum. After you've done that you can add one more picture. But in my case, I have a Mac subscription so I really don't need to have a portfolio here in Photo Net. So why did I decided to become a paid member? Well, after a few months visiting the forum I noticed that I had learned more about photography that with all the money I had expend in books over the years and I thought it would be a good idea to support Photo Net after all the benefits I was receiving.<br>

I really hope the thread keeps growing and a favorable solution is found!<strong> Thank you LEX, SHUN and JOSE!</strong></p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>I've only joined the weekly festival a few episodes ago, and I tend to be maybe a bit too verbose. I'll cut down a little - hard, because there is much to admire each week.</p>

<p>Sure a good working critique and rating system for hosted photos is a noble goal (honestly I did not dive into that part of p.net yet), but to me, the Nikon wednesday is about sharing a joy and passion for photography, while critiques should be more point-by-point and could be more blunt. So, I'm largely with the point that Justin Weiss raises: having only links in the thread would make it a significantly different affair.<br>

His idea on pages-as-navigation does make sense, but it would take quite some programming effort, which I realise may not be doable.</p>

<p>It's a tough call... I hope the thread can continue in the spirit in which it was started, and that Jose's opinion on the matter is asked for, and considered.<br>

But agreed we should mind the low-bandwidth surfers and facilitate good moderation - because I think overall the p.net forums keep their high quality thanks to the efforts of the moderators. And ultimately, that quality is what got me over here :-)</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>The current (latest) Wednesday thread takes 3 seconds to download on my browser at home (with an empty cache); at work would be faster (and I'm on another side of the Atlantic to most of you). Three minutes sounds like there is some kind of a problem. Anyway, since it would depend on the traffic situation rather than the number of posts, imposing a limit on how long it takes to download on one computer seems arbitrary. Would it not be better to impose a limit on the number of posts? I.e. 100 posts -> thread closed, come back next week. Of course, either option runs the risk that only the quickest get to post.</p>

<p>I don't think the words affect the downloading time noticeably, but I can see that they do make the threads more time consuming to moderate. Personally I would prefer a thread with no commentary but perhaps a brief description by the photographer to give the image some context.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Regarding my proposal to link photos from our photo.net portfolios...</p>

<p>...photos would continue to be visible on the weekly Nikon WedNEsDAy PiC threads as usual. We wouldn't be seeing hot links or thumbnails. Photos would continue to be displayed, up to 700 pixels wide, exactly as they are when embedded via links from Flickr, smugmug, zenfolio, other most offsite hosts.</p>

<p>From the perspective of any casual or outside viewer, the threads would continue to appear exactly as they have.</p>

<p>The goals - and again, this is just a proposal at this point - would be to:</p>

<ul>

<li>Encourage the active, constructive use of the critique spaces provided in our photo.net portfolios. This is the appropriate place for verbose critiques or even non-critical praise. </li>

<li>Streamline the Nikon WedNEsDAy PiC threads to maintain emphasis on the photos we create.</li>

<li>Retain the option to embed photos hosted off site (Flickr, smugmug, zenfolio, etc.)</li>

<li>Retain the option for <em>sparing</em> use of <em><strong>brief</strong> </em> comments within the threads, to retain the unique sense of camaraderie and benefit to the community inspired by these threads.</li>

</ul>

<p>At present we have no way to impose a word limit on comments. Frankly, I wish we did. It would relieve moderators of having to periodically bring up these discussions. The restraint would be hard-wired into the system (rather like our filters to minimize the excessive use of exclamation marks - altho' some folks object to any restraint of any kind). I'm reluctant to even bring up this issue because it may be interpreted as intrusive and a chilling effect on the unique spirit these Nikon WedNEsDAy PiC threads have developed. That's not our intention.</p>

<p>Notice how I keep repeating "Nikon WedNEsDAy PiC" exactly that way? Google... gotta love how it sees all, knows all, never forgets. Speaking of Google... I have some additional comments on the relevance of that, but I don't wish to digress too far afield at this point in the conversation.</p>

 

<hr />

<p><em>BTW, if I'm not mistaken, even non-subscribers may be able to increase their portfolio limits by actively participating in the existing critiques and ratings systems. It's also worth mentioning that site administrator Josh Root is committed to improving these systems to address the well known deficiencies that have irritated many folks who would like to see more integrity in the critiques and ratings systems. I keep emphasizing "systems" because critiques and ratings are entirely separate and distinct entities.</em></p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>If the links to portfolio are transparent to the reader of the Wednesday pic thread, then I don't see a problem that they're also in the portfolio. And it would be far easier to follow the comments as they're linked to the images - currently it takes some searching to link the comment to the image as it is - probably only those who are commented on, recognize the comments instead of everyone learning from them.</p>

[ds_meador]

<p>I really enjoy the Nikon Wednesday pic thread. I wish the Canon folks would do one, but for some reason, they're not interested. I'm not meaning to start something with that comment either. Though I am tempted to buy an older MF Nikkor so I can participate in this thread with my Canon body.<br>

One thing that I've noticed is that the thread is usually started with some kind of statement that the photo should be from the current week of shooting. Then, usually, somewhere in the thread, I read something like, "Well, I didn't get to shoot this week so here's a picture I took back in (insert year here)." I'm wondering why people feel they have to submit a photo if they don't have a current one to submit. I'm not saying that older photos are not good nor that they don't have merit. I just get the feeling from the thread that posting from the current week's work is the idea. If you don't have a photo from this week, don't submit one and wait until next week when you have a fresh one.<br>

I really enjoy the Street and Documentary section of PN. I have not submitted to two recent discussions because I didn't have a photo related to the topic. So, I'm waiting for the next topic to see if I have something that I can jump in with. I'd love to contribute to every thread, but it is no big deal to sit one out.<br>

I'm not sure whether self-discipline in this area would significantly change the thread in relation to the topic at hand, but it is just one more idea. If the number of images is the concern and the thread gets shut down for the week, then those who post older photos might be contributing to the shut down before folks with newer shots can post them. If 10 people submit older work then 10 people with this week's work can't post it.<br>

If I've misunderstood the idea of the Wednesday Pic thread, please forgive me and disregard this note. However, if the intent really is for folks to post a photo from the current week's work, then by all means should that intent be honored?<br>

I will say this though, aside from all the great photos posted in this thread (it's like eye candy), I really enjoy seeing the inclusion of the equipment used for capture. There's no gear review better than seeing the results.<br>

Blessings - DS Meador</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>I'm wondering why people feel they have to submit a photo if they don't have a current one to submit.</em></p>

<p>I also wonder about this. In my opinion the point of the thread is that people don't post just any old nice image that they've made in their past days of glory but to post something very recent and to encourage people to carry on actively in photography. The currency of the photos adds substantial value and interest to the thread - it shows what people are doing and how the world looks in different parts of the world at the same time. To me at least, this is the main reason to participate.</p>

[graham_thompson1]

<p><em>Ensuring wonky code doesn't bugger up the thread and lock it up.</em><br>

Lex this is a technical expression that I am not familiar with :-)<br>

I like the thread and hope we can keep it going in its present form.<br>

A picture does indeed paint a thousand words.<br>

Graphics is the problem not text.<br>

Thanks to all for making it happen.</p>

[joseph_leotta]

<p>putting the comments on the photos on the portifilos is completely different. we have the photo critique forum for that \. This is a group discussion for all to see, In the critique section no will will open every photo just to see them. Bye bye group discussion which makes this thread special.<br>

Wrork on the photo size issue, not the discussion - This is not the NO words Forum, we have that already.<br>

I enjoy interacting back and forth we these people. Its not happening the same way in other threads.<br>

We have something special here.</p>

 

[dallasmcvickerphotography]

<blockquote>

<p>Hummmmm Lex -<br />only use photo.net's portfolio space..... I'm not for that idea. Presently I'm only allowed seven photos on photo.net from what I know. I would have to pay for more. Granted not a huge cost, but since I'm already paying for {insert anything in here, food, gas,etc}........ Also, I've dealt with the photo.net rating system & I stopped using it because I didn't like it all that much.<br />Oh - my end goal is not to retain full control as doing that ends the minute we post in a thread like this.....</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Agreed! Also I really hate the idea of the load time being the end all of the tread as it take no time for it to load on my machine. There are too many variables from machine to machine. Not fair. Also if your job is the moderator, then that is what you do. Please do not tell us how bad your job is. LEX says "it takes time for moderators."</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Regarding the issue of submitting current photos... it's not really an issue for this particular discussion. Let's concentrate on one topic at a time.</p>

<p>However, while we've encouraged submitting recently taken photos, we've never mandated it and, as far as I'm concerned, never will. At least not as long as there is a roll of film existing somewhere in the world. We still have quite a few film photographers. I'm surprised to see how many of them upload film photos taken within the past week or even the past month. For those who, for example, use Kodachrome, it's likely to take longer than a week just to get the photos back and scan them.</p>

[joseph_leotta]

<p>I can't believe that we are having this discussion - we have a thread that has 200 posts a week, is nne of the most popular threads on pnet, has people looking froward to it each week and is encouraging creative discussion and some want to tinker with is core values.<br>

99 percent of the people using this thread son't c are about how long it takes to load, if they did they would not be using it. I think that Matts comments hit the nail on the head about users and speed.</p>

[jeannean_.]

<p>I like the thread the way it is now, but understand the difficulty from Lex and Shun's viewpoint. For PNet, having a thread this popular is a good thing...as it is for the users. There is more of a "community" feel here than in any other area on PNet I've visited. I've gone back to the archives of this thread and enjoyed each one from the beginning (thank you Jose for starting it) several times. I have a strong feeling that all the comments, banter, sharing of stories, etc., plus the encouraging words from others is what has made this thread so popular.</p>

<p>However, the moderation point is a valid one, and I feel the decision to change this thread should be based on what works best in terms of making things more manageable, not what is perceived by some to be the aesthetic faults of this thread (yes it gets a bit messy at the end, but so does a good party...or life in general). Whatever is decided, I sincerely hope the wonderful "community" feel that has been established is not lost. I imagine the diversity of opinions about this will rival the diversity of photos posted each week. :)</p>

<p> </p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Short of polling Nikon Forum members and, particularly, participants in these weekly threads, we don't have any data to determine what the majority actually think of the weekly photo threads. We've also seen some feedback indicating that not everyone supports the lengthy commentary that has evolved along with the popularity of these threads this year.</p>

<p>That's why we're having this discussion - to get some impressions from the community. However, I am considering setting up an actual poll to get some data. But I doubt we'd make any decisions on the basis of statistics alone.</p>

<p>And, to reassure everyone, we're only interested in making these weekly photo threads as enjoyable as possible for all participants. The threads have obviously been very enjoyable for many folks. Our goal is to continue that while also considering the possible complications.</p>

[tonmestrom]

<p>there is another way of looking at this. Yes, I'm aware that not everyone has a fast internet connection but downsizing the photos even further is preposterous. After all, this is a photo site. Joe said if it isn't kaputt, don,t try to mend it.</p>

<p>I happen to have a very fast internet connection with a clean and fast PC but even I have sometimes trouble uploading PN sites or even getting 503's. Might be worth looking into that first.</p>

<p> </p>

[justthings]

<p>Why not include in the posting guidelines something that says "please refrain from verbose commentary" or words to that effect? Some self-policing by those uploading images could also help though I'm wondering if these kinds of threads can be hardwired to disallow uploads of greater than the desired 300kb file size. I'd hate to see the Wednesday Picture thread change much from its current form as its a fun thread to view and participate in, plus its a good tool to get me to be thinking weekly about capturing or working on an image that I feel would be worthy of posting, so it helps me think about photography. I'd be happy with it being a w/nw format with nominal information about the equipment involved, and perhaps some of the out-of-camera processing (film or digital) involved if something special was done.</p>

[knobstone]

<p>I don't have dial-up, but if is did, I would still take the time to enjoy Nikon WedNEsDAy. I concur with Jeannean, re the comments, banter, sharing of stories are a big part of what makes the thread so popular. If the concern is solely loading time, I don't understand why that shouldn't be the concern of the person doing the viewing. If there are other concerns that are causing a problem that is affecting the site, I could understand. I hope the moderators will "measure twice" before "cutting" with this issue. Joe</p>

[philip_ashley]

<p>The Wednesday thread is a wonderful platform for everyone to show what is going on in their part of the world. I as a person who does not contribute because I just can't learn how to use a computer, even after many lessons, would like to say, I really enjoy the Wednesday Thread but there are far too many critiques, that go on for as many contributers there are sending in their pictures. I think the comments should be made in other threads, the ones where critiques are called for and let us just use the Wednesday Thread as an appetizer.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>I finally got around to really looking at Mark's stats. 22mb! Of <em>course</em> the thing's a dog on any machine/pipe that isn't pretty brisk. But if just the over-the-limit 300+kb folks would reign it in, that would make a tangible difference, right there. I'll confess to reflexively just making sure I'm under the 300kb threshold, without really considering whether a particular image could stand more compression without looking worse for the wear. Some images can tolerate that far more than others, and we all learn something about workflow when we make ourselves consider that as we create the JPGs for these threads.<br /><br />There are folks who post to these threads images that I would hate to see butchered by even a hint more of compression - because it's the details and tone gradients that are so inspiring. But I've also seen some high contrast, non-complex, non-sharp images that wouldn't look meaningfully different at a tenth the file size (I'm sure I've been guilty of at least a couple of those).</p>

[ray_rg]

<p>I am with Jeannean's response. I have been a member here for 9-10 months (a beginner in photography world), usually I do not post a questions ore repl, but I do read many threads in Beginner and Nikon's forum every day and for hours :o) . And I make a point to post a picture on WedNEsDAy's thread.</p>

<p>I hope Lex and Shun's decision will be better for the WedNEsDAy's thread and entire PNetters.</p>

[phil_burt]

<p>The Wednesday feature is a highlight to my week. As an amateur that is steadly learning I get a chance to look at stuff all over the world. It is especially great when someone does post what they used and if there were any situations that would be helpful to know about. There are not many forums that allow anyone to post like this and play with the Pro's so to speak.<br>

Because of who I am I also like it if I get any kind of a mention, Thanks to Lil Judd and a couple others us little guys always get a mention and I am of the opinion that we need it. Just a little one or two words makes out day, we are recoginized with the heavy hitters all over the world. So THANK YOU Lil Judd !!<br>

What my suggestion would be is to have our Wednesday Shoot like it is, monitor the sizes a little better not letting them get any bigger than stated and make another thread called Wednesday Comments. Run that parallel and it won't take up any space from the photos. For some us us that have a good DSL we could bring up Photo.net twice and look at the comments as we are actually looking at the photo using split screen.<br>

phil b<br>

benton, ky</p>

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=2418329"><br /> </a></p>

 

[jeannean_.]

<blockquote>

<p>We've also seen some feedback indicating that not everyone supports the lengthy commentary that has evolved along with the popularity of these threads this year.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Since I'm one of the guilty ones in this regard, I feel compelled to offer a possible solution. We could limit the "all inclusive" commentaries to one post per thread. The commentary could be rotated weekly from a list of people who have the time, energy, and desire to do so. This way, everyone will get some type of feedback and it will lessen the scroll/load time that some are having issues with. Just an idea...</p>