Large Format Printer

[ndj]

<p>I'm currently looking at purchasing a large format printer for photography. Volumes produced will be low, and both color, and B&W will be printed. I will also be purchasing a calibration device/software. I'm looking at a budget of $2500 CDN/$2000US. Any recommendations, or products to stay away from would help tremendously. So far I'm leaning towards a Epson 3800, and Datacolor Spyder 3 Elite.<br>

Thanks in advance,<br>

Neil</p>

[howard_m]

<p>how big is 'large format' ? if you're considering a 3800 (lots of rumors abound about a 3880 w/ vivid magenta coming fairly soon btw), then 17" wide cut sheet only sounds like what you want. After that, you're in the Canon ipf5xxx or 6xxx series or the Epson 48xx or 78xx (big penalty for photo/matte switching though on Epson 48xx). HP Z3200 is a dark horse.</p>

<p>the 17" vs. 24" wide decision is crucial in your analysis.</p>

[ndj]

<p>17" is pretty much the limit of what I'll be printing at this point. As near as I can figure there is no roll paper option for the 3800. That seems to be the main drawback. 24" is just not in the budget at present.<br>

Thanks,<br>

Neil</p>

[howard_m]

<p>the max size of the 3800 w/o a separate RIP is 17x38. Realistically, you're other choice is the Canon 5100.</p>

<p>the nice thing about the 3800 is that itiwll print small too. I often use 4x6 or 5x7 cut-sheet whereas the 5100 I think does 8x10 unless you print multiples or waste paper. </p>

<p>if you need roll paper though, that drives your decision.</p>

[eric_brody]

<p>If you can live without the roll option, and if as you say, volumes will be low, the 3800 is hard to beat. It does not take up a whole room, the quality is superb, and it does 17x22. It may be wise to do some checking on the possibility of a new version, but the current one is rather good. There will always be a new version, but I do understand the frustration of buying something and seeing a new version in a month or so. I have had a 3800 since it came out and print both black and white and color. I printed in the wet darkroom for 40 years and my current prints are better than anything I ever did in the wet darkroom. I agree that having a calibration device is essential for color accuracy, a good monitor helps as well. I use an older Monaco Optix XR and it still seems to work. If you have the money and space, the 7900 is superb. The good news is that the improvements are now getting more subtle from model to model, the bad news is that jumping up in quality is still quite expensive.<br>

Good luck.<br>

Eric</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>you wont see any major difference with or without the vivid ink for color print, and of course nothing change for the bw.. so a 3800 is a excellent option. And i will go with a Eye 1 Display 2 vs a Spider3 elite (not the print version, just the monitor version) ..i just find that for the same price you get a amazing quality and brand you can trust with a E1..but other than that they are pretty similar ; )</p>

<p>The good thing is the print being at 1300$CAN + the Spider3 elite / Eye 1 350$..you got the package for 1650$..way lower than what you originaly plan.</p>

<p>go for it, you wont regret it for sure.</p>

[bruce_watson1]

<p>Wrong terminology. "Large format" is typically associated with sheet film cameras using film over 5x4 inches. Printers are usually called "wide format" and in the extreme "grand format." Wide format typically means 60 cm (about 24 inches) wide and larger. Nitpicky I admit, but it will help you talk to printer people if you use the "correct" jargon.</p>

<p>All that said, if you are looking for a printer in the 16" wide category, it's tough to beat the Epson 3800. HP doesn't have a "Z" printer in this size to compete with Epson's 3800. Canon has something in this size that uses similar technology to their wide format printers but I'm not familiar enough with the Canon line to be able to recommend anything. Can't keep up with everthing.</p>

[JeffOwen]

<p>I have been very pleased with my Canon i9950 but it prints super A3 (13" X 19") with ease so it may not be large enough for your needs.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>"Large Format" for inkjet is an older term; it comes from the pen plotter era's "large format" printers.<br>

<br /> Then a B sized 11x17 pen plotter was not large format; a 24" roll pen plotter was large format.<br /> Today some folks call a 17" wide machine a large format machine too.<br>

<br /> ****In the printing industry; large format is a term used since the 1970's and 1980's with 24 and 36 inch pen plotters; and in the 1990's and today for inkjet machines too; the larger ones.<br>

<br /> One can look at a trade magazine from 1993 and they list and comapare "large format" printers in inkjet; and giant bond/xerox type printers.<br>

<br /> The term "wide format" is more of a newer term for the same thing; more of a trendy newbie term. At trade shows and with 1990's literature "large format" was used alot more. Today say in Digital Graphics, Quick Printing; Repro Report magazine "wide formaT" tends to be the latest buzzword for the same old thing.<br>

<br /> Its sort of like a person who has used film for decades still calls it "film" and newer folks call it analog.<br>

<br /> Its sort of like how all of our scanners use "dpi" and now some folks have an agenda to redefine 3 decade old terms. The 35mm slide scanner here we got in 1988 used "dpi"; or 36" wide color RGB scanner from 2008 uses "dpi" .<br>

<br /> Our 1994 36" wide inkjet was called a "large format" inkjet; so was out 1980's 36" wide pen plotter too; plus our 54 thousand 36" wide "large format" scan/print bond machine from 1992 too; and our 2008 36" wide machine too.<br>

Terms vary though the ages.<br>

"Large format printing" is a catagory in some Yellow Page's too; and not wide format. So is "photo retouching" and not "photoshoping".<br>

<br /> "Large format" is what the term used for ages; before photo.net was born; before photoshop was born; before many users were born. Saying "large format" is the wrong terminology is like saying an 1980's house's "family room" is wrong; heck it is a "great room" today!<br>

<br /> Terms used vary by the industry.<br>

Here Our two ancient 36" bulk feed wide inkjets that still work are called "large format" ; thats what they were called when bought new.<br>

<br /> Look at 120 film; it once was called "brownie film". Look at stop bath; users call it "short stop". Developer is called "soup".<br>

<br /> It really doesnt matter whether the terms "wide" or large" are used; large is just the older term. s</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Here I have an install disc for Microsoft Internet Explorer 2.0. ALL the install info and literature calls it THE internet explorer; not Internet Explorer!; or even IE!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>What has happened is that service bureaus like my shop(s) were around before Photoshop' and did digital scanning and printing. The masses got into digital eons later' book got written; and new terms written; often with no history of what already has been in usage for many decades. A DOS based scan wand from the early 1980's uses "dpi". A 1950's era chap might use "rumpus room" on a house plan; short stop for stop bath!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Look at other photo jargon that has been renamed thru history. The used Nikon F I got in 1962 has a 1.58cm F1.4. The "deal" at F5.6 was called a "FORK" then.; later some folks called it a "prong" then decades later some call the same thing "bunny ears" . When I bought and sold on Yellow Rag shutterbug in the 1970's' ' fork or prong was common. I never heard of bunny ears until the internet</p>

[jackaldridge]

<p>Just got a 3800....you can even get it with a RIP and rebates if you buy before 8/31.<br>

If roll paper is important stick a PVC pipe rack behind the printer to hold the rolls.<br>

Some guy is even making them and selling them on the internet.<br>

You'll still be resticted to certain lengths based on whether you use a RIP or not.<br>

Great printer..all I'll ever need for now :-) (vivd inks or not!).....<br>

Lots of good info on using profiles with the 3800...especially Eric Chans site....<br>

I like the Epson much better than my Canon Pro9500....but that's just my opinion..</p>

[peter_mounier]

<p>I would recommend the Hp Z2100. It's $2800.00 retail but you might be able to trade in a printer if you have one for some credit. Not only is it a great printer for neutral B&W, but it also has a built-in sprectro by Eye1 and is capable of creating custom profiles in minutes for any media. I have a Z3100, its bigger brother, and the colors are great, the printer is reliable, the heads don't clog with light use, and it's a workhorse.</p>

<p>Peter</p>

[andrewknots]

<p>Most of the printers at this range have built in spectrometers.</p>

<p>Start by going to a supplier who does most of the printers you're interested in.</p>

<p>Check out the layout software, and indeed the print job path. Take along some pictures that are very definitely cropped to not be any standard page size. Wide, but not full width, Tall and narrow etc. You might even make up a hand layout that if you could print all the pictures at maximum efficiency would work with a handy mount board cutter.</p>

<p>Ask them to demonstrate laying them out, from general printing, and from within Photoshop. Good layout tools will payback $300 difference in price fairly quickly.</p>

<p>I got a great deal on a Canon ipx6100, but I hate the print software on my Macs --- it insists on having standard cut-paper sizes, even when the roll feed is active, rather than just printing the photo at the size it's been set to, and the so-called layout software will not insert a cut where I want it, or ignore the white areas of the standard cut-sheet pages I've been constrained to `use' to get the pictures into the layout queue.</p>

<p>Anyone know of adequate replacement layout software?</p>

[ndj]

<p>Thanks Folks! I appreciate all the respones. I've ordered a Epson 3800, with the i1 display2 monitor calibration software.<br>

Thanks again,<br>

Neil</p>