Where have the Large format cameras gone?

[tomscott]

<p>Thanks Cliff, I appreciate the thought. The only thing holding me back at this point is finding a tank that is not overly expensive, Jobo seems just a little out of my league, but I would like to find one that has a water tight lid. Any suggestions would be great. I intend to have a darkroom some day but, only time will tell.<br>

I will do a search for this "Georgia Guide Stone". I have never heard of it but I have a feeling that I would agree with your sentiments about it. Still, it might make for a good photo.<br>

I do make it back to Florida pretty regularly, at least once a year anyway. I lived in Bradenton for 13 years and was stationed there in the Coast Gaurd for 5 of those years (our patrol area was from Boca Grande Channel to Egmont Key and everything south of the Skyway bridge, I was there when they demolished the old bridge and hauled it away in Barges I got to see a pretty good bit of the Gulf Coast area but, all I had back then was a Minolta XG-A. </p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Tom, I did a post one time on using PVC pipe for tanks, I also have used PVC pipe for 6x9 film holders and develop 7 sheets at a time in a standard 35mm tank. I think I posted this one time as a road kit that you can use in a motel room to do B&W or Color. At home I usually use an old Fink tank or trays. Here is one example of a pipe tank, you could try out.</p>

<p><a href="http://medfmt.8k.com/brontube.html">http://medfmt.8k.com/brontube.html</a></p>

<p>Another way is to use a valve on the end of the dark tank tube with the film and make a second pipe that you fill with Chem and after you fill it you slip it onto the valve invert and open the valve, when the time is up open the valve transfer the chem back to the top tube, and switch the top tube to the next chem, etc, if you can visualize how that works. You need black pipe as the white is translucent and is not light tight. You can make a rack of these and do as many sheets at a time as you like.</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Tom, here is one of those posts.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PNen">http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00PNen</a></p>

[tomscott]

<p>Thanks Cliff, very interesting, I will have to study those plans some.</p>

[jeff_guthrie]

<p>For developing 4x5 film I bought a used Jobo 2500 series tank and 4x5 sheet film reel. I got it from ebay for about $50. I like the tank because I can also use 35mm reels in it. The 2500 series tank is also convenient because I can use a single liter of chemicals in it, which makes mixing one-shot much simpler. If you are doing 8x10 or whatever, a home-made PCV tank is a very good idea, and a fun Home Depot style project.<br>

All the Florida talk brings back memories. I also lived in Bradenton for a couple of years before moving down to Broward Country. I found I prefer the gulf coast area for it's people and scenery, Broward and Dade counties are rather nasty places nowadays.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>Has anyone used one of these? <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=63620&is=REG">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=63620&is=REG</a> Any opinions? The homemade pipe tanks look easy enough but, I assume they would only do one sheet at a time. Wouldn't that be wasting alot of chemical? Or am I missing something? Can the developer, (in my case D76) be used more than once? If so I could see making several tubes and pouring the chemicals from one to the other.</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Yes the Yankee tanks will work but you can find a lot of people that hate them for various reasons. The common method with pipes and tubes is to put a fairly small amount of chem in them, shake them up to evenly cover the film, then put them down horizontal and roll. You only need enough chem to cover the film while you roll it. Also the chemicals are reusable depending on what you use. For example some start to deplete after the very first sheet and you need to increase time with each one after. Dafine on the other hand, I have used over and over for two years. It seems to keep on working unless you contaminate it. And others are just one shot, poof. But with the tubes you don't need a lot in each tube.</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Sorry that's Diafine, I find that you get very consistent results with it and it's the most bang for the buck since it doesn't wear out so to speak, and extremely long life even after you mix it up. I usually mix up a batch and then divide it into smaller bottles and use it over and over till it looks nasty enough to dump even when it's still working, then use the next set of bottles, etc. Timing is not critical and it's very easy to use.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>I just read the Data sheet for Diafine, that is some pretty amazing stuff. I think I will have to give it a try. The only reason I bought D-76 is that it was what I used as a child when I first learned B&W processing so 40 years later when I decided to get back into it, it was familiar to me. The Diafine sounds like a lot less trouble with worrying about time or temperature. And like you said it lasts a long time. I am really beginning to wonder if I would be just as well off developing in trays. I have a bathroom that I could black out fairly easily, can this be done with a safelight or would it have to be totally dark?</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>You can't get any cheaper than a tray. In fact the little sandwich boxes they sell at the grocery store in a 3 or 4 pack for a buck work great. And they are made from recycled Plastic! And cat litter trays from the dollar store work great for up to 11x14.</p>

<p>If you use fast film it needs to totally dark. Check it out at night, you don't need to do your processing in the daytime. Around the door you can use some stick on foam strips from the hardware store and throw a towel on the floor at the bottom of the door. That should be light tight enough. windows are a problem in the daylight but easy to get pretty tight for night time.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>OK, so what about 100 speed film? I rarely use anything higher even in medium format or 135 (maybe the occasional 160 but that's color film so I'm not concerned about that anyway). I would just feel much more comfortable with a little light. How do you read a timer in total darkness, or do you just use the glow in the dark style. I quess with the diafine you could use one that chimes or dings every 3 minutes? I quess once it is processed and stop bathed, you can turn the lights on anyway right?</p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>Tom, the film needs to be fixed before the lights can be turned on. That's what makes the image on the neg stable. Only Ortho film can be developed under a safelight. The glow in the dark timers such as the Gralab could work. Never tried it with film in a tray. Have always done my film processing in a daylight tank. from 35 -4x5.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>Thanks Jack, I thought fixing was necessary at first but then I started to doubt myself. What kind of daylight tank do you use for 4X5?</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Tom, I have done a lot of 100 and 125 speed film in bath rooms, motel rooms, tents, etc. that have little light leaks that you notice after about 15 minutes in the dark. They are really not too much of a problem if they are isolated to one area. Remember that light doesn't bend, so you just position yourself between the film and the light leak. that way it won't get to the film and hurt it. The faster films might get fogged from the bouncing around off the walls and ceiling from the leak though. It kind of depends on how much light and if you are in a white or light colored room. Of course if you are going to use a daylight tank, you just need a changing bag, and don't have to worry about the dark at all.</p>

[jack_welsh]

<p>Tom, I have a simple Yankee daylight tank. Some like it, some don't. But, they are plentiful and cheap. Heard that they made covers for the developing trays in the past. You could try Ortho film in 4x5. I like it for the old box cameras.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>Thanks again Jack, I will probably go with the Yankee daylight tank. I may have to try the diafine in it though, it sounds pretty interesting, quite versatile. Develop everything at 3 minutes at any temp from 68 to 85deg I believe is what the data sheet said. And from what Cliff is saying, it can be used over and over. I am just about out of D76 anyway, I think I'll have to give it a try.</p>

[cliffmanley]

<p>Tom,<br>

The only time I have run into trouble with using it over is when you develop different brands, and/or color film as B&W. It does them all well but when you mix them, the different anti halation dyes and chemicals sometimes give you adverse reactions like stripping the emulsion completely. I once put color and B&W in the same tank and it left clear film with a blob of emulsion in the bottom of the tank. Try to keep a batch for one kind, or brand of film, and it seems to last forever. I have a bunch of different plastic drink containers from the dollar store, with the flip pour spout marked with a magic marker. They don't need to be dark bottles either. The light doesn't bother it. I usually run my film about 5 minutes in each even though they say 3. The nice thing about this stuff is that when it's done , it's done. If you get a phone call or need to use the head, and come back to it it's fine. With regular developer, it is still developing until you stop it with a stop bath or fixer. I have pulled the top on this stuff in the daylight and washed it with no fogging, and then fixed it also in daylight. How's that for great stuff. And it's always right, no guesswork. I also use lots of other developers for different things, but this stuff is almost fool proof. Also always pre-wash your film for about 4 or 5 minutes or about 10 fill and dumps, to get rid of the dyes, and this also wets the film for a more even development without any bubble problems. Post some pics soon!</p>

[tomscott]

<p>Well, I finally broke down and ordered some film today, I bought the Arista EDU because it is cheap and I want to get the hang of this whole new thing before I spend too much on film. I bought the diafine. But could not bring myself to buy a Yankee daylight tank. I have just read too many negative commments about them. So. I will either make some of the above mentioned tubes or try my hand at developing in trays in the wee hours of the morn, when I will have little trouble blacking out the bathroom. Thanks too all of you who have given advise or constructive comments, and please feel free to keep them coming. I have never been one to think that a person could learn too much.</p>

[david_f._stein]

<p>Jeff, enjoyed your comments. You obviously had the talent and motivation to make such a rewarding move.</p>