Buying a new camera

[netrinogr]

<p>Hi,<br>

This is my first post here, on the site, cause I really need any help available.<br>

I'm into photography around 4 years now and have done some seminars in a photography school, as well as worked in different projects in those years (photobooks, photojournalism etc)<br>

I'm about to start getting into the wedding bussiness. The reason is because it's (maybe) the only well paid photographic job in Greece, and also I like shooting weddings.<br>

The problem is that I must change my camera (all other work is done with Olympus E-500 and much photoshop "magic").<br>

I'm stuck after reading many many reviews with Canon 5D Mark II, which should also help me with my arty projects as well, and studio shoots.<br>

The dilema comes when some photographers tell me that maybe I should go into Nikon system, or buy a cheaper camera for a start. I'm - again - closer to Mark II, cause it will last longer (on work demand) and I have a thing for Canon System. An extra + for Canon is that the photographer I will work with, has Canon system and will borrow me some equipment, so I will have time to built my own equipment (Flashes, Lenses etc...)</p>

<p>Sorry if I my post is long for reading... I'm awaiting for your opinion...<br>

Nick</p>

[phule]

<p>If you feel like a particular camera is the right camera for you then you should buy it. Who cares what everyone else shoots? Lots of people shoot Nikon and lots shoot Canon. Others shoot Pentax, Sony, Olympus. You are not trying to please other photographers, you're trying to please your clients. You do that by creating quality photos not by telling them you shoot camera X or camera Y because someone else does. </p>

 

[pcnilssen]

<p>Nick,<br>

if you are going to make wedding photography your business, there is one thing you must do first: Go to the camera store and try both the Canon and Nikon models, as well as other you might like. Both Canon and Nikon have a large supply of lenses and other accessories, but if you are going to depend on your camera for a living, you have to buy the one that feels good in your hands. Ergonomics is a must; which brand is on your camera is IMHO of lesser importance.</p>

<p>After you have decided for the system brand, you can explore the cameras. Canon have their 5d and 1d series, which seem popular among wedding shooters, in the Nikon camp D700 and D3 (and D3x if you can afford it) are *the* wedding cameras. Before you decide upon the camera, remember to include 1st class lenses into your budget. Buying a "pro" camera will do you nothing good if you forget that these cameras demand 1st class lenses.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

[netrinogr]

<p>Thank you Rob for your imediate answer...<br>

I totally agree with your point. My questions arouse, from the fact that all those, last, years I was shooting my humble E-500 to its limits, and never searched the market for other brands. Now it's the time and I just want as many opinions as possible (from both sides Canon and Nikon) to measure the pros and cons and make my choice.<br>

Till now I tend towards Canon. The only thing that still keeps me looking to Nikon is the fastest AF, better Flash system (??). I was also told (and seen in pics) that Nikon has warmer color, but I personally prefer the cold ones (and then depending on the photo, fix on ps)</p>

[williamting]

<p>I use Nikon, and if you're deciding to buy the Canon 5D Mark II it is a ridiculously good camera and well worth switching to. The Nikon equivalent would be the D700 and it has better high ISO and CLS, but lacks the megapixels and HD video isn't done as well. However CLS is negated as you'd be using Pocket Wizards anyway in a wedding environment.</p>

<p>If I was in your situation I'd go with Canon hands down, ignore users (of both camps) who only give you one-sided arguments.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>You will most definitely get lots of opinions, but no concensus. This Nikon/Canon question, even when applied specifically to weddings, gets asked a lot. No one can answer for you because we don't know what your priorities are, beyond what you just described, which is the usual set of pros and cons when it comes to Nikon vs. Canon.</p>

<p>Nikon is know for faster, surer autofocus and supposedly more consistent flash exposure (I have used both and don't see that much difference). The new 24-70mm f2.8 lens is said to be superb, while the Canon equivalent is also highly regarded re image quality but not so highly regarded in quality control. The D700 and D3 are generally regarded as having the 'best' high ISO noise control. Nikon's biggest lack is lack of great, wide aperture primes.</p>

<p>Canon has a history of great image quality, and the 5D Mk II is just a hair under the D700 and D3 re high ISO noise. It has HD video. Canon's wide aperture primes are highly regarded. Autofocusing is troubling to some, but not others. Same with the flash exposure system.</p>

<p>I do not see any color differences between the two brands. The latter has more to do with the lens used and the processing software. I do think Canon files tend to be 'creamier', whether that is from the anti-aliasing filter or not.</p>

<p>Beyond the above, it will come down to personal choices, such as the fact you can borrow Canon gear, and whether you value autofocusing over other factors, etc. Another thing to do is to see how each feels in the hand. Since you will be holding and working the controls all day, it is very important. Also, different people react differently with the cameras' interfaces.</p>

<p>I always recommend that people sit down with pen and paper, and write down all the pros and cons in separate columns, after having made a list of important features and prioritized them.</p>

[betty_lowrey]

<p>I use Nikon but I'm no Nikon snob. Canon's make WONDERFUL cameras, and I know the 5D Mk II is a great camera.<br>

But, when it all comes down to it, it's the photographer I believe that has more influence on what is produced, not the camera. Get some good lenses though!</p>

[netrinogr]

<p>I have in mind a complete equipment system, that I want to get in due time...<br>

It's the following. Tell me if you have an idea of anything else<br>

- Canon 5D Mark II<br>

Lenses:<br>

- Canon EF 24-105 f/4L<br>

- Canon EF 70-200 f/4L IS<br>

- Canon EF 85 f/1,8 USM<br>

- Canon EF 50 f/1,8 II (for personal use mostly)<br>

- Sigma 12-24 F/4,5-5,6 EX DC HSM<br>

Flashes:<br>

- Canon 430 EX II<br>

- Canon 580 EX II<br>

+ Grip, extra Batteries, Remote, etc</p>

[williamting]

<p>If you're doing weddings you need to change up your plan a little:</p>

<ol>

<li>You need a backup body and flash ASAP.</li>

<li>You need f/2.8 zooms.</li>

</ol>

<p>Whether you want to go with two 5D II's or a 5D II / 50D combo is up to you, but it is imperative that you have a backup body asap. If you're getting a 50D as the backup, you can cover a wedding just fine with a 24-70/2.8 on the 5D II and an 85/1.8 on the 50D.</p>

<p>Also get a 3rd flash as well in case one or both of your flashes die on you. Instead of using a 580 as command you can get Pocket Wizards or CyberSyncs. They will cost you a bit more upfront, but will be cheaper in the long run. I'm not sure what the recycle difference is between the 580 and 430 as I'm a Nikon user, but check to see if the 430 will take an external battery pack. If it won't, then you should go with the 580.</p>

<p> </p>

[bradley_nielsen]

<p>Absolutely listen to William. As a wedding photographer that just switched from kit lenses to 2.8 zooms, i know he's right. I'd get a lower end body (Nikond D90 or Cannon D50) and spend what you would have spent on a better body on good quality lenses. The 2.8 zooms will let you shoot at lower ISOs anyways, which is a main reason to upgrade (low noise at high ISOs). Unless of course, you are in desperate need to upgrade to a full-frame system. Also, If you're worried about about the lower end bodies not lasting long, i could buy a Nikon D90 with a five year warranty (everything covered but fire/theft and free maintenance), thats five guaranteed years of a working camera, for less than a D300 with just manufacturer warranty.</p>

[William Michael]

<p ><strong ><em >“I have in mind a complete equipment system tell me if you have an idea of anything else”</em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p >I agree with William T regarding a second body – either for back up or as a working body and back up.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >If you opt for a dual, format system (e.g. 50D + 5DMkII) then I think you really need to re think the lens system, <em>entirely.</em> I use a dual format system, and I work with two cameras and have a third as my "back up". </p>

<p >There are a few extended threads on the strategies and leverage of dual format systems. . . we'll leave that thought sit to sink in, for the moment.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p >But the (main) object of having (at least) a second camera is to facilitate continuing the coverage if one camera fails – so if you have a dual format system, you need to have lenses which allow for all contingencies and as a whole lens system <em >on both</em> <em >formats. </em></p>

<p ><em > </em></p>

<p >Just as one example, if you had a 50D + 5DMkII and the 5D went down – you are really stuck for a fast lens in at close quarters should you not be allowed to use Flash – the 50F/1.8 is a short telephoto on the 50D.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Also I agree about the two zoom lenses being F2.8, but, for the 24 to 105 that is more <em >a personal choice for how I work, than an absolute with any critical logic.</em> </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The 24 to 105L F/4 IS . . . this lens is an <em >IS lens</em>. There is a school of thought that the 24 to 105 is a “better” main working zoom lens than the 24 to 70F/2.8L on a 5D, because of the IS and the extra Focal Length. That discussion has been had many times and I can see both sides to it. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >That said I own neither the 24 to 70, nor the 24 to 105 . . . because I have a dual format system and because of that, both of those zoom lenses are superfluous to my needs. . . as I have a 16 to 35 and 70 to 200.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >The “absolute” I bring to the 24-105 vs. 24-70 discussion is, whatever main zoom one uses, one must have a fast Prime: but preferably two, to cover slightly wide and slightly telephoto. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Regarding the 70 to 200 zoom . . . that is a different song - I am in absolute agreement with William T: </p>

<p > </p>

<p >One main use for a lens 100mm and longer is when you are at distance and sans flash – IS will not stop subject motion, only fast Av and Fast ISO can give you the fast Tv to stop those Brides and Grooms wobbling, so if you move to buy a 70 to 200, then it has to be the F2.8, and whilst you are at it, if this is a business purchase there will be times when it will be time prudent for you to use the IS.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >But, I don't necessarily think a 70 to 200 zoom is an absolute necessity in a Wedding Kit - using a 5DMkii I value the 135F/2L + a x1.4MkII extender, (as the first purchase), better partners to the 85F/1.8, than any of the four 70 to 200 zooms. I very rarely use my 70 to 200 at a Wedding, but styles and techniques vary. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >If you opt for the 24 to 105 and stick with 5D format cameras, I think you are a little exposed at the wide, for a fast lens – so I think the 35F/2 would be a better first “budget” buy than the 50F/1.8 – the 35F/1.4L would be nicer, but more expensive – do not underestimate the 35F/2.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >IMO, the 85F/1.8 is the just about the best consumer lens Canon make and $ for $ against its L counterpart is the best value for money lens in the range. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The Sigma’s designation is “DG” . . . not “DC” – though I don’t think they make a DC version of that lens, but, the “DG” might be important for ordering – as it designates it is a lens which can be used properly, on 135 format cameras, like the 5D series (“DC” designates an image circle for APS-C format only).</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I have no comment about the flash remote system – I have simple tastes in this regard, but I would get two 580Mkii. My logic is redundancy is better with the same unit – less thinking.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

<p > </p>

 

[netrinogr]

<p>Thank you again, for all your helpfull comments.<br>

I agree with most of your ideas, and I can get close to a final decision.<br>

As for the 2nd camera body, and 3 flashes etc I think it's a little bit early. For start, I will work alongside a professional photographer as an assistant, so I can learn the secrets of the job, and also gain confidence in my powers. Therefore, I will borrow his equipment (Canon) when needed, and make my own set piece by piece.<br>

There is a 90% possibility I end up with a 5D Mark II, for the following reasons.<br>

i) I prefer the canon lens system - from what I read and see, after some months of searching. Also, I prefer the "colder" colors of Canon, against "warmer" Nikon<br>

ii) I also shoot for a local magazine (mostly people for interviews and events) and so I want good picture analysis, when it goes for cover, as well as high ISO without noise, for shooting in any wanted location.<br>

iii) If I finally get in the Wedding Business, I will need a second (or even third) camera body, so eventually I will buy another Canon model. Since then I will know which one is better as an acompany for 5D (50d, 60d?? or...)<br>

iv) On the other hand, if my finances don't go well (we must put everything in the equation) I will be able to sell the 5D mark II, with a shorter loss of value, than I would with the 50D...<br>

v) I don't shoot sports, or wars... so I won't be needing fast burst shooting (which 5D mark II lacks of...)<br>

vi) I worked in studios with Canon cameras and I'm completely satisfied. Studio is also one other area that is important...<br>

vii) I was told, and also I have seen with my own eyes, that Mark II is the DSLR, which gives results closest to film cameras, than any other DSLR.<br>

In conclusion, I prefer going now for the best that I can (now that I took the decision), and step by step built a full system with what I need.<br>

The last step (the 10% left on my decision) is to hold both cameras (Canon and Nikon) (Canon 5D Mark II, Nikon D300?) and see which one fits and feels better.</p>

[pcnilssen]

<p>Nick,<br>

good luck with your desicions and with your wedding business. I am sure you will be satisfied whatever brand you decide to go for.</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Buy the mark2. It's 100% worth every penny. We love both of ours. :)</p>

[William Michael]

<p >I understand your logic except for (vi) <em>"I will be able to sell the 5D mark II, with a shorter loss of value, than I would with the 50D..."</em></p>

<p ><em></em></p>

<p >I do not know the purchase / second hand resale market in Greece, but in general, business accounting dictates there is less overall loss on the smaller capital purchase.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I do not think this is a big deal at all and it would not influence my decision: I mention it only in passing.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Good luck with your venture.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

 

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Personal lineup: 70-200 2.8L IS, 50 1.2L, 35 1.4L, 85 1.2L<br>

Optional starter equivalant: 70-200 2.8L IS (no other option personally), 50 1.4 USM (SOOO much better than the 50 1.8. TRUST ME.), 28 1.8 USM, 85 1.8 USM. :)</p>

<p>Hope that helps! :)</p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>I would recommend getting what you feel you can justify from the perspective of what you expect from your business.</p>

<p>As for the brand... whatever you feel most comfortable with. Even Oly will work well with the right approach. their glass is great too. Canon does very well and if you can use the friends glass/accessories, that would make it an easy choice IMO.</p>

<p>As for me, well I shoot mostly Nikon these days and tried the 5D2. I also shot Canon from 03 to 09, so I obviously found it to be acceptable as pro gear. If you stick with Canon, the 40D is a pretty nice camera and can be a great backup once the 5D2 comes your way.</p>

<p>Best of luck, D.</p>

[alan_rockwood]

<p>Do you have companies nearby where you can rent equipment? Maybe you should rent some lenses for your first few wedding contracts and then decide which types are best for you.</p>

[netrinogr]

<p>Thank you for all your answers and help.<br>

I finally ended buying 5D Mark II (with 24-105 f/4L kit), and now I'm waiting to have it in my hands on the next days. I'm excited and started reading the camera manual, to be ready for my first test shots as soon as possible.</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Congrats Nick! As far as renting equipment. Don't waste your money. It's great if you absolutely need it but after that it's a money pit. It is great however for testing lenses. :)</p>