Leica discontinue development of R10

[steve_unsworth1]

<p>Leica will not be producing a digital R10. A meeting at Leica yesterday were told that there would be no development of a digital 35mm body from Leica. They were told that a solution to enable them to use R lenses on a digital body would be coming - presumably this means that it won't be produced by Leica themselves. Indications were that it would have an EVF and not be a 4/3 camera. No timescales were given, but it will not be available in the short term.</p>

[l_dasousa]

<p>In these times when there are so many corporations failing, one must appreciate how scary it must be for Leica. I would not wish it my responsibility to make decisions for them, when any one wrong move might surely be fatal. But like always, Leica is deficient in smart P.R. What they <em>should have</em> said was that economy forces them to "put on hold" the developement of the R10. Other words, leave open the hope of it, even if they do not plan so. </p>

[sitemistic]

<p>Well, you can still buy a $30,000 S1 or a $5,000 DRF with a five year old sensor in it. ;)<br>

I think the reality is tht the global economy simply cut what remained of their legs from under them and Dr. K doesn't want to burn through any more money.</p>

[blakley]

<p><em>They were told that a solution to enable them to use R lenses on a digital body would be coming - presumably this means that it won't be produced by Leica themselves.</em><br>

Sort of a weird statement, since this solution already exists for Canon DSLRs... I wonder what additional capability would be provided? Or perhaps it means Panasonic will be coming out with a new system tailored for this use?</p>

[sitemistic]

<p>Why would you spend the money to produce a camera to use mechanical lenses that aren't made anymore? That just doesn't make sense. While I love my R lenses on my SL and R4, I wouldn't buy a digital camera just to use them.</p>

[steve_unsworth1]

<p>I took that to mean it would be a camera that had an automatic diaphragm and didn't rely on stop down metering. The words used were 'a good solution'.</p>

<p>Remember too that with some Canon bodies - the 5D for example - the metering doesn't correctly track the exposure as you stop down. I could provide a link to more details (not that there are many firm facts), but when I tried to do that earlier today the mods deleted the thread with the link, so sorry about that.</p>

[l_dasousa]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=405747">Steve Unsworth</a> , Jun 13, 2009; 12:57 p.m.</p>

 

<p>I took that to mean it would be a camera that had an automatic diaphragm and didn't rely on stop down metering. The words used were 'a good solution'.</p>

 

<p>Remember too that with some Canon bodies - the 5D for example - the metering doesn't correctly track the exposure as you stop down.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>The diaphragm stopdown of Leica R is purely mechanical, and whilst the meter indexing in ROM lenses is by electronics, not every person has ROM lenses or would agree to spend to convert them. So this so-calls "good solution" would also be very complicated. It would involves this unnamed other manufacturer to not simply incoporate an R bajonet, but to incorporate mechanical linkage synchronised to shutter actuation. For such minuscule demand as it would be, how much would such a camera cost to develop and produce, therefore and need to be priced? Sure there are maybe a tiny group of fanaticals who would pay $5000 for a Panasonic with EVF if it will say "Leica" and fit their R lenses, and will then shout from the roofs tops that it is imagery far superior to Canon 5DII or 1DSIII, but will the vast majority of sensible-thinking people with a kit of R lenses do that?</p>

[kens]

<p>Disappointing to say the least. But given the global economy I understand the choices they must make. Film will do just fine for now.</p>

[mark cortella]

<p>The Leica S1 digital camera was discontinued several years ago. The new Leica medium format S2 camera will be available in the fall,for between 10,000 to 20,000 USD,depending on which internet poster you wish to believe. More likely 10 to 12 thousand USD. The R10 in my opinion,would not return the investment. Buy yourselves a really good film scanner and use your current "R" cameras and lenses-that's what I intend to do. Anybody know where I can get a Hasselblad X5 scanner cheap?</p>

[mark cortella]

<p>You could also go to Leitax.com and look at the solutions they have for using R lenses on other makes of cameras. Use your lenses on Pentax,Nikon,Sigma,and Sony cameras. Hmmm...that Sony A900 is a very nice camera,and 25 mp. And a third of the price of a Nikon.</p>

[Rob F.]

<p>How tough can it be to come up with a basic DSLR body with a Leica R mount? I fail to see why this needs to be so difficult. How about an occasional special run of Nikon, Canon, Fuji, or whatever, with Leica R mount? In fact, in recent memory, one or two technicians were offering a Nikon F3 to Leica R conversion (stop-down metering needed). So how about a D-200 conversion to R mount, <em>with </em>full diaphragm coupling? If the D200 does not lend itself, then <em>something </em>must! <em>It can't be that tough. It just can't!</em></p>

[Alex_Es]

<p>I agree with Rob F. There is no reason why Panasonic, Leica's partner, cannot come up with a Leica R mount digital body. Panasonic, however, is bad financial shape these days. Well, there is always Cosina. </p>

[sitemistic]

<p>The bottom line is the bottom line. How many people would really buy a digital camera with a manual focus lens mount for a range of lenses that are no longer being made? Precious few. There is no real financial incentive to produce such a camera.</p>

[stephen_york3]

<p>It seems like Leica's big mistake was to develop this S2 in leu of the R10.</p>

[fjords]

<p>yehh...SLRs are going the way of the dynas00r... Leica could come out with a fullframe EVF M mount that could accept any lens Leica evermade plus any new techno wonder lens one could concieve...ala panny G! technology...</p>

[vivek iyer]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1484175">john doane</a> , Jun 14, 2009; 12:54 a.m.</p>

 

<p>yehh...SLRs are going the way of the dynas00r... Leica could come out with a fullframe EVF M mount that could accept any lens Leica evermade plus any new techno wonder lens one could concieve...ala panny G! technology...</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>:-)</p>

[uk]

<p>Quite a surprise, assuming there will be no economy model of the S2 to reach the masses. <br>

My reading of the information given by Dr Kaufman was that the S2 on it's own did justify the investment in the product. The benefit for the company would come from the S2 technology would trickle down into the R and the M range helping them to compete in volume markets.<br>

Whilst it's confirmed that the M will be redesigned to take advantage of the S2 components, it seems the the RoI calculations for the 20 mb dslr have been critically reviewed and the light extinguished.<br>

Was it said that there would not be a lower cost S2 ? 20mb, 35mm FF ....... ?</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>Could the 'solution to enable them to use R lenses on a digital body' perhaps be an S2 adapter with 'cropped mode' indicators in the camera's viewfinder (like the full-frame Nikons have when using DX lenses)..?</p>

[uk]

<p>"My reading of the information given by Dr Kaufman was that the S2 on it's own did justify the investment in the product."</p>

<p>Meant to type it would NOT justify the investment on it's own.</p>

[charles_wood]

<p>The unfortunate fact is that high-end/boutique markets are retrenching and companies in various product categories are consolidating. Large companies, as well as smaller specialty companies such as Leica, are having very tough times. And let's be honest about it. Leica is on the periphery of the photographic market in terms of a product line that can sustain a business model in this day and age. To the average person on the street the name Leica means nothing. Canon and Nikon, and to a growing extent SONY, are the recognizable names. Panasonic puts the Leica name under license on a Japanese manufactured lens and so what? To the average buyer Nikon and Canon brands are what sell in the numbers necessary to create an ongoing business. Unfortunately, as good as some of the Panasonic products are, they and a few others are second tier behind the very best efforts of Canon, Nikon, and SONY in terms of market name recognition. This also holds true in the professional broadcast market. SONY and Canon are the dominant players in terms of HD cams and lenses (especially Canon and Fujinon lenses). Similar scenarios are playing out in the world of high end audio and video, as one additional example. The specialty retailers have all but disappeared leaving the landscape to box stores and online sales and even the box store market has retrenched. Things are tough all over.</p>

[charles_wood]

<p>The unfortunate fact is that high-end/boutique markets are retrenching and companies in various product categories are consolidating. Large companies, as well as smaller specialty companies such as Leica, are having very tough times. And let's be honest about it. Leica is on the periphery of the photographic market in terms of a product line that can sustain a business model in this day and age. To the average person on the street the name Leica means nothing. Canon and Nikon, and to a growing extent SONY, are the recognizable names. Panasonic puts the Leica name under license on a Japanese manufactured lens and so what? To the average buyer Nikon and Canon brands are what sell in the numbers necessary to create an ongoing business. Unfortunately, as good as some of the Panasonic products are, they and a few others are second tier behind the very best efforts of Canon, Nikon, and SONY in terms of market name recognition. This also holds true in the professional broadcast market. SONY and Canon are the dominant players in terms of HD cams and lenses (especially Canon and Fujinon lenses). Similar scenarios are playing out in the world of high end audio and video, as one additional example. The specialty retailers have all but disappeared leaving the landscape to box stores and online sales and even the box store market has retrenched. Things are tough all over.</p>

[john_liberty]

<p>As others have said, there are already adapters to allow use of Leica R lenses on other brands of DSLR's. True, the metering is often buggy, but one can always hand meter. I personally think that there are a lot of people that would buy a Leica DSLR even w/ manual focus lenses because the optics are so good, and having a body that would meter correctly would be a big sales incentive.</p>

<p>Leica has made some strange marketing decisions in the past, so this is in keeping w/ their normal way of operating. They still keep rolling along because of one reason. Well, two actually. They make cameras and lenses that are of a higher build quality than the competition, and they make some of the best, if not the best, optics in photography. Leica sets the image standards that everyone else hopes to attain. There are no other camera manufacturers in the world that have the rich photographic history of Leica, and to a certain extant they rest on those laurels. But in the end (and excluding the M8, which seems to have un-fixable problems), Leica optics lead the pack. This is not exactly one man's opinion, it's born out by the cottage industry that has sprung up that allows people to shoot Leica glass on their non Leica cameras. You don't see photographers clammoring to shoot Canon or Nikon glass on their non branded cameras.</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>'I personally think that there are a lot of people that would buy a Leica DSLR even w/ manual focus lenses because the optics are so good, and having a body that would meter correctly would be a big sales incentive.'</p>

<p>Or they could do what Zeiss is now doing - selling manual focus lenses that allow open aperture metering in 3 of the most popular dSLR mounts (Nikon, EOS, Pentax), as well as M42, and not counting the Sony/Minolta mount Zeiss AF lenses:<br>

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B58B9/Contents-Frame/8E8AE439A3FD6101C125711B005A77C4<br>

Like Zeiss, they'd probably have to strike a deal with a Japanese manufacturing partner to make this financially viable (if it is viable - there may not be room for more than one range of boutique lenses in this niche).</p>

[MTC Photography]

<p>I am waiting for a full frame dslr body to use my set of Leica R lenses,( from 19mm to 400mm). Canon 5D is not a solution for me, as Canon uses in-lens image stabilization;<br>

Sony alpha 900 uses in camera stabilization, but cannon mount Leica lens. I hope Panasonic<br>

can come up with full frame evf digital camera with can mount Leica lenses.</p>

[stuart_richardson]

<p>Ok, so where is the original source for this? It's not that I disbelieve Steve, I would just like to hear what Leica has to say, and what their wording was. We don't even know who was at the meeting, or what it was about...was it intended for public consumption, or is this a leak? Etc. etc. Basically, where' the beef?. </p>