G1, the new ragefinder?

[peter_werner1]

<p><img src= "http://www.leicaphoto.net/discus/messages/10/5355.jpg" /img><br /> More on http://www.leicaphoto.net/discus/messages/10/5322.html?1243001152</p>

[andy_piper2]

<p>I must have missed the modification to the dictionary where "EVF" became a synonym for "rangefinder." Try to focus a lens manually on the G1/GH1 - fast enough for photojournalism, not just flowers - and the difference will become starkly apparent.</p>

<p>But the mirrorless micro-4/3rds format clearly has the potential to be the basis for a compact coupled-rangefinder interchangeable-lens camera - the Barnack camera of the 21st century. Depends on how well the permanently exposed sensor proves to hold up to dust and other environmental threats, long-term.</p>

<p>I can envision a CRF body with, say, 10mm f/2, 15mm f/2, 20mm f/1.4, 25mm f/1.4, 40 f/2 and 50 f/2 lens. The extra DoF that makes screen focusing a headache would be a plus for a rangefinder, since the base length could be shorter - no need to handle 50 f/1, 75 f/1.4 or 90 f/2 lenses.</p>

[john tonai]

<p>Andy, I've been using tabbed focus lenses on my G1 and they work just as fast as on the rangefinder since I scale focus, just as I do with my Leica as a street camera. However, that being said, you are right-in the same way that when people call the G1 a DSLR. People have to understand why improper terminology will just confuse beginners.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Peter called it a <strong>RAGEFINDER</strong> . Maybe because it is the current rage and it has a finder?</p>

[jack_lo_..._t_o]

<p>It might be the camera in the digital realm that replaces Leica. & maybe that's what the designers have in mind. It has all the right traits (xcept an rf) & a larger sensor than the G10 and the p6100, the Ricoh-but not the DP-1.</p>

[fjords]

<p>Yehh... Andy Piper... You have missed something... Kern Paillard macro switar 26mm @ f/1.1, iso 400, 1/500 sec....Pannasonic G!</p>

<p><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2141/3536680932_7beecb12d0_o.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p> </p>

[waltz]

<p>Hmm...let me guess...you pre-focused on the barrel and waited for the rider to come even with it. Not exactly what Andy's talking about.</p>

[Brad_]

Nice one, John. Have really been digging your horse pix you've been posting for awhile...

[vivek iyer]

<p>Hey John, Andy is right. Fuzzy and dark pics from this <em>rage</em> finder<em>.</em></p>

<p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3450837212_d43caa0e89_o.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="600" /><br>

Pann<strong>i</strong> sonic G1, Navitar 25/0.95 @ f/0.95, 1/20s, ISO400.</p>

[fjords]

<p>Thanks Brad...</p>

<p>Yehh WaLt...let me quess...I haven't sEEn anY dudes packin' M's and NoctiLuxes at the rodeos these daYs ... if I see one... he must be a <em>photo journalist</em> ...</p>

[fjords]

<p>Vivek... don't get mE start'd on fuZZy pics...</p>

<p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3600/3555300749_9486792c03_o.jpg" alt="" /><br>

G1...Switar 26mm @ 1.1 x 0.65 wide converter...</p>

[vivek iyer]

<p>Well it has started. I plead guilty, John.<br>

<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3303/3480945442_87c4d570c6_o.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="525" /><br>

<em>G1 and custom made c-mount 12.5mm f/1.4 lens (whole frame).</em></p>

<p>yeah, I am unashamed to take my gear close to filth, being no photo journalist..</p>

<p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3537/3480953144_3793852446_o.jpg" alt="" width="525" height="700" /><br>

G1 and 12.5mm lens @ f/4 at ~ 0.7m.</p>

[harvey_edelstein1]

<p>And Samsung is coming up with the NX that is APS-C and only a 1.5x crop factor hopefully this year.<br>

That would mean it could use Leica M WA lenses without turning them all to standard lenses and short teles.</p>

[michael s.]

<p>Good stuff, John and Vivek.</p>

<p>Harvey mentioned an upcoming Samsung, but don't forget about Olympus, whose micro four-thirds camera announced for Summer 2009 release might -- but might not -- look like this:</p>

<p>http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08092208olympus_micro_four_thirds.asp</p>

<p>Looking around, I also found Bob Atkins' comments on the approach (with a couple illustrative diagrams):</p>

<p>http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/micro_four-thirds.html</p>

<p> </p>

[ray .]

<p>Unless you want to get longer with Leica glass, I don't see what the big deal is. Rangefinder, SLR, and point&shoot still covers it for me. How cutting edge is paper cups with an arbitrary out of focus background? Bravado over equipment looks kind of silly then. The revolution should be in the kind of seeing it lends.</p>

[steve_mareno]

<p>I used to see these serious pronouncements over at RFF. I don't get it either Ray. If you want to shoot Leica glass on a digital you can get lots better results using a Canon, Pentax, or Nikon DSLR because of it's bigger sensor. You can see what's going on as well, since what you see the camera is seeing. You'll have to do some adjustments on your metering, but that still has to beat a G1 w/ it's EVF and noisier sensor. It still ain't an M8, which is just as well in my book. If you want to shoot Leica glass, for goodness sakes get a film camera (ideally a Leica) and take advantage of that classic Leica look.</p>

[vivek iyer]

<blockquote>

<p>How cutting edge is paper cups with an arbitrary out of focus background?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>When there are no "reviews" to read up from the grandmasters, one has to make do with such real shots.<br>

That shot showed me the various aspects of the lens which are of real significance to me.</p>

<p>The same setup in use.</p>

<p><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3547/3502344070_3cd2170795_o.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="525" /></p>

<p>I will do a comparison shoot out if I buy the 24/1.4 Summilux. ;)</p>

[fjords]

<p>Yehh... Steve Mareno... Try mounting a NoctiLux on a Canon or Nikon, teLL me how it works out for ya...or better yet try focusing it on the M-8...a noctilux view'D in the G1 EVF is one stop brighter than you can see thru thr M's pEEp hoLe...Ignorance is bLiss...</p>

[harvey_edelstein1]

<p>A lot of M users who either haven't the money for an M8 or wouldn't think of spending that much for their hobby camera are using the G1 and happy.<br>

The elimination of the mirror mechanism and live view via the high definition lcd viewfinder works well for focusing even in low light, the size of the image in the vf is large and clear. Many like it better in low light than rangefinders since the framing is very accurate.<br>

My only problem is like Bob Atkins says in the above article , the U4/3 are way noisier and the crop factor is too steep comparred to even an APS-C camera like the Nikon D90 which can take a better picture. When Samsung comes out with the NX I hope it has the ability to take M lenses without them all turning from wide angle to 50mm or longer lenses. One thing I like is the concept of no mirror to slap and vibrate the camera. <br>

It would be nice to have in camera IS that would make hand holding in low light even better. With our fast M lenses and IS we would be able to take pictures by hand that could only be taken using a tripod before. A larger APS-C sensor will give better low noise images at iso 1600 and above.</p>

[robert lee]

<p>Ahhh, check this out: http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/products/dslr/special/pen50th/pen/</p>

<p>I've held off on a Panasonic G1 solely because of the Olympus promises and teasers. Let's see if they can deliver this summer.</p>

[aaron_d.]

<p>Harvey, I think you may be dissappointed with any upcoming m4/3 cameras. Regardless of their other features, they are going to have the same effect on the effective focal length of your lenses. Same size sensor = same crop factor.</p>

<p>Aaron</p>

[harvey_edelstein1]

<p>My only problem is like Bob Atkins says in the above article , the U4/3 are way noisier and the crop factor is too steep comparred to even an APS-C camera like the Nikon D90 which can take a better picture. When Samsung comes out with the NX I hope it has the ability to take M lenses without them all turning from wide angle to 50mm or longer lenses<br>

That's my view too. The NX is going to be an APS-C camera thats a lot less crop factor.</p>

[rgeorge911]

<p>I agree that the crop factor's a little extreme. Noise is certainly worse than a larger sensor. However, I'm finding that for a travel kit, the G1's pretty darned good. I have the kit lens and the 45-200, and they fit in a tiny bag. The image quality's sure not bad. I find at iso400 the noise is noticeable (sure not going to replace my D700), but it's a pretty nice tool. I think it's capable of professional quality prints up to 11x14 at least, with a little NeatImage NR.<br /> <br /> The Leica adapter's on its way. The crop factor will be a challenge for my lens set, but I guess a 35mm acting as 70mm won't be so bad. I'm also very much looking forward to the promised 20mm f1.7 for micro four-thirds format. That would round out the kit very nicely.<br /> Here's a couple shots:<br /> <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3571/3572178202_1c94109b98.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="500" /> <br /> iso 400, heavy crop from "full frame"<br /> <img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/3569411081_20c0877f48.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="400" /> <br /> iso 400, less heavy crop</p>

<p>I didn't buy this camera for nature, that's just what I've had at hand since getting it a few days ago. I think for travel / street, the quality will be just fine (I usually print ~8x10 for that stuff). I'm also looking forward to seeing some B&W conversions. So many things to shoot, so little time...<br>

<br /> Reed</p>

[carol_christopher]

<p>I now have the adapter for the R lenses, the M lens adapter is on its way. But the R lenses have made a world of difference! I was not impressed by the little kit zoom. The crop factor is a bit of a pain, I am using my 19mm for a 38mm on the G1.But the pictures are a lot better, still not M8 but very acceptable. I am anxious to see results from the 15mm on the G1 once I get the proper adapter. They sent me an EOS by mistake, but very helpful in getting it sorted out. I have EOS lenses, but they have no aperture ring, so they have to be used wide open.</p>