ric1

<p>Yes thanks, I saw that article earlier. The Angenieux comes with a C mount converter, I can only assume it converts to pre-Reflex days. I double checked by attaching my regular Pan Cinor zoom and focussing on an object then comparing both the zoom angled viewer and the Bolex prism view - they were both in agreement, so it's definitely the Angenieux viewer which is out.</p> <p>Trouble with the Pan Cinor zoom / H16 arrangement is that it is impossibly heavy to use for hand-held shots, great for tripod.</p>

<p>Hi,</p> <p>I have a zoom 17-68mm Angenieux lens with C mount adapter for my 16mm Bolex Reflex H16. The lens on its own is compatible with the camera and gives sharp focus. The lens has a right-angle viewer which works fine. However, when an object is in focus through the Bolex viewer it is out of focus through the Angenieux viewer and vice versa.</p> <p>Why should this be so please? I can only guess that there is a discrepancy at the film gate?</p> <p>Thanks</p> <p>Richard</p> <p>17-68mm Angenieux lens with C mount adapter ~</p> <p>http://www.projectionniste.net/upload/images/1351432983-09.jpeg</p>

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p> <p>I was also wondering if I could 'set' the Sekonic by the Gossen?</p>

<p>Yes thanks I am shooting movie with hand-held light meters, and I have the manuals ;)</p>

<p>Thanks guys,</p> <p>Finally got the Sekonic to f/s mode but the read-out was nuts compared to my Gossen 6 - guess I was born an analogue boy! I will stick to the Gossen and put up with the teeny fps ring, it actually serves me pretty well ;)</p> <p>Yes, I remember the March post but I was going to use fixed lenses at some point, so the zoom lens light limitation wouldn't apply. </p> <p>What is the best, recommended light meter for cine camera usage please. The Gossen is brilliant but not always that easy to scan in the field due to the squeezed fps values in the middle of the dial.</p>

<p>Hi,</p> <p>How do I set up the L-358 for fps please? I have followed the manual but where f/s should appear on the led display I only get an 'm' or an 's' then it cycles round again.</p> <p>There are also micro switches in the back of the meter, what is the default setting for these please or is there a certain setting which will give me fps?</p> <p>I have posted on this topic before but cannot find a 'my previous posts' tab to get back there.</p> <p>Many thanks,</p> <p>Ric</p>

<p>Thanks, that is very good news because my lowest speed of 8fps is roughly half my normal film speed of 16&2/3, so it should make transferring the result to my computer okay.</p> <p>I take it the primes mean I can meter the night shots at asa200 straight?</p>

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p> <p>Not quite there yet, I intend to tone the footage.</p> <p>I may become a regular here because the only colour film I can find is asa 200 & I want to shoot some night time fairground scenes with it. I want trail effects which will mean allowing more light into the camera, how might I achieve this please?</p> <p>Night shots possibly means I can dispense with the all the filters I'm using, even at double the film speed. I'd be using thumb-sized fixed lenses, so I shouldn't be losing any light to the optics as I do with the enormous Pan Cinor zoom.</p>

<p>Hi,</p> <p>Developed film (first stage) the exposure is much improved after following your advice, thank you.</p> <p><img src="http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag110/r_i_c_236/Netley_Panorama1_zpsprygivcr.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p> <p>My current film still on the Bolex is 100% experimental - even if I were convinced I had the exposure right. When I have processed the footage I will shoot a straight 100' using both meters, Gossen & Sekonic, then compare results. I have a lot of confidence in the Sekonic already, indoors it is simplicity itself to operate (touch wood), in the field anything can happen of course. It has been a long haul to calibrate the zoom to the camera but I am going to stick with it until I get consistent results.</p> <p>At some stage I am going to need some fixed reflex lenses as well - for informal, hand-held filming, and I guess only the vintage lenses made for reflex H-16's will do? I have used c-mount video lenses on the Bolex but you can never be sure whether they are <em>exactly</em> right for the flange depth on the lens socket.</p> <p>The advantage of a video lens for me is that you can close the diaphragm to zero, so do fade outs & ins.</p>

<p><em>Update:</em> it's working - I got the ISO at 20 and the jog wheel is allowing me to run up and down the speeds till I come to 1/30, then the Sekonic computes the f-stop. <em>It works!!</em> :D</p> <p>Next question - are we sure ambient is the way to go for landscape photography / motion picture filming please? For example, how could I 'ambient light' a mountain range? Extreme example perhaps but it illustrates my unease abandoning reflected for ambient metering. I took two reading for an outdoor subject today, one ambient, one reflected - same subject - and they were quite different.</p> <p>Many thanks btw :)</p>

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p> <p><br /> What confuses me is that I'm working with a fixed frame/shutter speeds of 16fps & 1/45 respectively. I have frozen the ISO at 25 (or 20 as you suggest) but I cannot fix the shutter speed at 1/45 or 1/30. Which is what I want - the ISO/ShSpeed/Ap triangle - because then the Sekonic ISO+ShSpeed would tell me which <em>aperture</em> to set: which is what I want.</p> <p>I just re-set the ISO to 20, no worries.</p> <p>So given that 1/30 sh speed & ISO 20 must be static for me, is there no way I can lock these values on the Sekonic to determine my aperture? Otherwise the ambient light will be telling me to constantly re-set my shutter speed to match an optimal light/ap/ISO triangle, expecting me to modify my shutter speed of 1/30, which of course I cannot do?</p> <p>Sorry, this is a learning curve for me! :)</p> <p>Wait up - the jog wheel was locked - game changer!! :-o</p> <p>photo.net/filters-bags-tripods-accessories-forum/00H3au</p>

<p>Thanks, the ISO no problem, I set that to 25 in about half a minute after studying the manual. My problem is, is that I need to set my f.p.s at 16 or my speed at 1/45 or thereabout. How do I do this please? The manual just says <em>depress mode button to select ambience then revolve jog wheel beyond 8000 then you will find fps values,</em> by my jog wheel goes from about 60 to 250 then back to 60 again, round & round in circles - f/s, fps, s or m characters never showing on the lcd display.</p> <p>Been at this for about 2 hours now.</p>

<p>Sekonic L-358</p> <p>Help.</p> <p>How do you set for f/s film speed please - no matter how many times I depress the Mode button and revolve the Jog Wheel all I get are 'T' values, the character f/s does not appear, (neither 's' for seconds).</p> <p>Seems to be defaulted to 'T' values - how can I find the corresponding f/s and 's' values please?</p> <p>Apart from that it seems to work :)</p>

<p>Thanks Craig,</p> <p>I use a variable ND on the lens with a minimum value of ND2. The filter slot in the Bolex now has an empty filter holder in it. I use the variable ND filter to allow me to fade out shots and make lap dissolves, since I have no variable shutter angle control on this 56 model, produced in 58. Once upon a time there was a variable diaphragm made to compensate for the lack of variable shutter, but I have never seen one available and in any case, I doubt it would fit the 17-85mm zoom. Prior to the filter I made lap dissolves with my hand over the lens :-o</p>

<p>Thanks Andrew,</p> <p>Think I got there but will be crying in my beer when I see the footage if I haven't :D</p> <p>a) I shoot with an ND2 reducing the speed of my asa 100 film to 50 - otherwise I'm off the aperture scale.<br> b) There is a 0.25 light loss due to mirror-prism plus 0.8 of a stop due to ‘T’ value of zoom. These two factors taken together effectively lose me another stop, so my film is rated at asa 25 on any meter. This should get me a reasonable exposure. This was the setting I used last weekend. I am still going to sacrifice 100' of film to exposure experimentation after I have processed the current project though, results should be interesting. </p> <p>Still trying to get my head round using fractions of a second instead of fps because it is so novel. But using fractions would be kinder on the eye with the Gossen because they are more spread out around the edge of the dial (am long sighted).</p> <p>This site tells me at 16fps my <em>(shutter angle 143-4 degrees)</em> Bolex exposure time will be 1/45. I set the Gossen to 25asa today and the 1/45 read off gave me reasonable f.stops, so far so good. </p> <p><a href="http://bolexh16user.net/ExposureAdvice.htm">http://bolexh16user.net/ExposureAdvice.htm</a></p>

<p>There is no weave on the H-16, the film pressure plate is removed, cleaned and checked before each shoot. What is being read as weave is again probably the effect of hand processing which leads to uneven development across the film plane. I'm partial to this effect, it reminds me I am using photographic emulsion, same holds for projector transfers which capture the mechanical ambience of a live film projector. Many thanks for the helpful insights on metering and the H-16 with its exposure characteristics.</p> <p>I have a Bolex manual from 1953 which gives 16fps as 1/30 and at 24fps it is 1/45; but it does not tell you what the shutter angle is. For example, another (later?) manual [swiss, nd] gives the value at 16fps at 1/40. Nor can I find anything on the mirror / prism mechanism, whether this can be altered to allow more light into the H-16. There certainly doesn't seem to be a control on the Bolex to achieve this. The speed dial on the H-16 is variable from 8 all the way up to 64fps.</p> <p>For asa 100 film, if I shot today at 1/30 - 1/40 a fixed aperture would push me towards the f.16 edge of the diaphragm. Out in the open I'd be off the scale, so I employ ND filters to reduce the sensitivity of the film. I guess exposure is now down to experimentation and fine tuning.</p>

<p>Thanks. Weave will be the transfer set-up, working on that. The only proper lens I used was the fixed 75mm telephoto, the others were modern. I reckon I'm losing between 1 and 2 stops on the Pan Cinor plus the reflex H-16. However the asa 100 film can tolerate that, being so much more light sensitive than earlier film stocks. I still need a more accurate light meter reading - reflective or incident - to allow me to compensate for the missing stops of light, which brings me back to the Sekonic :)</p> <p>Also, Craig said: "Set your meter at ISO 100 and the shutter speed on the meter at 1/40 and take a reading. That will give you your f-stop". <br> <br> 1/40 on the Gossen equates to about 18fps, they're linked, inner to outer dials. That reads off at just under f-5.6 when the light meter is set at asa 100. The Gossen is calibrated 1/30 to 1/60 so again it is tricky to be precise for values inbetween. Hopefully I can actually key some definite numbers into the Sekonic to make things a little easier.</p>

<p>Thanks. Ages after taking delivery of the lens someone pointed out the 2,66T formula on the aperture ring which apparently gives the loss of light for this lens as about 4/5 of a stop? If even <em>more</em> light is being lost due to the reflex mechanism we are talking big in f-stops :-o My problem is to work out exactly what is being lost so I can calibrate my light meters for accurate exposure. Yes, I take your point about DIY developing. After the present film (a project) I may shoot 100 feet of pure test footage. Back in the day I did this for all my cameras but there have been many changes in my life over the past 3-4 years or so, more or less coinciding with acquiring the Pan-Cinor. I need to do a series of tests, just like I did with the fixed lens. Well, at least summer is on the way, so I will have some decent light to test out with.</p> <p>So no, I am probably seriously underestimating the light loss associated with this camera plus the zoom lens. This explains why I have been troubled with underexposure all the time I used this set up. I also got underexposure using a Krasnogorsk-3 several years ago, and that also has a whopping zoom on it, but you can film TTL no worry. Hardly use that though, it is so very difficult to load and so very unforgiving if you get it wrong. Never had a misload with the H-16.</p>

<p>Thanks Craig, you said:</p> <p><em>"Looks like you might have the 1956 H-16 Reflex. That model had a 144 degree shutter, so at 16 fps your shutter speed is 1/40. You don't need to use a dogleg lens since this is an actual reflex camera. Does the Pan Cinor have any way to flip its viewing mirror out of the way? Otherwise you are losing light to it and again to the viewing mirror inside the camera." </em><br> <br> Sadly this will might to wait, the Bolex is back-wound for double exposure right now and I don't want to compromise the film. It would be great if you were right, back when I used the turret lenses the prism directed my line of sight through the diaphragm, so that below maximum aperture all you saw through the viewfinder was slate black, that's why I went for the dog's leg. Yes, it would be a 58 issue of the 56 model.<br> <br> How is the 144 degree shutter going to affect metering at 16fps please? I am shooting asa 100 film with a ND2 filter on the lens. I removed a second ND2 filter from the fillter tray because of under exposure. I dropped the asa on the Gossen from 50 to 25 to allow more light to enter the camera - it's one long experiment at the moment. <br> <br> The most consistent results I had were with the fixed turret lenses because they lost no light. I am determined to master the zoom lens though. The slight variation in light & shade is caused by hand developing.<br> <br> https://youtu.be/fzdd8qcjLZk<br> <br> <img src="https://youtu.be/fzdd8qcjLZk" alt="" /><br> <br> </p> <blockquote> <p> </p> </blockquote>

<p>Here is the H16, I worked out from the serial number that it weighed in at about 1958.<br> <img src="http://i1295.photobucket.com/albums/b630/r_i_c_2012/H-16-and-lens-low_zpslpxhclvs.jpg" alt="" /><br> If you film at 16&2/3 it syncs with 50fps because the camera speed divides exactly into 50. You will note that the H16 has no lever down its side for shutter blade angle. I don't know what the set shutter angle is for this camera, 180 degrees? My projector has variable speed control. I am critical of lab transfers / telecine because the results are so often like video, you lose the inherent 'shake' of the film (especially Super 8) as the software stabilises everything to the nth degree.</p> <p>The fact you can rotate that light meter head is good news but it looks like I am going to have to learn incident light reading, something I have been long curious about but never tried.</p> <p>The dog leg lens is a Pan Cinor F2 17-85mm. The black cowling supports an additional thread enabling the use of filters - was unable to match the native thread dimension. The lens is covered with elastic bands to hold the multiple lens caps in place because it turned up with most missing. Oh how I wish I could replace those missing caps. Both camera and lens have been serviced.<br> <br> How is this so far please?</p>

<p>This image shows a revolving head - there is no mention of this in the 358 pdf manual though.<br /> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Sekonic_L-358_Flash_Master.jpg<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Sekonic_L-358_Flash_Master.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>Thanks, I primarily film landscapes - <em>woah</em> - had no idea metering the H16 was going to be such a learning curve, I had better results with the turret arrangement but then you can't easily use TTL viewfinding. The dog leg lens I now use is a dream for composing shots but the metering is still work in progress ;)</p> <p>I don't understand why you say the Sekonic 358 can be used to point at the subject then read off the values - unless the 'head' of the unit can be revolved through 180 degrees, so that you are facing the subject and reading off values at the same time please?</p>

<p>Thanks, apologies I'm a bit lost here. I used the Gossen as a reflected light ['spot'?] meter because I started out on Super 8 cameras which all worked that way. Are we now suggesting I go ahead and acquire the Sekonic 308 please? In which case I can begin to explore Andrew's suggestions for metering. It will be interesting to compare the Sekonic to the Gossen however the Gossen cine dial is near the centre of the circular display so the intervals are tiny, you could only easily use it for standard speeds like 18, 24 and so forth, which are clearly marked.</p>

<p>Thanks. Yes, I shoot at 16&2/3rds to synch with my dv cam which runs at 50fps and I have a 3 blade projector, so I set the H16 Reflex at just over 16fps. But my Gossen is marked from 9 to 18fps with a tiny dot inbetween, the dial detail is so minute here that I cannot really tell what the dot signifies. But I haven't even got '16' to aim at when I'm filming, and on a difficult shoot it becomes nigh impossible to work out what's going on. The H16 has tended to under expose recently.</p> <p>The lens is challenging as well, it swallows over a stop of light, that took some getting used to. It's an early model so it has no shutter angle control, I can only fade in and out with a variable ND filter. Add all that to a light meter which has no clear read out for the speed I shoot at and you have a recipe for a nervous disorder by the end of the day.</p> <p>The Gossen is great, it works a treat, but the speed I am filming at makes using it extremely awkward, that's why I wondered if some of the more recent reflected light meters would allow me to focus on a defined fps - the Sekonic 308DC has a 16fps frame rate setting for example, that might make my life a bit easier?</p> <p>Thanks again</p>