images_in_light_north_west Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>Nik is on sale for $99 so thought I would ask the question, I use Lightroom and CS4, is it worth adding Nik shapener to my workflow ? does it do better than LR and CS3 ?<br> Thanks, Ross.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcooper Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>Yes and yes. Among other excellent features, it enables local sharpening with LR and saves a ton of time with PS. Go for it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonmestrom Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>No and no (sorry D.B.) Smart sharpen does a great and fast job and that you already have so you just saved $ 99,00. And to be complete, I've got Nik.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
images_in_light_north_west Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>DB, do you have CSx ?<br>Ross</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert DeCandido PhD Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>Hello,<br> Yes and no?<br> Yes it will do a better job than Photoshop's sharpening tool; yes it is more convenient...but NO because as it is, it does not work with 64 bit operating systems (at least the other NIK tools do not, so I am assuming that is the case here - do correct me if I am wrong); and NO because another program (Focal Blade) is (imo) better and certainly cheaper.</p> <p>The other issue with NIK tools is that in 2-3 years when it will be time to upgrade (eg., Photoshop is only 64 bit), it is going to cost a good deal of money to upgrade all of their plug-ins - especially if someone purchased the "Suite." It will likely be all-or-nothiong on that upgrade..</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcooper Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>Ton, no problem at all. Here's my thoughts: I have the Nik CC, but I've only had it about a month. LR doesn't have Smart Sharpen, and Nik's Raw Presharpen gives LR that functionality. Adding local (control point) sharpening and the other Nik Output Sharpening features makes LR into a sharpening hot rod IMO. It's made going to PS unnecessary for me at times, but then I'm a hack with PS (sad but true...I'm workin' on it). If global sharpening were the only advantage, I'd agree with you 100%.</p> <p>I do see your point. Local sharpening and some of the other Nik 'Output Sharpening' features can certainly be done other ways in PS, but for me it can take longer and can be a more complex process than Nik's. PS can absolutely be more accurate defining local sharpening areas than the current Nik 'U-point' circle configuration. AFAIK, some of the sharpening adjustment options, locally and globally, aren't available in PS (i.e. structure, local contrast, focus, color sharpening controls), but I could be missing the boat.</p> <p>Honestly, I haven't had the need to take full advantage of Nik's available adjustments so far - I'm still learning and experimenting. Some of the features may be diminished returns for me at this point. LR functionality, time saving, ease of use, and features (in that order) are why I think it's worth adding to the OP's workflow at that price. I'm pretty happy with it, but maybe he wouldn't be. He could always download a 15-day trial and find out for himself...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuryan_thomas Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>One thing to be aware of is that Nik Sharpener, unlike the built-in Lightroom sharpening, will transform a raw image. That is, once sharpened, raw images will no longer be raw, but rather TIF.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonmestrom Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p><em>"...but then I'm a hack with PS (sad but true...I'm workin' on it)"</em></p> <p>then therin lies the difference. For me it's just the other way around. have still got to master LR ;-)))</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
images_in_light_north_west Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 <p>I have down loaded the 15 day trial but it wont load to CS4 for some reason, have not had a chance to play with it much, but enough to see it sharpens better than LR, smart sharpen works pretty good in PS and I'm not sure that Nik can do that better, but I hate the sharpening in LR. Kuyan you can sharpen in RAW with NIK<br> Ross</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuryan_thomas Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 <blockquote> <p>Kuyan you can sharpen in RAW with NIK</p> </blockquote> <p>Sharpener is installed as an external editor in Lightroom. Lightroom does not allow external editors to access the raw file as a raw file. Instead, Lightroom renders the raw file into a raster image such as TIF or PSD, in the process applying all of Lightroom's raw adjustments. It then ships the raster image to the external editor. The externally edited image is added to the Lightroom catalog as a raster image.</p> <p>Sharpener is not acting directly on the raw file.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyleweems Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 <p>I had to chime in here..</p> <p>"PS can absolutely be more accurate defining local sharpening areas than the current Nik 'U-point' circle configuration"</p> <p>I think you have a strong mis-understanding of what that circle really is. Nik is actually creating -extremely- complex masks based off of your sample point, IT IS NOT CIRCULAR.. not even a little. That circle is just a visual representation of the general area you are adjusting.. nothing more.</p> <p>Simple way to see it.. turn on the mask view. Go to your control points and look at the check boxes to the right, click the very top row (above your first control point) and it will turn on all the masks so you see what they are really doing.. it's extremely impressive in what it does.</p> <p>Just thought I'd clear that up :)</p> <p>My only comment to the original question would be that yes and no both apply here.. if you do a lot of local adjustments with sharpening, it's probably worth it.. if you don't, you likely don't need it. Local can be done in PS and such sure, but sharpener pro is faster.</p> <p>Kyle</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 <p>There's zero reason to use NIK if you're using Lightroom. It has both capture and output sharpening built in, does so totally non destructively on high bit, linear Raw data which is ideal. Its super fast since you're just building metadata instructions. Its output sharpening is based on the size you ask for in the print module and based on the capture sharpening. Doing any of this in Photoshop compared to LR is going to take a lot longer, require multiple layers and just slow you way down when you want to print. </p> <p>Creative sharpening isn't something LR does, so in terms of that kind of work, then you need to move into Photoshop. </p> <p>The so called LR plug-in from NIK (and all others too) doesn't do anything useful other than render out a TIFF from the Raw and apply the sharpening. Its NOT happening like LR's sharpening in the Raw processing engine. Its no different from opening the image as a TIFF in Photoshop and applying the Photoshop plug-in. It might be useful if you didn't own Photoshop. Otherwise, its a far, far cry from what LR is doing. Kuryan has described this well. </p> Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_johnston Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 <p>Someone said yesterday in another thread, the author of NIK wrote the sharpinging feature in Lightroom. So it make little sense to buy it when Lightroom will do the same job. But, if you already have it, then there may be features in NIK that are not in lightroom. Wish I could remember the name of the thread, maybe if you search for NIK and pick this weeks date. But, as I use LR2.3 in 64.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaldog Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 <blockquote> <p>Someone said yesterday in another thread, the author of NIK wrote the sharpinging feature in Lightroom. </p> </blockquote> <p>No, its technology from Pixel Genius's PhotoKit Sharpener, NOT NIK. <br> <br /></p> Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management" (pluralsight.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_schewe Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 <blockquote> <p>Someone said yesterday in another thread, the author of NIK wrote the sharpinging feature in Lightroom. </p> </blockquote> <blockquote> </blockquote> <p>Uh no...that is about as far opposite of reality as to be scifii (well science fantasy actually).</p> <p>Seriously, it would be useful for people to get things straight...Pixel Genius the developers of PhotoKit Sharpener worked with Adobe to incorporate PKS Output Sharpener into the Print module of Lightroom 2.x, Previously, Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe (members of Pixel Genius) collaborated with Thomas Knoll and Mark Hamburg to substantially improve the capture sharpening of both ACR and Lightroom. That happened back with ACR 4.1 and LR 1.4.</p> <p>None of this has ANYTHING to do with Nik...whose price reduction to $99 (the same selling price as PhotoKit Sharpener) is not related to ACR or LR.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_bryant2 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 <p>Can someone explain to me how to select the proper Output Sharpening choicesgiven in the latest versions of ACR?<br> I'm confused about why Output Sharpening should be selected for RAW processing.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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