Please help a DSLR noob in a bind (yes, another 'which camera' thread)

[david_russell8]

<p>I know how annoying these sorts of things must be, but I reckon it's better to ask some opinions on here than procrastinate on my own! I'm fairly set on making the plunge into the world of DSLRs, and was edging towards a Pentax K20D. My main reasons for this were the weather sealing (Scotland = you can't avoid taking photos in the rain unless you stay indoors :P), and the sensor-based IS. On the point of the latter, I know there are debates as to whether sensor or lens IS is better, but I have sensor IS in my Panasonic superzoom and it has always seemed fine.</p>

<p>However the cost of the K20D has given me doubts - particularly in comparison to the outgoing line of Sonys. Essentially a K20D with the kit lens would set me back £550, whereas I can get a Sony A300 with its kit lens for £300. I'm aware that the K20D is really closer to the Canon 40D/Sony A700 sort of territory than it is to the A300, but is it likely to be worth the extra cost compared to the Sony? I know 'worth' is an inherently subjective concept (oh for the days of the early 2000s when everything could be compared purely on megahertz and megapixels :P), but my main photography interests are landscapes (of both the urban and rural varieties) and indoors ('snapshots' of family occasions essentially). Would the high-ISO noise (I'm interested in the A300 over the A350 for primarily this reason) and lack of weather sealing be significant problems with the A300?</p>

<p>Oh and FWIW I don't plan to spend a fortune on lenses (e.g. the Sony 'G' series, Pentax's DA*). I see myself buying primarily the manufacturer's consumer lenses (like Sony's forthcoming 50mm f1.8, or the 55-250mm telezoom that every single manufacturer has :P), third-party stuff, and then once I have a better idea of what I'm doing maybe some M42 prime lenses off evilbay (I know an adapter would be needed on either camera by the way) just for giggles.</p>

<p>To be honest having been set on the K20D I'm now actually leaning towards the A300. With inbuilt IS I manage to take nonflash indoors shots most of the time with my superzoom (sure, there's noise, but nothing overly noticeable), and I'd imagine that either of these two will be a substantial improvement on what I already consider acceptable performance in this regard. There's also the fact that I'll be saving a lot of money (although, to be fair, I'll have to subtract a bit for a decent memory card since the A300 doesn't take SD) which can then be spent in other areas</p>

<p>EDIT: Forgot to mention, I plan to shoot RAW. This is partly because I'm a computer geek and image editing is 'fun' rather than work, and partly because I got Lightroom 2 free from Amazon Vine a while back :P</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Just as a heads up, the Pentax kit lens is rated best kit among the brands, if you truly see yourself living with the kit lens then I would say this is worth a premium.</p>

<p>Second, with the K7 pentax is going to release a new kit lens with weather sealing. Add that to your k20D, and you have a fully sealed camera.</p>

<p>I admit I don't know much about Sony, Minolta was an excellent company, but Pentax does seem to listen to it's base, and screw them less often. The budget lenses from Pentax seem to be high quality, and well designed. I'm obviously a Pentax fan, but that said, I also believe cameras are just tools, and you should use whatever camera is the best tool for you. Sounds like sealing was a priority, and that alone would sway me towards the Pentax. Many people don't care eitherway about sealing, you seem to be a person who does.</p>

<p>I'd definitely recommend adding the new weather sealed kit lenses to the K20D when they arrive. I have never owned a kit lens, but I'll be adding the wide angle kit zoom. I already have a 50-135mm DA* so no need for the 50-200 with sealing, but if starting from scratch the size and weight, vs. optical qualities of the lenswould be something that I was interested in.</p>

<p> </p>

[david_russell8]

<blockquote>

<p>Sounds like sealing was a priority, and that alone would sway me towards the Pentax. Many people don't care eitherway about sealing, you seem to be a person who does.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I'm more a person who thinks he possibly <em>should</em> be concerned about weather sealing, but isn't sure whether it's a big deal. I'm not talking being drenched by breaking waves or taking photos in a sandstorm - 'just' bad weather. Is sealing a big deal for a non-pro? I see plenty of pictures of rainshowers on Flickr from 450Ds, D60s and Alphas, so up until now I've seen weather sealing as more of an 'ooh, that's neat' feature rather than it being on my 'needed features' shopping list.<br>

<br /> On the point of the kit lens, I can't wait for the new one to come out because Pentax apparently has big UK price hikes coming on the 1st of June.</p>

[tomadakis]

<p>The K20D is a fine camera. The weather seals are worth every cent. Since the K7D was just announced I would expect the K20D to drop in price. Another option is the Pentax K10D, another fine camera at a very reasonable price on eeekbay.</p>

[david_russell8]

<blockquote>

<p>Since the K7D was just announced I would expect the K20D to drop in price.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Normally this would be the case, but the UK's exchange rates against the yen and US dollar are screwed at the moment, and Pentax hasn't (yet) jacked up its UK prices to reflect this (Canon and Nikon did it earlier this year). So at the beginning of June the K20D's price will likely go <em>up</em> 20 - 25%.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>I couldn't disagree with your point about "should be but not 100% concerned". Mist shouldn't kill a camera with a little care, a down pour will probably, but even then minimal exposure and a well built camera should be fine.</p>

<p>The K10D was my first sealed camera besides the Nikon D1H. I have never killed a camera and I shoot a lot in bad weather.</p>

<p>I will say this, peace of mind with a sealed camera is much higher. For the first time I don't worry IF my camera will work, I know barring some sort of disaster with a bad seal (and even then you still have 71 other sealed points vs. 0 sealed points).</p>

<p>A few other notes, the K20D sensor is extraordinary, it has quirks but no major flaws. For landscapes it's a very nice sensor. Also as far as high ISO, in good light I have no issues shooting it at 1600-2500. What is the pixel count on the Sony sensor? I don't believe it is 14.5? Also, the 21fps burst mode of the K20D made it essentially the first DSLR with video...obviously it lacked sound but it was truly the first camera with this capablity and also it is useful in many instances where you would want to shoot video.</p>

<p>The final question is, have you handled both? and which do you like better in the hand, and diving through menus (or lack of menus).</p>

<p>Basically, to me the strong points of the K20D for your needs are very good high ISO (with detail in decent light or with fill), and a much higher res sensor than the competition which will be useful in landscapes. Sealing might be a push depending on your needs, but keep in mind sealing also keeps out dust which finds it's way into any unsealed camere including fixed lens cameras. The other factor of sealing is a generally more robust build. It's hard to seal a poorly assembled camera!</p>

<p><br /> Sorry to hear about the pending price increases in the UK. The kits in the US look to be about $200 each, which is very respectable considering they are sealed.</p>

[david_russell8]

<p>The main (online) Pentax dealer here in the UK is a place called SRS, and since they're apparently quite reasonable I might be able to talk them into some accomodation regarding the kit lens. Even if that isn't possible (and it would be unfair to assume that it <em>will</em> be), as you point out a K20D with imperfect weather sealing (e.g. with the current, non-sealed kit lens) is more weather sealed than a Sony Alpha or Canon EOS. As regards hand-holding, I haven't had the opportunity to handhold either of them yet but I'm planning to do so over the next few days - this all assuming that the only 'Camera Shop Which Isn't Jessops' in Glasgow actually stocks Pentax (Jessops, the big photo chain over here, doesn't stock Pentax but does stock Alphas).</p>

<p>You're right about the resolution. The A300 is 10.2MP (the A350 is 14.2). Sealing is something of a push, although not so much for dust as for weather. The west of Scotland is one of those "four seasons in a day" places - you go out wearing a light jacket and come home with what feels like the entire Atlantic Ocean having fallen on your head :P Your point about build quality is also changing my mind back - Sony aren't the mark of reliability they once were, whereas the K20D strikes me as the sort of camera that will keep going until the shutter packs in. Having had an attack of 'the doubts' I'm now actually re-'set' on the K20D, since it looks like being money well spent. Thanks for the help!</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>You seem to be fairly interested in the Pentax, so buy it already. Even if there were "best" cameras in general, the Pentax cameras would be somewhere in the listing, and you can hardly go wrong with <strong><em>any</em> </strong> modern dSLR.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Weather sealing is a reasonable concern given the conditions you described. And I don't have a pony in this race (I'm a Nikonista and closet Zuikophile), so I'm reasonably objective. Given the factors you've described, if it were me I'd get the Pentax. It seems to meet all of your requirements and has the advantage of a long history in SLR systems.</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>I favor Pentax. I use my Pentax film cameras frequently, and they're built like a tank. I've dunked them, dropped them and flirted with college coeds with them. They're workhorse cameras; I think they do just fine. </p>

<p>I see you've decided on the Pentax; I'd encourage you to visit the Pentax forum here. There are several K20D users; and it's just generally a good resource for community info.</p>

[kari v]

<p>£550 for K20D is a sweet deal, it has pretty much everything you can hope for.</p>

<p>Weather sealing<br>

Robust build but fits like a glove (well, at least for me)<br>

Great resolution and better noise handling (landscapes and indoor snaps... let's see...)<br>

Better viewfinder (you can actually see what you're doing with those old manual Pentax and m42 lenses)<br>

Higher quality kit lenses (which you'll be using)</p>

<p>Go buy it already. :)</p>

[david_russell8]

<p>Well, my K20D arrived today and I love it. I've still only got a very limited idea of what I'm doing :P Anyway thanks to everyone for your help!</p>