Photos being used MORE then expected

[rod_melotte]

<p>OK - I'm goign to dummy this up a bit as you do not need ALL the tiny details. <br>

I am a member of small town organization and we were having an event. They asked to use a photo for some promo tickets which was fine. Then - the Chamber of Commerce ask to use the photo for some posters for a town wise event which was fine. <br>

Now I see that the photo is going on 1000 T-Shirts selling for $10 AND this photo might become a trademark for this LARGE yearly citywide event in future years. This will become THEY major event for the town.<br>

I'm sitting here saying - did I screw myself? I'm really not angry or anything but wondering about rights. Just ignore the "rights" issue? <br>

I'm not even sure what I'm asking but for some reason I see trouble in the future and I'm not even sure what that trouble could be.<br>

Two organizations which, being a small town dislike each other with the same artwork.</p>

<p> </p>

[joe_c5]

<p>I am not a lawyer, and you might need to consult one to be certain.</p>

<p>My understanding, though, is that if you hold the copyright on the photographs, then they do not have any rights unless you explicitly grant them.</p>

<p>I don't know the details of your agreements about the tickets or the posters, but it sounds sloppy of them to be using photos commercially without a license to do so.</p>

<p> </p>

[tomwatt]

<p>Does the contract express your expectations?<br>

Or another way of putting this is... did you have a contract?<br>

Lacking that, you will need an attorney's assistance at the very least. The attempt to trademark your work without your copyright assent is going to hang things up. Have you copyrighted - that is registered the copyright - for the work in question?</p>

[craig_gillette]

<p>Register your copyright. </p>

<p>Then examine/capture any of the contractual or other dealings you've had with the various organizations to be sure everyone is on the same page. While it's typically true that as a copyright owner you have the right to control uses of the images, if you've licensed uses to others in an unclear way, you may have lost at least some of the control over it. If it's all verbal - "Can we use this for the "fair?" "Sure, go ahead, here's the file." and the other group, "May we use this for the ...?" "Go ahead, here's the file." None of you approached it professionally and backed into a potential problem. They might have been expected to discuss licensing, as might you, but it's not uncommon for people to be running these groups that aren't intellectual property professionals. But as the photographer, you need to look out for Number 1 and it really is important for you to be at least somewhat aware of the issues of usage and licensing, especially when a second group comes along. I know of one web information provider who suggests limiting (legal) advice to customers so when they make their mistakes, you are clean or can recover. That may be fine when you can walk away at the end of the job, but you live there.</p>

<p>Yeah, small town ugly. Both think they've got some kind of rights that weren't really well assigned. But neither set up a formal contract or licensed for exclusive uses, etc. Yep, you'll be the bad guy. Especially when they get back to you and you remind them "It's your picture."</p>

[john_h.1]

<p>There's some good points here already. It unclear what your objectives are and figuring that out is important in helping you decide what sort of reaction is appropriate. It doesn't seem like you rely on these groups, or anyone for that matter, for any sort of photography based income so you don't have to worry about alienating customers by asserting your rights but I don't kniow what other things concern you. Also those details you are witholding may be immaterial but sometimes they make a big difference. Take a look at copyright.gov to get an overview. If you do not get the matter resolved and intend to take legal action to enforce rights you need legal help. That ranges from a cease & desist letter to lawsuits which can be a big hassle. Was your permission to use the images a free gift or part of a contract where you might have a claim that it was breached (easier to deal with than infringements) Its not the biggest infringement in the world but they are planning to make some money using your image.</p>

<p>Don't let others use your images without clear usage agreements in the future if you intend to control how your images are used.</p>

[rod_melotte]

<p>I think the problem is that this is a small town (5,000) that has not really had a REAL success story. But with a major motion picture being filmed here and lots of excitement we have sort of taken the ball and NOT dropped it (which is totally strange since then typically drop all balls if you know what I mean).<br>

They are not sure how to handle success and I'm not sure how to handle MY success either LOL. <br>

I've been a photographer all my life selling a photo here and there as the "you must have a good camera" kind of guy and all of a sudden BAM, I'm selling posters, postcards, canvas prints, framed photos getting hired by other business, photos in four newspapers, writing a photojournal in a local newspaper on ANYTHING I want (they said write it like your blog) . . . it's crazy.</p>

<p> </p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Copyright isn't your real issue here; politics and P-R are. This ultimately won't about right or wrong.<br>

Think of this from the other side. It sounds like you don't have a contract and you've been asked for more than one request to use this image and have always casually said yes. Now you want to put on the breaks because you smell cash?<br>

You have 2 choices: You can let it go or you can go after them. I don't see any middle ground here. Once you contact them about rights,etc., you're going to come up the bad guy and you will probably need some legal help to settle this as well. You haven't been firm about anything so far, so they're probably not going to take you seriously without legal representation. Are you prepared to do this? That's your question. Think this through and decide slowly...-Aimee</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Copyright isn't your real issue here; politics and P-R are. This ultimately won't about right or wrong.<br>

Think of this from the other side. It sounds like you don't have a contract and you've been asked for more than one request to use this image and have always casually said yes. Now you want to put on the breaks because you smell cash?<br>

You have 2 choices: You can let it go or you can go after them. I don't see any middle ground here. Once you contact them about rights,etc., you're going to come up the bad guy and you will probably need some legal help to settle this as well. You haven't been firm about anything so far, so they're probably not going to take you seriously without legal representation. Are you prepared to do this? That's your question. Think this through and decide slowly...-Aimee</p>

[Ian Taylor]

<p>Agree with Aimee. What they did isn't right, but are you prepared to take this all the way?<br>

I would chat with them about your concerns and see if something can be worked out, especially with the logo.<br>

I would take it as a lesson. (I had the same one.) On the plus side your photos are obviously good enough for this type of usage. You can probably find more paid work.</p>

[wpahnelas]

<p>so there's a problem? talk to "them" about it, explain that using your photo for commercial purposes without permission/arrangements is just not done. i don't get the feeling they're trying to get over on you -- more like they're kind of simple and it just doesn't register. it's your responsibility to protect your own interests, so don't just sit there. do something.</p>

[craig_gillette]

<p>The "event" and the Chamber of Commerce were going to fight over something eventually. Now it's you. </p>

<p>Although I think that if both groups are told that they have exceeded the original agreements or discussions and need to remember it's your picture, then they can either deal with you individually or separately. At this point, no one has an exclusive license and if the "community" as a whole wants to settle on it, fine. If they both want the images, they are going to have to "share" on this. You aren't Solomon, you can't cut it in half, they can both contract non-exclusively but an exclusive buy-out for one or the other is probably not in the cards - neither will want to pay that kind of money (which is probably anything more than "free"). My guess would be the "event" group probably has less "business acumen" at hand or available than the Chamber but wouldn't bet heavily either way.</p>

[craig_gillette]

<p>They can deal with you separately or together. ;)</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>If you are in the photography business and not doing charity photography,<br>

one way around the issue at hand might be to make up a $1,500 invoice [adding sales tax if you are dealing with a non-sales-tax-exempt organization] and a cover letter saying what a great idea it was to use your photograph on the 1,000 T-shirsts. A fifteen (15) percent use fee should be a fair compromise.</p>

<p>If the invoice is not honored, you have a income tax item in the bad debt category for your 2009 tax return.</p>

<p>If all the shirts sell, and you get paid, you have more than you started with. And be sure to note on the invoice that the 15 percent is for the one batch of 1,500 T-shirts in 2009, not for forever use of your image.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

 

[john_bellenis]

<p>Hey Rod, congratulations on having your image appreciated and used so extensively in your community.</p>

<p>My take is similar to Aimee's. It's a small town and no doubt a small Chamber of Commerce - I'm sure they are unaware of the intricacies of copyright and usage rights and probably did not do anything illegal or unfair knowingly. If photography isn't your primary business I would advise letting it go - it's just one image after all and a small contribution to your town and to this event. So much of town work is on a volunteer and donation basis anyway. I would make it known to the parties concerned that they have acted in error, but in the spirit of cooperation and community you will let it go this time (and maybe ask for a credit line on printed material). This way you avoid any small town unpleasantness and might possibly get some work in the future from the exposure. The reality is that any income from this would be petty minimal but the adverse PR and potential small town acrimony can be pretty far reaching, although legally you would be in the right.</p>

 

[james_black3]

<p>I agree with those who say it's better to ASK them to put a by-line on the bottom of the photo:<br>

© Photo by Rod Melotte<br>

That way, you get lots of credit, you are a good guy. You get more business. If you force the issue, (and this happened to me when I was very young photographer all full of myself), they will stop using your photo and pick some other artwork and they will never use you again for anything.<br>

But for the future, make it clear in writing exactly what they can and cannot do with your photos. Be very specific.</p>