8mm Film to DVD transfer (Do it yourself)

[stan_jelavic]

Hi, I have my own setup with macro lenses and extenders. I used both Olympus Pen (1280x720) and Canon Mark II (1920x1080) cameras in video mode and direct capture (projector into camera) and did not see that big difference.

The final video is in avi format and the lower res video covers only 1/2 of my monitor screen but I blow it up by 2X to cover the whole screen. With HD I do not have to blow it up. I expected more pixel noise with the lower res due to the 2X magnification but did not see that much with bright scenes. With darker scenes, the difference is more pronounced. So that is another factor to consider, it is not only the quality of the original but also the pixel noise that you will be magnifying when watching the lower res final video. Not sure if the difference is worth the $$$ though.

[ric1]

<p>In the UK you transfer film to dv at the ratio 16.667fps : 1/50th shutter speed. You need a three blade projector. In the USA the speeds are different. Over to you.</p>

[yonatan_de_bellingham]

<p>Greetings,<br>

I want to thank all the helpful advice on how to transfer 8 and supper 8 to digital. I have put it to use to impressive effect. However, I have run into difficulties that have stalled my project, which I was hoping you could help me with. </p>

<ol>

<li>I bought and am using a Panasonic hdc-sd40m camcorder to capture the film. </li>

<li>The camera came with Panasonic software “HD writer LE 1.0”</li>

</ol>

<p>Now I can get the one film I recorded to play its card via Veracast on my HDTV or to play from my laptop, I had installed the Panasonic software through to a USB projector. What I cannot do is to get DVDs I have burned the movies to, using the Panasonic software, to play on other computers. </p>

<p>My questions are: there a way for me to upload the recorded video to my computer in a nonproprietary format that I may edit and burn to DVD using non Panasonic software? <br>

I have noted a loss in picture quality from DVD as oppose from the direct source when showing pictures. How does one get a burned DVD which has equal quality to that of the computer or card, plugged into the HD screen? </p>

<p>Thank you in advance,<br>

John B. </p>

[ric1]

<p>I haven't got HD software so I can't advise on the HD. If you are videoing your 8mm footage you need to have your cam wired to your computer by usb, firewire or however your cam prefers it. That way you are streaming what your cam sees direct to your hard drive.</p>

<p>Experiment. Once you have established 'direct capture' as above then you are moving in the right direction.</p>

<p>Apart from that a little supporting information might help others to assist you. Like what country you are in, what shutter speed have you set your cam at, what speed (frames per second) is your 8mm film playing at, and so forth?</p>

[t_r7]

<p>Instructions convert 8 mm to Mini DV:<br>

1) Connect the 8mm camcorder to the RF modulator with an S-video cord.<br>

2) Connect mini DV camcorder to the RF modulator in the output Audio/Visual cord (red, white, yellow).<br>

3) Set mini DV camcorder to VCR setting and press "record".<br>

4) Set 8 mm camcorder to "play" =)</p>

[ric1]

<p>And all this time i've been juggling with single surface mirrors and rheostats - <em>duh!</em></p>

<p>Happy Holidays!</p>

<p>Ric</p>

[betty_meler]

<p>Hi, I've been reading everyones input with great interest because I now have possession of all of my parent's 8mm home movies as well as my own super 8mm ones I took of my kids! I am a novice to this and do not profess to know much of anything in this field, however my goal is to transfer all of them to dvd, as well! I'm not planning to do this as a business, as it appears some of you are doing, however I also do not want to send these out to someone whom I don't know, and risk them getting lost or damaged! Based on what I've read so far, I'm thinking that the way to go, is to purchase one of the "8mm transfer boxes" they are selling on ebay now for around $100 and an 8mm projector. I believe I have everything else! First let me tell you what I do have and you can tell me if it's anything I can use in this process or should replace it. I obviously have a computer (we have a few and my husband is an IT person, so he or my daughter whom is also very computer literate, will be taking care of that end of the spectrum. My daughter also has the "vegas" program, I don't know if that is something that can be used in this process, but I'm throwing it out there. My daughter also has a Sony 12 mega pixel cypershot camera and I have a Sony Handicam. We also have dvr's, burner's etc! I also have a Sanyko Super 8 sound movie projector (and camera) which I purchased in 1980 which still works great, just tried it out a few months ago. So, from what I can see, all I need besides the transfer box I plan to get on ebay, for $100, is an 8mm movie projector, to transfer my parents movies. Therefore, my questions- !. which is the best 8mm projector to get for this sort of thing or 2. should I get a dual 8 projector with variable speed, to transfer my super 8's as well? Also, will what I have and the "transfer box" be enough to do an adequate job, or should I look into replacing something, or doing it some other way? Thanks for you help, and as I've said, I've already learned a lot from reading all the comments, but like I said, I'm a novice, so please don't get too technical, as I'm having trouble understanding what 3 blades vs 5 blades and all that means. One other thing, I obviously do not want to put out a lot of money for this project, because it will be a one time thing, I'm hoping my biggest expenses to be th "transfer box for around $100 and an 8 mm projector, for about the same or less.</p>

[stan_jelavic]

<p>Hi Betty,<br>

Before you go ahead and purchase another projector I suggest you try the transfer with your existing super 8. You did not state which model you have. It is very important that the projector has variable speed which allows you to minimize flicker. I would try it with a white screen or wall first. Project your movie onto the wall or large white paper and record it with your sony camera which can be positioned above the projector. Set the speed of the projector for minimum flicker in the camera. This way you do not have to spend any extra money up front. Keep in mind though that this type of capture is not high quality. The colors will look washed out and the final video will not be in very sharp focus, but that is ok for some folks. BTW - the transfer boxes are a waste of money in my opinion, but maybe the newer ones are better from what I used a while back.<br>

Hope this helps,<br>

Stan </p>

[betty_meler]

<p>Stan,<br>

Thank you for the advice, however the projector I own is a Sankyo Sound 500 which probably won't do me much good, since it does not have variable speed on it. Therefore, I'm considering getting a super 8/8mm projector that will hopefully handle both. I've been hesitant there, as I've read that it's better to have seperate projectors, because the combination projectors do not have spockets which can cause some trouble. However the combination 8mm/super 8 that I've narrowed it down to are-a Chinion 2000GL, Bell & Howell 456A, Anscovision GAF 688, Sears 9270<strong> </strong>Revere, Bell & Howell Lumina II QX80 or a Chinion Whisper. Do any of these work better than the other or is there something better than these? I've noticed 3 blades pop up a lot in topic's, do any of these have 3 blades?<br>

I figure I will probably do a lot of experimenting, once I get all the right equipment, and I'm actually very interested in your "direct method" of projecting into the camera. Does this just require the removal of the projector lense, or is it nessesary to purchase extra's for the camera or projector? Also, are you doing it frame by frame with this method? I'm not sure if I want to get that deep into it, since I've got over 50 reels to process, but I would like to get the best quality possible as well.<br>

I noticed you have a book out which appears to discribe how to do everything, and I'm thinking of purchasing it, but is it written so that a novice can understand it, or do you need to know all the jargon? I'm sure I can figure it out if the terms aren't too technical, as I've already picked up a few things just reading everone's comment's here, but if you have to know a lot about camera's already, it's probably over my head at this point. <br>

Again that's for the help</p>

[stan_jelavic]

<p>Hi Betty,<br>

I have been using the Chinon Whisper projector with super 8mm film for the past few years and am happy with it. The projector has a switch to change from 8 to super 8. I do not have experience with the other models that you listed but possibly some other forum members may be able to help you here. The Chinon Whisper model does have 3 blades and motor speed control which will help you synchronize the projector and the camera and reduce flicker if you plan doing the transfer at full speed. The projector does not have sound, so if any of your super 8 reels have sound you will have to record it separately from video and then combine it back. The direct projection definitely requires more work and know how and it is covered in my book, but I suggest try the simple method first with the screen and then go from there.<br>

Regards,<br>

Stan</p>

[david_opdenhoff]

<p>I too am on a limited budget and am going the project on wall and video capture. I have a variable speed ELMO dual 8 projector and a JVC Everio camera. I noted in a previous post that I should turn all auto functions off on the camera. Shutter set to 1/60th, and have no flicker, I do have occasional "over exposed" scenes. The focus is fine. I am projecting on a professional movie screen with my image about 6" square. By ALL auto functions does it mean ALL? Any suggestions on setting the manual settings on the camera. </p>

[ric1]

<p>It depends on the cam. You can hold a frame (care not to melt it) and focus on that with cam's auto focus, hold it, switch & lock to manual focus when it's sharp - then you've fixed the cam focus & don't need to touch it any more.</p>

<p>But tell more please - what country are you in, and why 1/60th precisely?</p>

<p>You will lose some definition capturing on the bounce but you can still get some nice captures. I'm working on a new (budget) aerial transfer unit but will say no more until I have some results.</p>

[kathy_toth]

<p>I have really enjoyed reading the posts on this subject. I have recently been given boxes and boxes of family movies ( 8mm and Super 8) dating to the Stone Age. (Well, it feels like that....). I was looking for the best method to do this myself for a minimal cost. After reading all the posts, however, I am beginning to think it would be worth my time (and money) to invest in a DVDirect and a Cinemate 20. My plan would be to use my family movies for my learning curve, and then move ahead with doing others. I currently have a good demand for my ProShow Producer Slideshows, and could see adding this as an additional service. If I am thinking of heading this way, what advice do those of you already doing this have for me? I appreciate your advice and suggestions.<br>

Kathy</p>

[ric1]

<p>Hi, Cinemate 20 looks like an aerial transfer unit, it should work; you can build your own for a fraction of the cost however. Capturing film is tricky but it can be done. This type of unit will capture the 'cine nature' of your footage; digital frame-by-frame captures can be much steadier and these units are more expensive. Pro transfers are often thought to be of the frame-by-frame method. Transfer requires a great deal of time and dedication so it becomes something of a hobby in the end, a fascinating hobby. A lot of people prefer to send their film away to have it digitalised by someone else, it's different strokes for different folks ultimately.</p>

[kathy_toth]

<p>Thanks, Ric, for your comments. But you left me with a confused look on my face. If you were in my position, where would you start? Am I better off to figure out how to build my own aerial transfer unit, or look into a digital frame by frame method. Cost is, of course, a big consideration, but not a deal-breaker in any case. This is not to say I can spent $thousands on a start up unit. But if I'm going to do this, I do want to do it right. If I were to go the way of the frame by frame idea, where do I start with that?<br>

Thanks for your comments,<br>

Kathy</p>

[betty_meler]

<p>Hi, I finallly got my 8mm projector and when I went to test it, of course the film gathers up and breaks off since it's so old. (Luckily I chose to use an old popeye cartoon to test with rather than a home movie) Anyway, I had heard about some various ways to clean and lubricate the film, so I sent away for some silicone cleaning cloths, which I used on a strip of the cartoon, and tried running it through again, and it worked perfectly! It also seemed to bring the film back to a healthier looking state! However, when I recieved the cloths I noticed they were the type sold for cleaning guns and reels (it actually states this on the package) Tne reason I did not buy a bottle of "filmgaurd" is because I had read it is not safe to use on home movies which you want to preserve, and that it was meant for the movies that are shown in theaters and then discarded after several uses. Sooo, before I get carried away and start cleaning (and possibly ruining) home movies, can anyone give me some educated advice on these wipes and the filmgaurd?</p>

[stan_jelavic]

<p>Hi Betty,<br>

I used filmrenew and it seems to work ok.<br>

<a href="http://moviecraft.tripod.com/supplies.html">http://moviecraft.tripod.com/supplies.html</a><br>

See also: <a href="http://www.film-center.com/clean.html">http://www.film-center.com/clean.html</a><br>

Be careful not to put too much of chemical because it can cause spots on the film. Do two passes. First clean and libricate and then dry by using clean dry wipes (pro-line pro-pads or something similar).<br>

Hope this helps,<br>

Stan</p>

<p> </p>

[ric1]

<p>Kathy, sorry to confuse. I can only give you detailed information on aerial transfer because this is the method I use. All the bits & pieces you need are DIY store or on the Bay. As for frame-by-frame, I daresay computer buffs can do this - it is well within the realms of what can be done by the enthusiast. Otherwise you'd be looking at something like a DV8 Sniper HD or sending your reels out to be done by someone else. PM me if you want more on DIY aerial transfer units.</p>

[betty_meler]

<p>Stan,<br>

Thank you very much for the links, I found them to be very informative and useful, and saved them for future reference. I'm still curious as to the products that this website <a href="http://8mm16mmfilmscollectibles.com/supplies.htm">http://8mm16mmfilmscollectibles.com/supplies.htm</a> is promoting ie-the "gun" clothes and goo gone (at the bottom of the page) have these products been tested on 8mm film by anyone? Btw, I will probably invest in the filmrenew, if no one can backup this site's claims. <br>

One other bit of advice I need- does anyone know of any places that still develop old 8mm/super 8 film? And, would it even be worth while to try to do so, with film that's obviously at least 25-35 years old? I had heard that Ritz camera still might, but when my husband took it in, they didn't even know what it was. Yes, I guess you could say I procastinate sometimes! </p>

[george_siougas]

<p>Dear friends,<br>

I would like to transfer my father's old 8mm films to DVD and I don't know which method to use... I can understand that the cheaper is to project to a piece of paper but I hate the keystone effect.. I prefer to use a kind of a telecine device but I don't know which is better: the ones with a flat screen or the ones with a condenser lens?<br>

I've read mixed comments about them but I can understand that the flat screen type is easier to align, but the condenser lens type gives better quality transfer since it provides an aerial capture. Just to be clear to what I've found in the market:<br>

Condenser lens type:<br>

<img src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqJ,!gwE9VfU7gVbBPctk-R+OQ~~60_12.JPG" alt="" width="500" height="500" /></p>

<p>Flat screen type:<br>

<img src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqUOKm4E5BdJF4qtBOU)(qvudQ~~48_12.JPG" alt="" width="500" height="436" /></p>

<p>I also couldn't clarify which is better to the hot spot problem... Are there any other advantages between the two I should take into account?</p>

<p>I've also found some telecine boxes, but are very used.. Are they better?:<br>

<img src="http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqR,!i4E8W!qnkOQBPPYM6lwug~~60_12.JPG" alt="" width="500" height="375" /><br>

While on the subject of the new / used devices, I would really like the flat screen type of the above photo, since it is the only which is new. Their site is:<br>

<a href="http://www.sharplesmedia.com/">http://www.sharplesmedia.com/</a><br>

Their advertisment is very good with a lot of (and only...) advantages!<br>

They say "anti-glare", but is the condenser lens type better in this respect?<br>

They say "without hot spots and image washout"; is it or not the condenser lens better to these? I think the condenser lens type would give lesser image washout being an aerial capture; as for the hot spots, I really don't know as I said above...<br>

They also say "First Surface (Front Surface) Mirror"; OK, I already know that this is good!<br>

Anyway, since whatever I buy will cost me a lot of money (shipping to Greece costs a lot), I would like any opinion about any other disadvantages of each type/method I can't imagine...<br>

Thank you all in advance!</p>

[ric1]

<p>The top example you can build yourself for a fraction of the cost of whatever the companies will charge you. It's just a single-surface mirror and a large powerful magnifying glass lens. This will give you an aerial transfer. What the seller doesn't tell you, in either case it seems, is that you will need:</p>

<p>a) a projector which has a variable speed control (to eliminate flicker)</p>

<p>b) a less powerful and diffused lamp to eliminate 'hot spot'</p>

<p>b) a camcorder with shutter speed control, or a shutter speed which matches or will synch with a speed setting on your projector.</p>

<p>A more direct way to capture film to dv is to add a macro-reverse lens to your cam (turning it into a microscope) and video your film straight off the film gate. Once you have the capture you can turn it right way round in your edit software. You will need to experiment until you get the result you want. You will still need a variable speed projector and cam which synchronises cine : dv shutter speeds.</p>

<p>Here's an example in Super 8. This is oldish film, rather 'moth eaten' but because it was damaged in processing, however the good bits, without holes in them, give you some idea of what can be achieved by the home user on a DIY basis:</p>

<p><a href="

[george_siougas]

<p>Thank you for your answer! Before I asked all these I had made my test:<br>

a) my projector has variable speed control (Canon Cine Projector S-400)<br>

b) my camcorder, well actually DSLR (Canon 550D in Europe or T2i in America), has full manual settings (not only for shutter speed)<br>

Projecting at a wall and capturing gave me very good results (camera at 1/60 and projector at around 20fps) with absolutely no flicker. Isn't that enough as flickering testing is concerned? Or maybe using a more quality method than the wall projection will show me any flicker left? Oh, by the way, I had the camera connected to a TV for better (than its LCD screen) testing of the (absense of) flicker.<br>

I used the original projector's lamp, but I imagine you are saying that the "wall method" doesn't shuffer from hot spot, am I right?<br>

I also eventually think that the 1st method (aerial transfer) should be better quality than the flat screen; but is it so much more difficult? I've heard of the need of at least 10-12x optical zoom. My DSLR's lens is a Canon EF-S 15-85 (which is actually a 24-135, since 550D/T2i is a crop camera with an 1.6x factor). Would it be enough?<br>

Which of all the methods (1st, 2nd, 3rd, wall, macro-reverse lens) is better to the hot spot problem, in case I don' want to modify the projector? To the overall quality?<br>

Could you please give me a macro-reverse lens example? I've only found macro-reverse rings in ebay to put your lens in your camera the other way round... Could this work with my lens above?<br>

Thank you very much again, it's not that I'm bored to test myself all of the above... It's because I'm trying not to spend a lot of money only to find out that a specific method is crap and have to spend again... Thanks and I'm hoping for an answer from you again wich hopefully will help other members as well!</p>

[stan_jelavic]

<p>Hi George,<br>

If you are getting no flicker on your tv connected to the camera then I think it is pretty reasonable to assume that the aerial capture will have low flicker. It is still possible that the areal capture flicker will be worse than screeen projection since the video is more saturated. Although you are saying that you see no flicker at all, it is still possible that you have some but do not see it with fast moving frames. <br>

Yes, the aerial capture is more complex to set up and you will need to use an led lamp for that because the original projector lamp is just way too bright. Another advantage of the led lamp is that it runs cool so that you can run the film slower or frame by frame without danger of burning the film. <br>

As Rick suggested the easiest way of getting the aerial capture is by using a macro lens. I actually would not recommend reverse lens method because you ar pushing the lens limits and could get image distortions in the corners. But you never know. For that method you will need a reverse macro adapter.<br>

A better way in my opinion is to get the macro lens. I use a 100mm FD macro with extension tubes and a FD/EF adapter for my MarkII. FD macro lenses are still available and are very reasonable cost, whereas EF macro lenses are very expensive. If interesetd, let me know and I can send you the macro lens calculations for your camera.</p>

 

[ric1]

<p>Hi George,<br>

As Stan said basically. The way to see if you have eliminated flicker is to monitor your capture on a CRT not a flat screen, flat screens disguise flicker. Wall captures will not necessarily eliminate 'hot spot'. Wall captures will slightly distort your imagery [key stone effect] & lose you definition, possibly making your result more contrasty than the original. Here's a picture of the reversed lens on my Canon MV830i. You can get virtually any reverse ring on the Bay. Even though my cam is solid state with no external moving parts I still support the macro extension just in case. Note the white perspex lamp house screen & low wattage bulb [15/25W] in place of the much more powerful projector bulb. Be very careful with electronics - unplug the projector whenever you are working on it. Hope this helps?</p>

<p><a href="http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/r_i_c_2007/8mm%20transfer%20unit%202012-/IMG_6433.jpg">http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p32/r_i_c_2007/8mm%20transfer%20unit%202012-/IMG_6433.jpg</a></p>

[betty_meler]

<p>Hi again, Well after finally getting moved into our new place, I started setting up to begin transferring my parent's old home movies. Problem is, when I went to eject the tape from my Sony Handicam, I couldn't get it to close again. Since it sounds like a few others also use these to do their transfer, has anyone else experianced this? Is there an easy or semi easy fix, or am I looking at needing to replace it? The rest of the camera works, and I'm still able to record to the card, but I have several tapes that I'd at least like to get the stuff transferred off of. Thank you!</p>

<p> </p>