Ebay purchase Regrets? - very limited interest question

[stephane_park]

Sorry to bother everyone with this - this is a non-technical post,

probably of little interest to anyone - stop reading if looking for

useful info.

Well just made my first ebay purchase (a rolleiflex) but I am very

concerned and having buyer's remorse...Item # 1369984097

Yes I wanted one - and yes a F model would be great but its my first

time ever on ebay and I may have gotten a bit overboard (you should

see some of the stuff I was bidding on - leica etc. - thankfully I

did not win...). I did not ask questions (the seller here is a very

reputable person I have NO doubt) - its caveat emptor.

 

Now that the cash is in (it would not have been right to delay

payment just because of my misgivings) - I am a bit worried (again

may or may not be justified but altogether my fault alone) but still

hopeful that I will be able to use this item. Well. if this was a

mistake (it would not be my first) - I will think of it as a leaning

experience....

 

PS - that ebay can be addictive though - I had no idea :)

[andrew_schank]

You might at least postpone feeling bad about it at least until you recieve the camera and put a roll of film through it! It might be a good camera, and if it does nees a bit of work, there are certainly people that can bring it back to perfect working order without having to spend an unreasonable amount of money on it.

 

I have had mixed experiences over the years buying used equipment mail order, both from individual sellers and through ebay-its always a bit of a gamble unless you have a 100% return priveldge. My expectations sometimes exceed the reality of the condition an older camera is actually in. That's why the used camera trade shows were nice--you get get your hands on the stuff and check it out first hand before forking over the cash. Ebay has killed the used camera shows where I live.

[art_haykin]

I've never used e-bay, but have heard a LOT about it, and mostly good, up to recently. With its enormous size (7 million items listed at any one time), abuses are BOUND to set in. There are no good giants. Buying used is chancy enough, without factoring in the pig-in-a-poke element.

[john_van_rosendaal]

If the seller has a good reputation, I wouldn't worry too much. I've bought tons of camera equipment on eBay and have had two unsatisfactory items. I got my money back on both of these. I'm always careful to check references if a seller is relatively new and don't bid on items by sellers with more than two, three negatives.

The real scams on eBay seem to take place around new, expensive equipments (esp. digital SLRs).

I know it can be addictive, but it's actually much better to not bid on anything you want until the last moment, when the real action takes places on eBay.

[jim_reed]

Stephane: Why the remorse? Did the seller not accurately describe the item? Were there defects or problems that should have been disclosed? Or did the item turn out to be not what you wanted or hoped for?

 

If the seller has a return policy, you may be able to return it. If not, consider reselling it yourself on eBay. I resold something on eBay (a double cable release that turned out to be the wrong one -- my mistake), and the new buyer paid more for it than I did in the original purchase.

 

Either way, I hope things work out for the best for you.

[witold_grabiec]

Stephane,

 

No need to worry up front, wait till you get it. It's always good to check the blue book value on collectables, at least you know the ball park figure. My (extensive) ebay experience has been quite good. Condition of anything is subjective, especially so with photo equipment. ALWAYS ask questions before hand. It'll at least give you something to hang on to if item is NOT as described. I also agree with "wait till last moement", as long as you can afford time to watch it as an auction ends. Bidding early is no different than outbidding yourself. You're giving others time to think how much it may be worth to them. Last ONE minute is the time to do it. Doesn't always work (you won't be alone) but increases your chances of getting a better deal. Remember though the BuyItNow options. While most are out of this world, some will give a bargain of a lifetime. Not so long ago there was a Zone VI enlarger for BuyItNow at $1595, it went for $2095 or so.

[NK Guy]

You haven't even found out whether you've been scammed or

have purchased a great used product yet. What do you want us

to do? Making soothing noises?

[solja]

Are you upset because you got stuck in that 'last minute, gotta win' moment and upped your bid from $380 to $405 in those last few minutes? :)

<p>

If so, don't worry about it. It happens, especially when you're new to eBay. The main thing I had to focus on when I first started using eBay was: It's <i>NOT</i> a competition. I <i>DON'T</i> care what that other person is bidding. I know <i>MY</i> price-limit and I <i>WILL NOT</i> go beyond that, regardless.

<p>

I don't know about you, but I would get so obsessed about winning an item that I'd end up paying more than it was worth - and the bad part was I -knew- I was paying too much, but I just wanted to teach that other high bidder a lesson! :)

<p>

Anyway, I'm sure you'll have great fun with your camera. I got my Yashica-MAT LM off eBay for $70 then got a ton of filters and lenses for another $60 and I've been having a blast with it all. I'm sure you'll enjoy your camera and if not, there's always eBay!

[jeff_drew4]

Your buyers remorse is normal. There are some fine dealers who have auctions, though, so some auctions have little risk. I have used ebay many times to buy and sell. 99% of the time I have been rewarded with fair deals both ways. I have also discovered some new friends and have routinely traded off-line as a result.

 

FWIW: on the very negative side I had my seller Ebay ID stolen and hacked 2 weeks ago. Very upsetting! Ebay took 2 weeks to fixit but made it right and I'm back in business and the crook is closed down AFAIK. Inside of 12 hours the thief hacked me, changed all my profile info and launched 3 bogus auctions. Ouch!

[jack_congson3]

I buy and sell on Ebay and I must say that it has matured quite a lot and most sellers who have been in for the last 3 years are very reliable. The key is patience and dicipline. Decide what you want and how much you want to pay and don't get suckered into a bidding war. Look at KEH pricing or other similar online photographic suppliers. Your Ebay bid should be at least 30% or better(less)than the established store pricing.

 

That said, I must say $405 for a rollei 2.8F with Zeiss lens assuming the glass is clear with no fungus is a good buy. But you have one more step to take if you really want to enjoy your purchase. You need to get it cleaned, lubed and adjusted by a Rollei specialist and then get a Maxwell screen.

[robert_davis2]

I've bought a fair bit of stuff from Ebay the last few months. None of the stuff has been in worse condition that described. Most of it was better then the ad claimed. I try and figure out what the item would cost locally or from a reputable store. Subtract shipping from that price. Subtract a fudge figure in case the item is worse then the ad claims [something between 10-30% If it's something that might break two weeks after buying I'll cut that even more]. Then set my max price based on that. Some auctions you'll see prices soar for no good reason and I'll just drop out. Other times nobody will bid and prices will stay lower then they should. I'll stay away from auctions that smell bad. Sellers who don't answer email before the sale aren't likely to afterwards if you have a problem. Ads without pictures. With fishy sounding descriptions. Camera sales from people who seem to sell everything but cameras. I figure if somebody who sells cameras 100% of the time claims it works I'm better off then if somebody who sells designer plates normally claims it works.

 

So far the worst thing to happen to me is one seller who didn't like the ending price and decided to not ship. Considering the ending price over 50% of what I could get the item new for [and I'd save the shipping] I'm not sure what he was hoping for. Other then that one guy was slower shipping the item then I would have liked. Everything else has ranged from good to very good expierences.

[jonathan brewer]

The best thing about e-bay is that it is/has/will continue to force the cost of camera gear as the dealers cut their own throats on occasion by undercutting their own prices by selling on e-bay. e-bay and Robert White among others make this a world market for camera gear.

 

E-bay is fine if you are careful and know what you're are doing, what does that mean? I'm just not buying an expensive hunk of gear, 'as is', don't do it if you like yourself, and exception is something that is relatively inexpensive, filters, grips maybe, and so forth.

 

Extensive feedback with few negatives is a must, and every question you can think of before you bid, if you get no answers, don't bid. The kiss of death for me on a big ticket item is the seller starting out with 'I don't know anything about cameras, but everything seems fine with me, by the way, this is as'. If he doens't know anything about the gear, he can't make a statement one way or the other.

 

The best gear on E-bay is going to come from folks who go overseas and buy it new and then dump it on e-bay, you're relatively safe buying from them, some of them will even give you a warranty.

 

Next is the Docters and Lawyers and other folks who fancy professional gear and have the deep pockets to experiment with this gear as bacically a toy, they soon tire of 'point n shoot' images from a $5000.00 camera/lens outfit and the gear goes on the market damn near new.

 

Just as good as above, are the photographers who baby their gear, although it is hard finding out just who that is over the internet, and look out for the old 'my grandmother just ran two rolls through this Hasselblad and left it in the closet' routine.

 

Bad news is that there are some folks will dribble a camera like a basketball, run over it with a truck a couple of times, use it as a submarine, and then try to sell it as mint.

 

I've been told that these outright liars send out terrible gear knowing that you will demant a refund, that even though your money may be a relatively small sum, this goes into a large account where they collect/have been collecting interest for years.

 

I bought a Mamiya TLR from C***** Camera which they advertised as mint, I bit, for $415.00(they advertised a moneyback guarentee, and warranty), the camera was old, worn, the back was rusted, and there was other abuse, it was a worn out old piece of shit.

 

I demanded my money back immediately, was told that wasn't possible because I had broken the camera, and was getting nothing back. I eventually got a refund, but I paid dearly in stress, anxiety, needless yelling and screaming and needless phone bills.

 

Be careful!!

[david_goldfarb]

By all means set your limit and don't bid over it, but it looks like you probably got a nice camera, so run a few rolls of film through it, try it out, and see how it works. If there's a problem, send it to a Rollei specialist to check it out--usually better than going with whatever service most used camera dealers use. If it works fine, but it's just not for you, then remember that your bid was only slightly more than someone else's, so you can always sell it back on eBay for about as much as you paid, sometimes more, sometimes less.

[thomas_diekwisch1]

I've used ebay quite a lot, usually with good experiences. Out of my 40 - 50 transactions there were only three that I regretted. There was somebody in Lousiana with the code "zebra4" or similar who sold a completely broken Minolta Shift lens as excellent condition. Then there was a store in Germany "Foto Walser" who sold a defect lens and broken screens but never returned my e-mails, and there was a Rollei that was less than mint and that took me another 1K to get up to snuff. But altogether, 90% of my experiences were great. I got things I could have never gotten any other way.

 

Ebay is usually very reliable if you have a look at the feedback prior to purchase. It's still not a guarantee, but it's close. Usually, up to 1% negative feedback is a good standard if you have a seller with lots of sales experience. More than 1% is iffy. Some people complain about Hongkong sellers, but I see some of them with 0 feedback after 500 sales (etefore, amhlee), which is quite a good indicator.

 

The feedback thing is theoretically a great idea provided you have courageous buyers. If you look more closely into the issue you will find that retaliatory feedback is quite common. I.e. if you leave a negative comment about somebody, chances are that this person will also leave negative comments about you. Would you want to ruin your feedback? I guess it depends on the magnitude of the problem.

 

In the recent year, ebay has received some kind of a cult status, at least in my view. It is becoming more and more difficult to get the real bargain. Usually you get what you pay for since there are now so many bidders out there and people who watch ebay on a regular basis. Recently, I was bidding on a Metz flash. I did have my limit, which was slightly under the B&H new price. Eventually, I followed the auction to its end, and the price turned out to be $50 above B&H. And B&H has the warrantee and inexpensive shipping.

 

Most people on ebay are honest. Some ebayers were extremely helpful and have provided additional and rare info on their products. There have been rare experiences of extreme kindness, when a guy from New York bought a new magazine for another one that was defect. With another ebayer I have developed a scientific exchange. In another case, a conversation on rare Doctar lenses has evolved. Another one has submitted a job application, even though I haven't hired him as of yet. Ebay has become of age. It's a community with goods and bads like everything else in life. 10% failure rate is not so bad after all. Just don't bid over the new price...

[stephane_park]

Thank you all for the informative, and yes, supportive comments.

I think what kept me up was not so much this particular purchase but the realization at my potential to engage in this as a competition, where once a target is selected, I wanted just to prevail...silly:) I was worried at potentially wasting everyone's time with this post - I think the comment "what do you want us to do at this time" above is a very fair one.

 

I really appreciate all of you who have shared your experiences and indeed, believe me the few encouraging comments on the potential of this potential purchase will help me sleep better tonight. Its not that the amount involved is so significant, but the idea that I had acquired this so impulsively and the fact that all possible defects and issues which did not seem relevant at the time I typed enter were haunting me, well... This is also somewhat atypical of how I usually make these equipment decisions... As for being careful with potentially unscrupulous folks - I will also pay attention. Though for now the one person I should be most careful of is probably myself.

 

Anyhow, I will wait to receive it - if necessary, and warranted, I will try to get a CLA and possibly cosmetic repairs (is that even possible?) and be more mindful to control my urges on line in the future. I do love the TLRs - having handled GXs of co-workers here.

 

The problem with repeated purchase is that I have to potentially lie to my wife afterwards... She still believes my M7 costs about 1K with the 35m summicron (though, at times, I also believe she knows about the misrepresentation and goes along with me).

 

Thank you all - hey, this truly is a "community"!

 

Many thanks,

[stemked]

I have used ebay a lot and been stung a couple of times, but for the most part I've been happy. Really keep an eye on those ratings. One of the times I got stung I read through the bad reviews and the seller's counter-arguements. I was convinced and got stung. My wife won't go near it anymore and I take much more conservative approaches toward it.

 

The best rules of ebay (as a buyer) are to determine what is the ABSOLUTE most you are willing to spend for the item. If you can DO NOT POST UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE. Sellers hate this for obvious reasons, they want to see a product slowly rise. But if your purpose is to get the item at the best possible price a long bidding war will just drive up the cost. I've actually seen lenses sell USED at TWICE the cost of a new one just because they played another game; they figured they would put an unreasonably high bid at the last minute so that they would be sure to get the item. This is fine but if two people do the same thing you get some crazy bids. I have to admit to buying a new book at AMAZON spending a month with it and selling it (for $10 more than I bought it new. Go figure.

 

I suggest first looking at keh's prices, figure that they are honest and then determine that any ebay item is only worth (to me) 3/4 what I could get it at KEH. Good rule of thumb.

[jerry_lehrer]

Stephane

 

I will get you off the hook with the seller AND with your wife. I will be willing to buy that Rolleiflex from the seller. Just notify

him that I will pay for it and to have him send it to me instead of you. You will sleep easier that way.

 

Jerry

[don_james]

The seller appears to be reputable (only 10 negatives in over 2000 auctions). My big concern would be this statement: "I really don't much about cameras ...". He's being honest (another good sign), but it's a red flag if you're buying an expensive item, because he's admitting he can't tell for sure if it's working properly.

 

Regardless, you have a contract with the buyer that you should fulfill. Hopefully the camera will be in good shape, and you'll have gotten quite a bargain. If not, a CLA might be in order, or you can sell it as a parts camera and consider the loss a learning experience.

 

Personally, I can stop buying on Ebay any time I want; I'm not addicted. No, really I can!

[audidudi]

<P>When you see a lens bid up to twice the new price, don't assume that it actually sold for that price. While buyers often get carried away when bidding on items, when the time comes to make the payment, they usually get wise quickly and renege on the deal. I've had buyers do this to me several times over the past four years and I'm sure I'm not alone in having experienced this.</P>

 

<P>As for <I>buying</I> items on eBay, I've reached the point where I'm no longer willing to pay more than $200 for anything -- that's the maximum I'm willing to put at risk these days -- and even then, my bid price has to represent a smoking deal or I'll simply pass and wait until the next one of whatever it is comes up for auction.</P>

 

<P>For example, after bidding for months on practically every 75mm Mamaiya Universal lens that was listed for auction and losing because I was not willing to pay more than $200, I finally picked one up recently -- <I>with</I> the auxilliary finder! -- for just $149.95. Clearly, deals <I>can</I> still be found on eB*y but only if you're willing to wait until they show up...

[nolan woodbury]

I think Jeffery briefly touched on a point that I'd like to share. I admit that I got a bit carried away when I first started using it, and certainly participated in a few "competitive" auctions as well. While I mix purchases between eBay, private sellers, and favorite camera shops (online or otherwise) I still feel eBay is a great resource for that hard-to-find or rare item that may never make it to the camera store counter or web list. Sometimes that oft used line "I don't know much about cameras" is a real plus! My point? Know what you want, what it is worth, and get really good at studying grainy .jpegs.

[q.g._de_bakker]

"I don't know much about cameras" from someone selling them by the hundreds simply means "don't complain if this thing is broken". Same thing as "i don't have the right battery, so i can't test the thing".

[jay_.]

I've had some excellent experiences selling and buying on e-Bay. 99% of people are honest and ethical. The bad experiences I've had have all been as a seller, and they weren't all that bad. Mostly it's been people who backed out of the deal after they won. One time I had a body which I'd described very clearly as being 9+ with a small ding in one spot. After the auction, the winner e-mailed me (in very broken English)asking me to make sure it was "in very mint shape for collector", whereupon I wrote back re-emphasizing (in as simple English as possible)the flaws, that it was *not* collector-quality, and that the auction description stated so. He said okay, I sent it to him (in the far east)and he then e-mails me back saying he's sending back "your poor camera" but assuring me he wouldn't leave me "bad feedback"!!! So far I haven't gotten it back, though. One thing selling on e-Bay has taught me is respect for what full-time camera dealers go through to earn their money ;>)

[don_james]

I've never run into an Ebay seller who sold cameras "by the hundreds" and also claimed not to know much about cameras. If I did I would avoid his auctions. I have dealt with many reputable sellers who do a lot of business on Ebay but only occasionally sell a camera. I ask lots of questions and factor the added risk into my bid.

[richard_deyoung]

I have purchased dozens of TLR's from EBAY with excellant results. I wanted to collect all of the American made TLR's, which I did, and this would have been impossible with out EBAY. My only dissapointing experience was a recent purchase of a Bolsey C TLR. When I got it the shutter would not cock. After exhausting all the resources I could find we collectively believed the shutter was at fault. I contacted the seller and he immediately offered to refund my money. We agreed on reducing the cost by 50% since I wanted the camera as a collector. Results, a happy customer and a feeling of fair treatment.

Richard DeYoung

[jonathan brewer]

Also watch out for a Manfred Schmidt who also does business as Karla60631, and as ...............Welcome to

 

Manfred Schmidt

 

Collectible Cameras and

Accessories .......He sent me a hood that was advertised as mint, which had a third of it cracked off! A piece of metal not native to the original hood has been sloppily screwed to the hood leaving a gap you can put your finger throught! I demanded my money back, his con is you didn't send him back the same item. He's out of Chicago.