Miranda Sensomat RE - lens options?

[astral]

<p>Today I picked-up an exceptionally clean Sensomat RE in (apparently) good working condition, with a <em>50mm f2.8 </em> lens - almost certainly a Tessar type.</p>

<p>Our friend Google has helped me with <em>some </em> background information, though no a great amount. However, I've also stumbled on a so-called 'better' lens for sale (50mm f1.4 'E') at a nice price. But I believe the 'E' series was intended for the Sensomar RE-II and that Miranda lens variants can be quite confusing.</p>

<p><em>So, could anyone tell me the following please:</em></p>

<ul>

<li>Are the later Auto Miranda E lenses fully useable (in stop-down mode) on the RE - and how about EC variants?</li>

<li>Is the 50mm f1.4 Miranda/Soligor a decent lens?</li>

</ul>

<p>BTW, so far, I'm pretty impressed - it looks/feels well made and works sweetly, the viewfinder is bright, snaps into focus easily and it has excellent eye relief. I'm hoping that the metering and shutter speeds are reasonably accurate: test film available tomorrow, hopefully. Many thanks</p>

<p> </p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>peter naylor can likely say more and be more accurate<br>

as far as I know a miranda 50mm f/2.8 ( think it was 5 element) was a preset lens supplied on early model D cameras<br>

and a few before. I do not think there ever was a auto 50mm f/2.8.<br>

most C & D models came with a 50mm f/1.9 lens with a PAD ( arm with external diaphrgm copupling.<br>

when Miranda went to internal coupling either F or G model the lenses were first 1.9 and later 1.8.<br>

I don't thing there is any great difference between them. ( both 6 element lenses)<br>

all mirandas used the same lens miout ( except for some later M42- close in appearance to the sensomat)<br>

AND SOME k MOUNT CAMERAS SOME OF WHICH WERE JUST MARKED miranda.<br>

the aitomex and sensores ( non E) lenses would work properly on a sensomat. but most had no click stops. and used<br>

the left hand "tab" the aperture was shown in a small window clost to the body.<br>

so a F, G would look like the normal sensomat lens<br>

I have little experience with later E and EC lenses<br>

but the diaphragm will will close properly. but the metering will be stop-down.<br>

T-4 ( vivitar and soligor) lenses are adaptable.<br>

a Vivitar TX lens will fit and work with a T4 adapte.<br>

some may agree or argue, But my 28mm f/2.5 TX lens works properly on my sensorex.<br>

spiratone soly YS lenses " accura diamatic" that were adaptable to Miranda</p>

<p>THE 50mm f/1.4 lens is not supposed to be the best or even a great lens.<br>

I have one but someone else can likely have more to say..<br>

the bodies have a reputation for being well made.<br>

one possible flaw is the wire from the mirror to the meter in TTL models</p>

<p> </p>

[astral]

<p>Thanks Walter. A couple of websites refer to Miranda having difficulties maintaining backwards compatibility with their later lenses, hence my caution. </p>

<p>Yes the current lens is an Auto Miranda 50mm f2.8. I'm not averse to slow lenses (which <em>can be</em> quite decent performers), as long as the viewing screen remains bright enough. Also, I'm only interested in faster lenses for the viewfinder clarity, and not necessarily for wide-open performance, as such. I'm not aiming to build a big system - just a good 50mm and 35mm lens (possibly c.100mm). So I think I'll be sticking to Miranda/Soligors - whether good or bad, though it's a little tempting to put a contemporary independent (T2/T4) lens or two on the camera.</p>

<p> </p>

[mark_medin]

<p>If you want to go another route, the M42 adapter is pretty common for the Miranda. There are a very large number of lens adapters for the Miranda, from the aforementioned M42 to Exakta to Nikon to Minolta(!), so if you can't find compatible lenses (although you can use Automex and Sensorex lenses even if the tab is inconveniently placed), an adapter will serve although you lose some function (auto stop-down).</p>

<p> </p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>ok as I said " I am unfamiliar with newer models and e and ec lenses<br>

http://www.mirandacamera.com/_modelinfo/modelinfo.htm#Sensomathttp://www.mirandacamera.com/_modelinfo/modelinfo.htm#Sensomat</p>

<p>this page clears it up a but as it mentions "full apture metering<br>

with ec lenses<br>

\lack of full understanding on my part.</p>

[astral]

<p>Thanks. The more I learn about Mirandas the more I ask myself "<em>what am I getting myself into?</em> " ... And using the camera today shook up all the crud inside, slowing the shutter to a virtual standstill - but I'm happy to have it CLA'd - <em>c'est la vie</em> .</p>

[peter_naylor1]

<p>Hi, Alan Well, after that nice intro from Walt, I guess I'd better throw my five bob's worth in ....</p>

<p>OK, now although the commonest f2.8 standard lenses are the M44 preset ring 5 cm Soligors from the late 50s and early 60s, fitted as standard on economy models like the 'S', 'D' and 'DR', later ones with automatic diaphragms do show up. My Sensomat RS has one fitted (pic below). It's a bit of a mystery why and where they were fitted as standard, because they never seem to be mentioned in owner's manuals. For example, the standard lens quoted in the 'RS' manual is the f1.8 50mm. For your 'RE', it's either the f1.8 or f1.4. However, don't think badly of the various f2.8 standard lenses; although relatively slow, they are of five elements and sharp as a tack even at max aperture.</p>

<p>I can't see why you couldn't fit an f1.4 'E' type lens to your 'RE', seeing you've spotted a cheapie. The major concern with fitting newer lenses to older models seems to be with the "EC' ones, but have a look at the guidance in the 'standard lenses' section of the Miranda Historical Society's excellent website at <a href="http://www.mirandacamera.com">www.mirandacamera.com</a> for detailed advice.</p>

<p>Lastly, I've decided to do a pic and write-up of the rarely seen (and sold) Miranda RS with f2.8 50mm Auto Miranda in my Flickr Portfolio Pages. I've just seen this post disappear twice when I try and include the link (damn you, Bill Gates!) so I'll post it separately ....</p>

<p>PETE IN AN ALMOST SPRING-LIKE PERTH<br>

</p><div></div>

[peter_naylor1]

<p>OK, now here - with a bit of luck - is the link to the Miranda section of my Flickr Pages, including the latest one about the RS:</p>

<p> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/32113303@N07/sets/72157611159905533/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/32113303@N07/sets/72157611159905533/</a></p>

<p>PETE IN PERTH</p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>I know peter would have an answer.<br>

he recentlu posted two sensorexed with both gold and silver panels.<br>

I went to the mirandacamera site and there was no mention of this 50mm f/2.8 lens.<br>

but peter knew<br>

he resonded to my email to the post abopve.<br>

there was an early 50mm 1.5 ? and an early 85mm. both for the automex.<br>

but it seems to be lost in the "clouds of history"</p>

<p>There seem to be several " almost never seen" camera models out there.,</p>

<p>I sent peter Nalor a posting I found on the inner workings of AIC, seems my 13 year old granddaughter could do a MUCH better job.<br>

the quality of the cameras ( despite being different) was obscured by their flakeyness.<br>

sorry I doubted your word, as that lens is a real rarity.</p>

 

[astral]

<p>Many thanks Pete,</p>

<p>Yes, Walt's intro put me on the right tracks. I'm trying to digest the contents of the MHS website (etc), which is indeed very helpful. And, it's good to know that the 50mm f2.8 is a good lens, thanks. If the 50mm f1.4 is a 'half-decent' lens I may grab it, not especially for the full aperture performance, but for the screen brightness.</p>

<p>While keenly searching for a 'must have' Auto 35 or 28mm, I've come across an Auto 105mm f2.8, which is one of my favourite lengths - maybe I can afford the exorbitant £29 (but it has a return option)!. The user manual also lists a 25mm - that's my <em>fave </em> length, but I imagine those lenses are very rare. There's also a Miranda DR for sale from a dealer hereabouts with the Soligor 50mm f1.9 (if this is actually the Zunow-made one it's a "cult" lens in Leia mount), but it's a whopping £75!</p>

<p>So, the "<em>what am I getting myself into?</em> bit could be quite a serious issue as I turned down a really nice Sensorex in favour of the more modern Sensomat .... but it's still available from the guy who services all my cameras for c. £18 with lens. But maybe it's wise to stick with the RE though, since CLAs cost more than cameras nowadays.</p>

<p>By the way, buying the Sensomat is <em>in memoriam</em> of a very dear friend and mentor who was a major source of inspiration in my photography for about 40 years ... Now, where can I find some good old Agfa CT18 .....</p>

<p>Regards, AC</p>

<p> </p>

[astral]

<p>Walt - the "<em>mist of time</em> " is the phrase here, which amply describes some of my lenses, much of my photography and almost all of my memory ;-)</p>

[mark_medin]

<p>Pete,<br>

That Sensomat RS is a bizarre one - not just that it's meterless, but the front shutter release is deleted also. At least it still had a removable prism. The 50/2.8 is another puzzler, too. I don't think I ever saw such a slow SLR normal lens selling at that late a date without being a macro.</p>

[astral]

<p>I <em>guess </em> that this is the original lens, since the camera was in a small collection that was being sold off '<em>lock, stock and barrel</em> '. There were many different cameras, and the 2 or 3 SLRs came with a standard lens only. All of the gear appeared to be pretty budget class (no expensive classics) and all pre-1975-ish so maybe the owner just bought the cheapest combos he could afford(?).</p>

<p> </p>

[walter_degroot]

<p>the lack of a front release is really strange.<br>

but I never had. but read of a removable "sketch release"<br>

that was a top release. I think It may have started as a cable release socket.<br>

Miranda stressed that the front release meant the photos would be sharper<br>

the top release. common to most other slrs, would cause the camera to move down if "stabbed"<br>

Jessups, the uk basesd camera chain. sold other cameras some were real mirandas badged as something else<br>

I saw One miranda in the usa ,that was a k mount cosina?<br>

I also thought the M42 mirandas ( similar to a sensomat)<br>

were normal looking. but one on ebay last year had an UGLY thick<br>

metal ring. sticking out the front<br>

Very different from a normal miranda woth a PM adapter.</p>

 

[peter_naylor1]

<p>Hi, Alan, Walt and Mark It's always nice to see such interest in a marque like Miranda that has now been gone for almost 35 years, despite those Cosina badge-engineered revamps. As Walt mentioned, the way the AIC Co. that had bought out Miranda in the early 60s ran things in a very strange manner, so it's no surprise that things eventually went kaput c. 1976. The document that Walt refers to is a personal account from Lee Manheimer, who worked for AIC for several years before defecting to Vivitar. If you're interested in reading it, you'll have to join the Yahoo Miranda Collectors Group here:</p>

<p> <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mirandacollectors/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mirandacollectors/</a></p>

<p>However, it's not such a painful exercise, because there's a lot of really interesting stuff recorded in the Group's 'Files' and 'Photos' as well as Lee M's account of Life At AIC. I've even posted a couple of IB scans, including the Soligor TM which is really a Miranda TM which is really a Sensomat ...... are you getting the picture here yet, about the strange way this Company went about things?</p>

<p>Regarding Mark's comments about the lack of a side shutter release on the Sensomat RS as well as the removal of the CDS metering, yes - that's true. The usual situation with Mirandas was to have a side shutter release as well as a threaded recess in the top cover, to take a cable release in traditional Leica style. With the fitment of one of those rare 'sketch releases' that Walt mentioned, it effectively became a second shutter button. Clearly the AIC bean-counters reckoned one was enough, so out went the side-release and the top one was all you got. However, at least it was threaded to take a cable release ...</p>

<p>One other really annoying item removed from the 'RS' was any DOF preview facility, either on the body or on the lens, whether it be the correct f1.8 standard one (vide the OM) or the f2.8 one fitted to mine. That really is a 'Revenge Of The Bean Counters' job, because a 35mm SLR without any DOF preview has lost 50% of its usefulness over a 35mm CRF camera. All you could see, irrespective of selected aperture, was what the lens provided fully open. Of course, as you hit the shutter button the automatic diaphragm closed down in the conventional manner to the selected aperture, but that didn't help your previous attempts at DOF composition (sigh!) Talking of which, does your f2.8 Auto Miranda have any DOF facility?</p>

<p>Lastly, it's interesting that you're in the UK, Alan, because I'm tending to suspect that it was the UK Miranda importers who chose the f2.8 lens route to drop the price on the 'RS', because they'd done a similar cost-cutting thing back in 1962 with the DR. Its usual better lens was an f1.9 Soligor with PAD side-arm, but somehow it got offered in the UK with a strange f1.8 preset Soligor that never seems to have been offered anywhere else. I've attached a scan of an advert for it, in illustration. My suspicions are that because it was offered at just below 70 quid, somehow that kept it below a certain tariff threshold. Now, could it just be that the same situation applied to my 1971 Sensomat RS, with f2.8 Auto Miranda that nobody around the world knows anything about? </p>

<p>PETE IN A SPRINGY PERTH</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[astral]

<p>G'day Cobber. Well, when time permits I'll get together some photos of, and taken, with the RE. Also, I have a large collection of mags from the 70s through to the 90s which may contains useful information to share.</p>

<p>Until the early 70s UK Purchase Tax was indeed a shocking 33% for "luxury goods", which certainly included imported cameras. A Miranda DR at £69-19-9 was clearly a camera for a very serious enthusiast. My friend and mentor was pretty affluent, and owned a Mk X <em>and </em> 3.8 S-type Jaguar, <em>and </em> an L-type MG (!) - so he could afford a Miranda and numerous lenses. I had a Balda.</p>

<p>My 50/2.8 has a SN 502893, but there's no visible SN on the body - but numbers aren't always of great significance. The lens itself doesn't have a d-o-f preview, just the camera meter button. At the last camera fair was a 'sketch release' which I nearly bought, but thought £5 was a rip off - mebbe I'll grab it next time round.</p>

<p>Incidentally, my earlier inference about the 50mm f1.9 Miranda/Soligor possibly being <em>manufactured </em> by Zunow, may be inaccurate; though I guess the basic design dated back to the Zunow era. However, I still don't know if the Zunow is a 'cult' through rarity alone, or because it's a cracking lens.</p>

<p>While I am committed to not wading into the deep-end of Mirandas, I think I may <em>investigate </em> a meterless body if the RE turns out good results after it's forthcoming CLA. Obviously, I'll also need a duffle-coat, trilby, some cavalry twill trousers and a pair of brogues (I still have the ties) to complete the outfit.</p>

<p>[Alan in chilly England]</p>

<p> </p>

[astral]

<p>Quick question folks - what size filters/caps fit the 50mm f1.4 (E)?</p>

<p>I'm "sizing up" a lens, but there's no lens cap: a 55m push-on metal cap is available separately. Thanks.</p>

[mark_medin]

<p>Alan,<br>

The easiest way to get a sketch release is to buy a camera with one already on it. On its own, everyone charges too much for one unless you find one in those boxes of odds and ends at a camera show or swap meet. My Sensomat RE had one already attached when I bought it and it didn't cost me any more than the ones that didn't have it.<br>

BTW, I think most Zunow lenses are more collectible than great (they were only around for a brief time, comparatively), though there are some exceptions.</p>

[peter_naylor1]

<p>Hello Alan, old chap - I think you're really getting this Miranda Bug big time, from the sound of things. Just keep away from late nights on Ebay USA, or you might end up with a Miranda T and a very large dent in your bank account ...<br>

Talking of the Miranda T, that was the company's first model way back in the mid-50s and the only one to have had a Zunow lens, which was an f1.9 with preset ring. (Miranda afficianados consider that the Ofunar f1.9 for the 'T' was actually a rebadged Zunow, BTW.) Soligor also made an f1.9 for the 'T'.<br>

However, for the ensuing models like the 'A', 'B', 'C', 'D', 'DR' etc, the f1.9 lenses had side-arms to give automatic diaphragm control Exakta-style, and were all made by Soligor with the exception of a few called 'Prominars' made by Kowa. Those Kowa items are very rare and valuable, and I was lucky to score one on my Miranda B.<br>

What Mark says about Zunow optics is true. This small company has an almost exalted position especially amongst Japanese collectors, because they were in the forefront of producing super-fast lenses like an f1.2 when most other companies were scratching to even get to f1.5 - however, their accuity was a bit dodgy wide-open. </p>

<p>Now, regarding your RE's body s/no, just have a look around the base collar of the rewind crank and you should see it there viewed front-on. <br>

Interesting about your f2.8's lens s/no, as mine is '503970' ie about a thousand on, meaning there was a reasonable production run. (So where did all the others go then, he mused ...) <br>

Lastly, I haven't got an f1.4 'E' but I do have an f1.4 'EC' on my DX-3, and it's got a 49mm filter thread.<br>

Happy Miranda hunting from Pete In Perth, mate.</p><div></div>

[astral]

<p>According to the manual for the <em>Sensorex EE</em> , 'E' and 'EC' type lenses <em>will </em> physically mount on earlier cameras but apparently will not operate at <em>f1:1,6</em> due to the design of the aperture coupling pin.</p>

<p>This is a little puzzling since the Miranda webpages don't list any f1.6 lenses, just a 50mm f1.4. So the question is whether this is a typographical error and should actually read as f16?</p>

<p>All Miranda lenses appear to go to f16, but losing f16 wouldn't be a major issue for me. Nor, <em>practically</em> , would losing f1.6, although if the maximum useable aperture with an 'E' 50mm f1.4 is effectively only f1.8 there's no point paying the extra for the faster lens.</p>

<p> </p>